How did Golo Brdo & Mala Prespa come under Albanian cotrol?

[tchaiku]

Modern Macedonian nationalism started before Tito, in 19th century. I don't think people indentified themselves as Macedonians other than gheographicaly before 19th century.

[Amphipolis]

What would be wrong with Macedonians from the republic calling the same language speakers in Northern Greece as Macedonophones? Take off your souvlaki smeared glasses and refresh your perspective.

Because you are a hateful racist wanker, you won't ever be able to grasp this. But -phone is merely a suffix and Macedonophone is perfectly expressed in this manner.

Slavophone suggests someone speaks "slav" and I defy anyone in the world, including pathetic wankers like yourself, to show me the "slav" language. If you know how to speak "slav", you can tell me how to say "Suck on that you retarded monkey" in "Slav".

Nothing is politically wrong. It’s like calling the Vlachs Thessalophones. The fact that the term is unknown suggests you’re trying to introduce it (right now) for your own political reasons.

The Slavic, Slav Macedonian terms were used because foreigners could not classify their language or identity between Serbs and Bulgarians. Historically, the term Bulgarian was also very widely used for both these people and the language.

While even the stupidest of Greeks become offended when you ask for a Turkish coffee instead of a Grik Coffee.

As far as I can see “Turkish coffee” is not only the correct term (historically) but is also legally recognized (by... UNESCO).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_coffee

[Amphipolis]

Most of Greeks in Albania are Vlachs. Nobody here considers them Greeks. It is also believed that they are pretending to be Greeks to get free pensions/money.

I thought they are considered Greeks both universally and officially (under Albanian law).

[tchaiku]

I thought they are considered Greeks both universally and officially (under Albanian law).

Only by law.

[Karposh]

That's not correct, Dimitrija Chupovski's map of Macedonia included Gorica.

I immediately thought of Dimitrija Chupovski's map of Macedonia too VMRO. That has to be the most accurate depiction of ethnic Macedonia at it existed in the late 1800's there is. Besides Gorica, it also includes other Macedonian speaking regions of today's Albania including Golo Brdo and all of the Gora region (i.e. the part in Kosovo and the lesser known part in Albania centred around the mountainous town of Kukes). The only part he left out was Mount Olympus and the Katerini region.

[Karposh]

The paternal great-grandparents of some of my distant cousins in Macedonia were born in Gorica and moved to the village of Trap in Bitola at the beginning of the 20th century.

Just out of curiosity SoM, does the famous Macedonian saying "Baba lazhi, Trap ne lazhi" originate from this village?

[Liberator of Makedonija]

That's not correct, Dimitrija Chupovski's map of Macedonia included Gorica.





So did the French cartologist F. Bianconi


F. Bianconi: Carte commerciale de la province do Macedoine, 1:1,000,000, 48x37 cm. Paris, 1885

There appears to be some debate about this, as it is not included in these maps. The second one being from the Ilinden Organisation in the early 1920s

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Modern Macedonian nationalism started before Tito, in 19th century. I don't think people indentified themselves as Macedonians other than gheographicaly before 19th century.

Agreed.........

[Liberator of Makedonija]

The only part he left out was Mount Olympus and the Katerini region.

Going off what I've seen posted here, I believe those regions were largely Hellenised by the time Cupovski drew this map up so that's probably why.

[Karposh]

Going off what I've seen posted here, I believe those regions were largely Hellenised by the time Cupovski drew this map up so that's probably why.

I realise that LoM but the region is still part of geographic Macedonia. I just think it's interesting that he included all of the Halkidiki peninsular and the island of Thasos but not Mount Olympus.

[Karposh]

There appears to be some debate about this, as it is not included in these maps. The second one being from the Ilinden Organisation in the early 1920s

I think you'll find that the Ilinden Organisation map would have Gorica included within the depicted boundaries. It's not specifically mentioned but it would sit just to the north-west of Kostur or slightly to the south-west of lake Prespa.

[Karposh]

I immediately thought of Dimitrija Chupovski's map of Macedonia too VMRO. That has to be the most accurate depiction of ethnic Macedonia at it existed in the late 1800's there is. Besides Gorica, it also includes other Macedonian speaking regions of today's Albania including Golo Brdo and all of the Gora region (i.e. the part in Kosovo and the lesser known part in Albania centred around the mountainous town of Kukes). The only part he left out was Mount Olympus and the Katerini region.

My apologies everyone. I think I might be mistaken about the town of Kukes having been included within the boundaries of Chupovski's Macedonia (or Kukush, as it is known in the slavophone language) . It just seems a bit too far to the north and it's really difficult to make out some of the names on the map to make absolutely certain. A great part of the Gora region is included however.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

I think you'll find that the Ilinden Organisation map would have Gorica included within the depicted boundaries. It's not specifically mentioned but it would sit just to the north-west of Kostur or slightly to the south-west of lake Prespa.

The other map I attached doesn't seem to have loaded but Gorica is listed outside Macedonia's borders.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

I realise that LoM but the region is still part of geographic Macedonia. I just think it's interesting that he included all of the Halkidiki peninsular and the island of Thasos but not Mount Olympus.

That is odd...

[VMRO]

The other map I attached doesn't seem to have loaded but Gorica is listed outside Macedonia's borders.

Which map was it, usually the maps after 1913 will have been influenced by the geographic borders of Macedonia accepted after the Balkan wars.

Chupovski's map is interesting as the map he drew is what he deemed to be the ethnic and geographical borders of Macedonia.