The Ilinden Uprising

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    replied
    Originally posted by Albo View Post
    ...I don't know all the sources that Historians like Popovski and Nexhipi have read.......
    You don't seem to know any of them, which further goes to show how uninformed you are about the subject.
    .....maybe try contacting Vlado Popovski and ask him why he says what he says about the Albanian involvement in Krushevo..
    I don't need to, because, for the umpteenth time, I have never denied that there may have been some ethnic Albanians that supported the Macedonian revolutionaries, just like you shouldn't deny that the overwhelming majority of ethnic Albanians were against them.
    It's know and common knowledge that Albanians provided and sold weapons throughout the Balkans during that time, prior and even today.
    You initially stated that ethnic Albanians provided "most of the weapons" for the Macedonian revolutionaries in Krusevo. Now you're backtracking and revising your argument by stating that they merely sold weapons throughout the Balkans. Can you see why it's hard to take you seriously? You make a point, you're called out on it, then you change your story. If you didn't exaggerate in the first place you wouldn't be in this predicament.
    So it's not unfeasible to believe that the cherry cannon was provided or built or sold by Albanians.....
    Without proper research, basing feasibility on scattered references you've come across on Albanian websites is useless. I believe that Macedonians built those cannons - this perspective is supported by Nikola Kirov-Majski, the co-author of the Krusevo Manifesto and cousin of Nikola Karev (leader of the Krusevo Republic). Kirov-Majski states that the cannons were built by people from the village of Selce. The inhabitants of that village were all adherents of the Exarchate, which means they were Macedonians, not ethnic Albanians.
    ...does into really matter?
    Does the truth matter, he asks? Read the name of this forum.
    Now as for Pitu Guli being Half Albanian .. Again most say he was a Vlach who's family originated from Voskopja in Albania and migrated to Krushevo after the city was burned down. That's where most Vlachs in Krushevo originate from.. Now Voskopja was a Vlach majority city .. but it also has Albanian "Mahalas" neighborhoods which were made up of Orthodox Albanians. Mixed marriages were and still are very common in southern Albania between Vlachs and Orthodox Albanians..Now the when Popovski says there are indications that he was Albanian or partially Albanian it would be from the fact that the Vlachs of Krushevo originate from Voskopja and that where maybe some mixed heritage..
    That's nothing but speculation. Vlachs were living among Macedonians for over a century before Krusevo rose up in revolt. I could just as easily speculate that Pitu Guli was half Macedonian. But I won't, because I don't know that and neither do you. Sources from the time indicate he was a Vlach. You came here calling him "half Albanian" as a matter of fact and now, again, you're changing your story by saying that "maybe" there was some ethnic Albanian in his heritage. Honestly, get a hold of yourself, you're all over the place.
    But having said that.. there is another theory that says that communist Historians overplayed the role that Albanians played to create a stronger unified relations between Albanians and Macedonians. This also holds some weight ..
    Sure, that holds some weight.
    It's does mention 20, 20, 20.. read it again...
    I feel like I am interacting with a child here. I read it. Yes, it indicates that there were 20-20-20 in the council. It says nothing about Albanians being one group of those 20's, which is what you were erroneously trying to insinuate earlier. Get it?
    I never said Albanains were a majority in the movement...I said they were a factor and they should be remembered as that.. nothing more nothing less...
    They were a tiny factor of support where it concerns the Macedonian revolutionaries in Krusevo. They were a significant factor of support where it concerns the Ottomans in general. That's how they will be remembered.
    The Albanian Renaissance unlike other Balkan people wasn't exclusively religious based.
    Albanian "renaissance", nice. Do you think the Shkendija supporters who chant "ubi, ubi, ubi kaura" (kill, kill, kill the infidel) are inclusive of Catholic and Orthodox Christian Albanians?
    I'm referring to Albanian elites that were a combination of Muslims (Sunni & Bekteshi) Catholics and Orthodox....These elites were mostly members of high positions in the Ottoman Empire...
    Are you suggesting that Catholic and Orthodox Christian Albanians held high positions in the Ottoman Empire?
    Well everyone in the Balkans knows that Albanains have historically been recognized as wearers of white skull caps..
    Yes, but you can't equate the specific look of a skull cap with just any white hat. Just because some of the people in that old picture happen to be wearing white hats doesn't automatically mean they're Albanians. Unless of course you can clearly identify which one's are actually wearing the white skull cap, which is what I asked you before.

    Leave a comment:


  • Albo
    replied
    Originally Posted by Albo View Post
    Vlado Popovski is a well known Macedonian HISTORIAN... He knows and has read more on the history of Macedonia than probably everyone in this forum... his comments hold weight..

    Aren't you at all curious on what sources such people base their comments on? Don't you want to read these sources and form an opinion of your own to compare and validate that of others? Or is independent thought not familiar to you? As a historian, of course Popovski's comments hold some weight, but if the level of your curiosity or intellect allows you to go no further than to read other people's opinions, then at least show me where he says that ethnic Albanians provided "most" of the weapons and the "cherry wood cannon" to the Macedonian revolutionaries?
    Buddy.. I don't know all the sources that Historians like Popovski and Nexhipi have read to mention what they have about the Albanians being a factor in the illinden Uprising..
    Over the years I've read bits and pieces about that period and to be honest I haven't studied it thoroughly due to the fact that there isn't a lot of documented history in English or Albanian that I've come across,

    The parts that I've mentioned are what I've read and what others (Historians) have said.. now I don't take what all Historians say as gospel.. but they obviously have reasons for what they say based on some sort of source.. maybe try contacting Vlado Popovski and ask him why he says what he says about the Albanian involvement in Krushevo..

    It's know and common knowledge that Albanians provided and sold weapons throughout the Balkans during that time, prior and even today.

    So it's not unfeasible to believe that the cherry cannon was provided or built or sold by Albanians (does into really matter?) But I've read it in the past also mainly from Albanian sources to be honest.

    Now as for Pitu Guli being Half Albanian .. Again most say he was a Vlach who's family originated from Voskopja in Albania and migrated to Krushevo after the city was burned down. That's where most Vlachs in Krushevo originate from.. Now Voskopja was a Vlach majority city .. but it also has Albanian "Mahalas" neighborhoods which were made up of Orthodox Albanians. Mixed marriages were and still are very common in southern Albania between Vlachs and Orthodox Albanians..
    Now the when Popovski says there are indications that he was Albanian or partially Albanian it would be from the fact that the Vlachs of Krushevo originate from Voskopja and that where maybe some mixed heritage..

    But having said that.. there is another theory that says that communist Historians overplayed the role that Albanians played to create a stronger unified relations between Albanians and Macedonians. This also holds some weight ..

    Now as an Albanian we obviously don't see the Illinden Uprising as a major part of our history.. We have many similar, smaller and larger movements and batttles against the ottomans in our history that we study and celebrate.
    Eg
    The league of Prizren



    Or

    The Dervish Cara Uprising ( That for a time liberated Skopje) and many other Albanian majority regions.



    Or

    The Albanian revolt of 1910




    Here have a read here.. more mention of the 20,20,20 council..
    I did. It says nothing about 20 Albanians.
    Quote:
    It was a multi ethnic Uprising..
    From the same link you provided: "Pitu Gule, a noted martyr of the Krusevo Republic, was a Vlach.........One should not, however, over-estimate the multi-ethnic character of the Ilinden rising. IMRO was an overwhelmingly Slavic movement….". Quick question - do you even read the sources you post or do you just do a quick google search based on a few key words?
    It's does mention 20, 20, 20.. read it again...

    Yes I did read that part.. I never said Albanains were a majority in the movement...
    I said they were a factor and they should be remembered as that.. nothing more nothing less...


    ....that was a reflection of the population than and as it is today.
    Rubbish. Population statistics clearly depict ethnic Albanians as a tiny minority in Krusevo.
    I was referring to Macedonia as a whole...
    The figures you mentioned earlier were for the city only..

    But even today the Krushevo municipality is about 20% Albanian maybe more since no census has been done since 2001...


    It would have gained more support from the Albanians but it was rejected by the Albanian elites at the time as being disorganized and underfunded..

    Which Albanian elites are you referring to, the overwhelming majority whose ancestors turned to Islam? If I was to guess I would say that most of them were much happier serving their Turkish masters in a position of privilege as opposed to joining forces with that oppressed mass they once may have called their Christian brethren.
    I'm referring to Albanian elites that were a combination of Muslims (Sunni & Bekteshi) Catholics and Orthodox..
    The Albanian Renaissance unlike other Balkan people wasn't exclusively religious based.

    These elites were mostly members of high positions in the Ottoman Empire.. most were far more educated and willing to sacrifice than the illiterate and incompetent corrupt "leaders" we have today.

    That picture was taken from some distance and there are probably 150 fighters in it, give or take. How many of them are wearing the skull-cap? Or is anybody with a white hat an Albanian?
    Well everyone in the Balkans knows that Albanains have historically been recognized as wearers of white skull caps.. ( belo kapce) as Serbs and Macedonians call it.

    You know, when you first joined this forum and starting posting all sorts of stuff in a flurry, I was prepared to give you the benefit of doubt in the hope that there was some substance behind it all. I am now starting to realise that you are little more than a light-weight who hasn't really done any real research himself and likes to parrot fanciful stories rather than present his perspectives with a level of credibility.
    Ouchh..!!!
    Just when I thought we were getting along :-p
    Look I don't have time locate sources from 1903 of obscure questionable events that don't hold much bearing on the situation on the ground today...

    I would rather discuss how Macedonia can be improved by working together and dealing with each others grievances...
    One would be much more patriotic to work towards getting rid of the people that have brought Macedonia to this situation that it's in..

    People like Gruevski and Ahmeti are toxic to Macedonia.. this should be where energies are focused...

    Leave a comment:


  • Soldier of Macedon
    replied
    Originally posted by Albo View Post
    Vlado Popovski is a well known Macedonian HISTORIAN... He knows and has read more on the history of Macedonia than probably everyone in this forum... his comments hold weight..
    Aren't you at all curious on what sources such people base their comments on? Don't you want to read these sources and form an opinion of your own to compare and validate that of others? Or is independent thought not familiar to you? As a historian, of course Popovski's comments hold some weight, but if the level of your curiosity or intellect allows you to go no further than to read other people's opinions, then at least show me where he says that ethnic Albanians provided "most" of the weapons and the "cherry wood cannon" to the Macedonian revolutionaries? Where does he say that Pitu Guli is half ethnic Albanian and that 20 Albanians were part of the parliament in Krusevo?
    Here have a read here.. more mention of the 20,20,20 council..
    I did. It says nothing about 20 Albanians.
    It was a multi ethnic Uprising..
    From the same link you provided: "Pitu Gule, a noted martyr of the Krusevo Republic, was a Vlach.........One should not, however, over-estimate the multi-ethnic character of the Ilinden rising. IMRO was an overwhelmingly Slavic movement….". Quick question - do you even read the sources you post or do you just do a quick google search based on a few key words?
    ....that was a reflection of the population than and as it is today.
    Rubbish. Population statistics clearly depict ethnic Albanians as a tiny minority in Krusevo.
    It would have gained more support from the Albanians but it was rejected by the Albanian elites at the time as being disorganized and underfunded..
    Which Albanian elites are you referring to, the overwhelming majority whose ancestors turned to Islam? If I was to guess I would say that most of them were much happier serving their Turkish masters in a position of privilege as opposed to joining forces with that oppressed mass they once may have called their Christian brethren.
    Repost of earlier picture where Albanians wearing White scull caps are part of the brigade

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kru%...uli%2C1903.jpg
    That picture was taken from some distance and there are probably 150 fighters in it, give or take. How many of them are wearing the skull-cap? Or is anybody with a white hat an Albanian? You know, when you first joined this forum and starting posting all sorts of stuff in a flurry, I was prepared to give you the benefit of doubt in the hope that there was some substance behind it all. I am now starting to realise that you are little more than a light-weight who hasn't really done any real research himself and likes to parrot fanciful stories rather than present his perspectives with a level of credibility. Do yourself a favour - either start properly researching this topic or stop wasting my time, because sooner rather than later I am going to get tired of asking you the same questions over and over again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Albo
    replied
    Vlado Popovski is a well known Macedonian HISTORIAN... He knows and has read more on the history of Macedonia than probably everyone in this forum... his comments hold weight..

    Here have a read here.. more mention of the 20,20,20 council..
    It was a multi ethnic Uprising.. that was a reflection of the population than and as it is today.
    It would have gained more support from the Albanians but it was rejected by the Albanian elites at the time as being disorganized and underfunded..


    https://books.google.com.au/books?id...ouncil&f=false


    Repost of earlier picture where Albanians wearing White scull caps are part of the brigade

    Leave a comment:


  • Soldier of Macedon
    replied
    Originally posted by Albo View Post
    Look the fact that Albanians were involved in the Krushevo republic Uprising has never been questioned..
    They were a factor on both sides.. either fighting as rebels or as paid mercenaries on side of the empire...
    Albo, I have never denied that some ethnic Albanians assisted the Macedonian revolutionaries, but much more fought against them. The fact is, you have failed to corroborate any of the 5 assertions you made with actual sources from that period. You will therefore cease repeating these assertions until you finally decide to spend some time to properly research the topic and locate supportive documentation. Right now, what you've said amounts to little more than innuendo randomly picked up from some ill-informed website catering to Albanian delusions. You will not be afforded the privilege of regurgitating that here. Do some proper research. I have. It's a worthy effort.
    Translate this.. commnets from Vlado Popovski!

    http://koha.net/?id=8&arkiva=1&l=110038
    I translated it, it provides no reference to actual sources from the time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Albo
    replied
    Look the fact that Albanians were involved in the Krushevo republic Uprising has never been questioned..
    They were a factor on both sides.. either fighting as rebels or as paid mercenaries on side of the empire...

    Translate this.. commnets from Vlado Popovski!

    Leave a comment:


  • Soldier of Macedon
    replied
    First, the wikipedia extract above doesn't mention anything about "20 Albanians". Second, the next link is just a summary of the writings of a certain Rexhat Nexhipi. Third, the picture of Pitu Guli's brigade is not appearing on screen (you may have to upload it again). Fourth, the last link you posted only indicates the opinion of somebody. I think I was pretty clear in my post. I asked you to provide actual sources either from or near that time to corroborate the following:

    1) Ethnic Albanians provided "most" of the weapons for the uprising in Krusevo
    2) Ethnic Albanians provided the "cherry wood cannon" to the Macedonian revolutionaries
    3) Many ethnic Albanians assisted the Macedonian revolutionaries in Krusevo
    4) Pitu Guli is half ethnic Albanian
    5) 20 Albanians were part of the parliament in Krusevo

    Originally posted by Albo View Post
    Sorry been a bit busy of late and can't really spend too much time responding to everyone on here...
    I can understand that you may be busy, but in future refrain from making such assertions until you're actually prepared to back them up with actual sources from or near that period. It's not that I completely doubt everything you've said (although I find it highly unlikely), but I can't allow you to present such matters as fact when you've failed to provide any supportive evidence. If the sources are in a language you cannot understand then at the very least provide the chapter and page number and I will translate it here.

    Leave a comment:


  • Albo
    replied
    Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
    Can you provide any sources from the time (or close to it) which indicate that ethnic Albanians provided "most" of the weapons and the "cherry wood cannon" to the Macedonian revolutionaries?

    Who are those many? Do you honestly think more fought alongside the Macedonian revolutionaries or against them as Turkish lackeys (i.e. bashibozuks)? What evidence is there that Pitu Guli was "half Albanian" (by that I assume you mean half ethnic Albanian), aside from some claims that his mother came from Albania? Provide actual sources from the time.

    Let's clear something up about Krushevo. It first entered into written record around the middle of the 15th century, and given its name, it was a Macedonian settlement. At the end of the 18th century, there was a significant population influx after Ali Pasha (your fellow ethnic Albanian) decided to destroy Moskopole. Thousands of Vlachs arrived in Krushevo and some Christian Albanians followed. Macedonians from other parts of Macedonia also moved there. Just over a 100 years later, at the beginning of the 20th century and only a few years before the Ilinden Uprising, the Bulgarian ethnographer Vasil K'nchov recorded that Krushevo consisted of 9,350 inhabitants, only 400 of which were Christian Albanians. The rest were about evenly spread between Vlachs and those whom he called "Bulgarians" (adherents of the Exarchate) - but which he himself admits call themselves Macedonians. By such accounts, ethnic Albanians were an insignificant (and Christian) minority in the town compared to Macedonians and Vlachs. In relation to what you wrote above, again, provide an actual source from the time which states that there were "20 Albanians" in the parliament.

    I have read about these assertions from Albanians in the past but none have actually corroborated them with evidence from the period in question. If you could do so it would make for an interesting discussion. If you can't, I would suggest you cease making such claims.
    ========================
    Sorry been a bit busy of late and can't really spend too much time responding to everyone on here...

    =================

    Just a few quick links on the above topic.. I'll post more in the future

    Amongst the various ethno-religious groups (millets) in Kruševo a Republican Council was elected with 60 members - 20 representatives from each one: Aromanians (Vlachs); Slav-, Vlach- and Albanian-speaking Greek Patriarchists and Macedonian Bulgarians (Exarchists).[7][8][9][10][11] The Council also elected an executive body - the Provisional Government, with six members (2 from each mentioned group),[12] whose duty was to promote law and order and manage supplies, finances, and medical care.



    ========÷÷================

    Without albanians, Krusevo Republic would have been forgotten.

    Free Online Library: Without albanians, Krusevo Republic would have been forgotten.(Koha (daily)) by "Albanian Press in Macedonia"; News, opinion and commentary General interest


    ===========================
    You can see here in Pitu Gulis brigade all those wearing the traditional Albanian white skull cap are Albanian!



    ===========================
    Page 225 also mentions the 20 20 20 split in the parliament..

    This book examines the relationship between national history, identity, and politics in twentieth-century Macedonia. It focuses on the reverberating power of events surrounding an armed uprising in August 1903, when a revolutionary organization challenged the forces of the Ottoman Empire by seizing control of the mountain town of Krusevo. A century later, Krusevo is part of the Republic of Macedonia and a site for yearly commemorations of 1903. In the course of the intervening hundred years, various communities have vied to establish an authoritative account of what happened in 1903--and to weave those events into a longer and wider narrative of social, cultural, and national evolution. Keith Brown examines how Krusevo's residents, refugees, and exiles have participated--along with scholars, journalists, artists, bureaucrats, and politicians--in a conversation about their vexed past. By tracing different approaches to understanding, commemorating, and narrating the events of 1903, he shows how in this small mountain town the "magic of nationalism" by which destiny is written into particular historical events has neither failed nor wholly succeeded. Stories of heroism, self-sacrifice, and unity still rub against tales of treachery, score settling, and disaster as people come to terms with the legacies of imperialism, socialism, and nationalism. The efforts of Krusevo's successive generations to transcend a past of intercommunal violence reveal how rival claims to knowledge and truth acquire vital significance during rapid social, economic, and political change.

    Leave a comment:


  • Soldier of Macedon
    replied
    Originally posted by Albo
    At every stage of the modern history of Macedonia Albanians have been involved .. eg, Krushevo Republic, (where most of the weapons were supplied by Albanians..........the cherry wood cannon was supplied by Albanians.....
    Can you provide any sources from the time (or close to it) which indicate that ethnic Albanians provided "most" of the weapons and the "cherry wood cannon" to the Macedonian revolutionaries?
    .....many fought alongside the Half Albanian half Vlachs Pitu Guli
    Who are those many? Do you honestly think more fought alongside the Macedonian revolutionaries or against them as Turkish lackeys (i.e. bashibozuks)? What evidence is there that Pitu Guli was "half Albanian" (by that I assume you mean half ethnic Albanian), aside from some claims that his mother came from Albania? Provide actual sources from the time.
    .....the Krushevo republics parliament was to be made up of 60 members 20 Macedonians 20 Albanians and 20 Vlachs.
    Let's clear something up about Krushevo. It first entered into written record around the middle of the 15th century, and given its name, it was a Macedonian settlement. At the end of the 18th century, there was a significant population influx after Ali Pasha (your fellow ethnic Albanian) decided to destroy Moskopole. Thousands of Vlachs arrived in Krushevo and some Christian Albanians followed. Macedonians from other parts of Macedonia also moved there. Just over a 100 years later, at the beginning of the 20th century and only a few years before the Ilinden Uprising, the Bulgarian ethnographer Vasil K'nchov recorded that Krushevo consisted of 9,350 inhabitants, only 400 of which were Christian Albanians. The rest were about evenly spread between Vlachs and those whom he called "Bulgarians" (adherents of the Exarchate) - but which he himself admits call themselves Macedonians. By such accounts, ethnic Albanians were an insignificant (and Christian) minority in the town compared to Macedonians and Vlachs. In relation to what you wrote above, again, provide an actual source from the time which states that there were "20 Albanians" in the parliament.

    I have read about these assertions from Albanians in the past but none have actually corroborated them with evidence from the period in question. If you could do so it would make for an interesting discussion. If you can't, I would suggest you cease making such claims.

    Leave a comment:


  • The LION will ROAR
    replied
    Светскиот печат за Македонија по Илинденското востание



    Во Крушевскиот манифест јасно и недвосмислено е потенцирано залагањето на македонските востаници за правилна војна за ослободување на Македонија и за ненапаѓање на турското цивилно население:

    „Ние не дигнафне пушка протиф вас - това би било страм за нас; ние не дигнафне пушка протиф мирнио, трудољубивио и чеснио турски нарот, шчо се прерануат, како нас со крваф пот - тој јет наш брат и со него сне живејале и пак сакаме да живејме; ние не излегофне да колиме и да грабиме, да палиме и да крадиме - доста ни сет зулумите на безбројните деребеи по нашата сирота и окрвавена Македонија; ние не излегофне да порисјанчуваме и да бесчестиме вашите мјаки и сестри, жени и ќерки; требит да знајте оти вашио имот, вашио живот, вашата вера и вашата чес ни сет толку скапи, колку шчо ни сет скапи нашите.“

    За жал, ваквите високо цивилизациски и хумани вредности на македонските востаници не ги делеле османлиските војници. Па, така по крвавото задушување на Илинденското востание, османлиската армија масакрирала огромен број на невооружени македонски цивили и запалила повеќе македонски села.

    Ваквата тажна слика за случувањата по Илинденското востание е опишана во весникот „Colonist“ од 21. август 1903 година:

    „Турските трупи, кои скоро го окупираа Крушево, го масакрираа целото христијанско население во градот, вклучително и вработените во тутунската компанија, која е под европска контрола.“

    Оваа статија не претставува никаков исклучок. Статии со слична содржина за убиства на македонски невооружени цивили од страна на османлиската војска можат да се најдат во повеќе светски весници од тој период. Во францускиот весник „La Vie Populaire“ од 25. септември 1903 година, целата насловна страна е посветена на ваквите крвави настани (слика долу лево).

    На самата илустрација може да се види како османлиската војска поминува покрај масакрираните тела на македонското цивилно население на Крушево. Под илустрацијата стои текстот:

    „Прикази (се однесува на илустрацијата) направени од еден од нашите дописници, од главните улици на несреќното место (Крушево), по убиствата и грабежите од страна на турските војници...“

    По повод убиствата на недолжното македонско цивилно население, големиот македонски револуционер Даме Груев ќе испрати протестно писмо до Хилми Паша во кое директно ќе му порача:

    „...Да се прекинат насилствата, грабежите и колежот на мирното немухамеданско население...Впрочем, вие сте должни да водите со нас правилна војна.“

    За ова пишува и во престижниот американски весник „The New York Times“ (2. септември, 1903):

    „... Водачот на револуционерите, Даме Груев, со писмо побара од Хилми Паша да ги прекине варварските акти на турските војници и башибозукот ...“

    Во истата статија се опишани и дел од овие варварски акти врз недолжното македонско цивилно население:

    „...Турските војници во ноќта го масакрираа целото население од 180 мажи и 200 жени. Турците, исто така, го масакрираа населенитето на селото Велеси.“

    *Под називот „турски војници“ се мисли на војници на Отоманската Империја.

    Александар Стеванов, објавено и на Македонска Нација



    Google translator :-
    World press for Macedonia after the Ilinden Uprising
    In Krusevo Manifesto clearly and unambiguously outlined the efforts of the Macedonian insurgents for proper war for liberation of Macedonia and the Turkish non-aggression civilian population:

    "We have not raised against you - That would be our shame, we have not raised against the peaceful diligent and honest Turkish people who, who feeds, like us by blood and sweat - he is our brother and lived with him and then we to live, we have not risen to slaughter and plunder, to set fire to kradime - rather we set the whims of countless derebei after our poor and stained Macedonia; we have not risen to convert to Christianity and disgrace your mothers and sisters, wives and daughters ought to know that your property, your lives, your faith and your honor are so expensive, how expensive who feeds us set our own. "

    Unfortunately, these highly civilized and humane values ​​of the Macedonian insurgents do not share the Ottoman troops. Well, so after the bloody suppression of the Ilinden Uprising, the Ottoman army massacred a large number of unarmed civilians and set fire to Macedonian several Macedonian villages.

    Such a sad picture of the events after the Ilinden uprising is described in the newspaper "Colonist" of 21. August 1903:

    "Turkish troops, who occupied nearly Krusevo, massacred the entire Christian population of the city, including employees of the tobacco company, which has been under European control."

    This article is no exception. Articles with similar content for the murder of Macedonian unarmed civilians by Ottoman Army can be found in many world newspapers of that period. The French newspaper "La Vie Populaire" by 25. September 1903, the entire front page is devoted to such bloody events (photo below left).

    In the illustration can be seen as the Ottoman army passing masakriranite bodies of Macedonian civilians in town. Under standing illustration text:

    "Displays (refer to illustration) made by one of our correspondents, the main streets of unfortunate place (Krusevo) after killing and looting by the Turkish troops ..."

    On the occasion of the murder of innocent Macedonian civilian population, the great Macedonian revolutionary Dame Gruev will send a protest letter to Hilmi Pasha which will directly told:

    "... To stop the violence, looting and slaughter of peaceful nemuhamedansko population ... Actually, you are obliged to keep us regular war."

    This writes the prestigious American newspaper "The New York Times" (September 2, 1903):

    "... The leader of the revolutionaries, Dame Gruev, letter asked Hilmi Pasha to stop the barbaric acts of the Turkish soldiers and bashibozukot ... "

    The same article described some of these barbaric acts against innocent Macedonian civilian population:

    "... Turkish soldiers in the night massacred the entire population of 180 men and 200 women. Turks also massacred naseleniteto village Veles. "

    * Under the title "Turkish soldiers" think of the soldiers of the Ottoman Empire.

    Alexander Stevanov published the Macedonian Nation

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    replied

    Jews also took part in the liberation movement against Ottoman rule. A great number of Macedonian Jews participated in the Ilinden-Preobrazhenie Uprising. One of the most notable participants was Rafael Moshe Kamhi who led one of the rebel groups. It was him who took part in the early activities of the movement under the nickname Skandereg (Skender-beg). He headed a unit in Debar during the uprising of 1903.[21] Mentes Kolomonos, Santo Aroesti, the Muson brothers and Avram Nisan are other known participants in the uprising who collected weapons and provided rebels with money.,[22][23]

    ……..a great number of Jews participated in the “Ilinden” uprising of the Macedonian people (1903) and it was Rafael M. Kamhi (Skender-beg) who led one of the rebel groups.

    There is historical evidence of Jews participating in the Macedonian revolution (Rafael Kamhi was the head of the unit in Debar in the Ilinden Uprising; Mentes Kolomonos, Santo Aroesti, the Muson brothers and Avram Nisan were also participants). Jews also participated in the Young Turk Revolution, and many of them embraced the vision of Kemal Ataturk. In addition, there is evidence of communication between Gjorce Petrov and Theodor Herzl regarding the liberation of Macedonia.

    The development and welfare of the Jewish communities depended on the development of the wider community. So the Jews shared the hard destiny of the Macedonian people and the other minorities, took part in the wars and uprisings, struggled together with the others against economic difficulties and bad weather conditions. They always supported the Macedonian liberation movements to the best of their ability and knowledge.

    In 1903 the Jews took an active part in the great Ilinden Uprising. Thus, [[Raphael Kamhi]] (1870—1969) from Bitola maintained close contact with the leaders of the Uprising and, therefore, was able to hand down important information about that period. His memoirs (handwritten) give evidence of his participation in the preparations for the Uprising and his personal contacts with its leaders Gjorche Petrov, Dame Gruev, Pere Toshev and Gotse Delchev. As he was particularly close to Gjorche Petrov, he enrolled in his company and was charged with the collection of funds, guns and ammunition.

    All Jewish communities in Macedonia had a bias towards the Uprising and contributed to it in one way or another. For example, Mentesh Kamhi supplied it with weapons, the brothers Mush on and Abram Nisan, milkmen from Bitola, often transported guns and othei necessities; Santo Aruesti collected money and Peris provided the companies with guns and medical supplies. The Uprising was also supported by Jews from other cities, the greatest help coming from the Salonica Jews.

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  • Daskalot
    replied
    Is there a pdf version available or is the book still available in stores somewhere in the world?

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    replied
    Bump - well worth another read.

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  • indigen
    replied
    SMH,8 Aug 1903 - Telegrams.

    The Balkans
    -------------

    Revolution in Macedonia
    ---
    Repressive Measures
    ---
    London, Aug. 6.

    The Council of Turkish Ministers at Constantinople
    has decided to adopt measures of extreme severity
    to suppress the revolution at Monastir [Bitola], and
    also to employ Albanian troops, which will inevitably
    lead to massacres.

    --------------


    Precautions in Bulgaria.
    ----
    London, Aug. 7.

    The Bulgarian Government is trying to prevent ammunition
    passing the frontier into Macedonia.

    It is feared in Vienna that the Balkan trouble is entering
    into a critical phase.
    ----------

    ARMENIA
    ----
    A Serious Allegation
    ----
    London, Aug. 6.

    The Russian Ambassador to Turkey, M. Zinovieff, has made
    strong representation to the Porte to the effect that the
    Kurds are adopting a menacing attitude, and that the
    authorities are secretly arming the Kurds while endeavouring
    to prove that the Armenians have a revolutionary intention.

    -------------


    SMH, Monday, August 10, 1903

    The Balkans
    ---------

    A Premature Outbreak
    ---
    London, Aug. 7.

    Consular despatches from Monastir [Bitola] state that the
    insurrection broke out a fortnight earlier than was originally
    intended, matters having been precipitated by chiefs of the
    bands concerned in it becoming disconcerted at the preventative
    measures adopted by the authorities....The Porte, owing to the
    impoverishment of the Treasury, is unable to accede to the
    demands of the railway companies for an increase to 20,000
    of the guards detailed for the protection of the railways.
    --------------

    RESERVES INSUBORDINATE
    ------
    London, Aug. 8.

    Turkish Redifs (Army Reserves) in Macedonia are discontented,
    and are insubordinate. Many of them have deserted, and have
    sold their arms to the insurgents.
    ---------------


    THE BALKANS' INSURRECTION
    ---------

    Employment of Bashi Bazouks
    -----
    London, Aug. 9.

    The Bulgarian Government has asked the Powers to influence
    the Porte not to employ the Bashi-Bouzouks in suppressing
    the rebellion in the vilayet of Monastir [Bitola].
    ---------

    SMH, Aug 11, 1903.

    The Balkans Insurrection.
    -----------

    The Powers Pressure.
    ---
    Decisive Actions Urged.
    ---
    London, Aug. 10.

    The "Times" says that since the reform settlement of
    Macedonia pressed upon Turkey by Austria and Russia
    has failed, it is urgently necessary that those two
    Powers should consider whether they ought to longer
    refrain from taking more decisive steps.
    -----------

    OUTBREAK SPREADING
    ---
    London, Aug. 10.

    The insurrection in the Balkans is spreading in the
    direction of Salonika and Uskub [Skopje].
    --------------

    TROOPS FOR MANASTIR [BITOLA]
    ---
    London, Aug. 10.

    Omar Pasha is leading 16 battalions from Presend
    [Prizren, Kosovo] to Monastir [Bitola], and is
    mobilising 24 fresh battalions of reserves in the
    Salonika district.

    ----------

    TWENTY THOUSAND INSURGENTS.
    ----
    WELL-ARMED, MONEY PLENTIFUL.
    ----
    London, Aug. 9.

    Ten thousand insurgents, in four camps, are operating
    in the neighbourhood of Monastir [Bitola], and 10,000
    around Kastoria [Kostur], which is situated 36 miles
    to the south of Monastir [Bitola].
    The insurgents are
    reported to be well armed and to have plenty of money.

    Anticipating the arranged rising by three weeks, the
    insurgents caught the Turks napping.
    -----------

    RUSSIAN CONSUL SHOT.
    ---
    London, Aug. 9.
    A Turkish gendarme yesterday shot M. Rostovsky, the
    Russian Consul at Monastir [Bitola], in an altercation
    arising out of an omission to salute him.


    Last edited by indigen; 10-16-2010, 04:06 AM.

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  • indigen
    replied

    Map of Ethno-Historical Macedonia.

    smh_aug_14_1903_balkan_states_map.jpg

    smh_aug_18_1903_telegrams.jpg
    smh_aug_18_1903_telegrams_b.jpg

    smh_aug_19_1903_telegrams.jpg
    smh_aug_19_1903_telegrams_b.jpg

    smh_aug_20_1903_telegrams.jpg

    smh_aug_21_1903_part_b.jpg
    smh_aug_21_1903_part_c.jpg

    smh_aug_22_1903_telegrams.jpg

    Steam ship Macedonia launched (smh_aug_27_1903.jpg).

    smh_sept_01_1903_telegrams_b.jpg

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