How did Golo Brdo & Mala Prespa come under Albanian cotrol?

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Interesting that Vasil Kanchov did not include the Sanjak of Görice in his statistics on the ethnography of Macedonia in 1900, but D.M. Brancoff did in his for 1905.

Russian Consul in Bitola, A. Rostkovski in 1897 claimed the total sanjak population was 175,702 and broke down the population as follows:

Albanians: 113,303 (81,262 Muslims and 32,035 Christians)
Slavs [sic]: 38,235 (30,008 Patriarchists and 8,227 Exarchists)

Brancoff's statistics from 1905 claim a total population of 86,471 and broke down the population as follows:

Bulgarians [sic]: 57,400
Muslims: 11,874
Greeks [sic]: 11,075
Koutzovlachs [sic]: 6,122
Albanians (Christian): 0

It should be noted however that Brancoff only included one of the four kazas in the sanjak and I am unsure which and for what reason

[Karposh]

Just out of curiosity SoM, does the famous Macedonian saying "Baba lazhi, Trap ne lazhi" originate from this village?

Not sure, never heard that before. Perhaps in the above saying 'trap' means a pit or a ditch.

Hmmm...That's actually rather awkward SoM. Since you haven't heard of the saying before, I wouldn't blame you if you were to view my question as thinly veiled sarcasm. That's the trouble with electronic messaging unfortunately - the intent can sometimes get lost and even misconstrued as something other than what it was meant to be.

Anyway, I feel like I need to explain . "Baba lazhi, Trap ne lazhi" is definitely a saying which I sometimes use myself although I've never been able to work out what the word trap actually means. Now that I know that there is in fact a village called Trap, I put two and two together and figured that the saying must have come about as a result of the village Trap being renowned for its honesty.

I have no reason whatsoever to doubt that some of your paternal ancestors originate from Gorica.

[Carlin]

Vasil Sterjovski revealed documents of Italian, French and Bulgarian origin, which testify that Macedonians in Albania (namely Gora, Golo Brdo, Vrbnik, etc.) declared themselves as Macedonians since 1923.

URL:

https://vecer.mk/makedonija/sterjovski-gi-pregazi-albancite-i-bugarofilite-vo-zhivo

Please watch the video to see Vasil Sterjovski talk about these documents - note that subtitles are in Macedonian only.

I already posted this here:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3916&page=22

[Liberator of Makedonija]

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/2008/03/14/macedonians-in-the-russian-empire-18th-century/

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/2008/...sia-1763-1765/

Not suggesting no one ever referred to themselves as Macedonian but Macedonian nationalism as we know it today is from the 19th century. This is the case for every nation on this planet, all modern nationalism is a production of 19th and 20th century occurances. I believe it was Friedman who felt that Macedonian nationalism began to emerge in the 1860s with its proto-elements occuring earlier.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Just out of curiosity SoM, does the famous Macedonian saying "Baba lazhi, Trap ne lazhi" originate from this village?

Not sure, never heard that before. Perhaps in the above saying 'trap' means a pit or a ditch.

Modern Macedonian nationalism started before Tito, in 19th century. I don't think people indentified themselves as Macedonians other than gheographicaly before 19th century.

Agreed.........

Check the below links.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/2008/03/14/macedonians-in-the-russian-empire-18th-century/

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/2008/05/04/macedonian-immigration-in-russia-1763-1765/

It’s like calling the Vlachs Thessalophones.

It's nothing like that at all. The -phone ending denotes speech, not geography. Macedonophone means somebody who speaks the Macedonian language. The equivalent term for Vlachs would be Vlachophone (as an exonym). There is no Thessalian ethnic group or language. Don't be a moron.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

This one?

The above map also stretches close to Prishtina and Vranja.

In the south it includes parts of Thessaly and Epirus and Eastwards goes a little further into Thrace.

This one

[VMRO]

It was the map from Macedonian wikipedia.

This one?

The above map also stretches close to Prishtina and Vranja.

In the south it includes parts of Thessaly and Epirus and Eastwards goes a little further into Thrace.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Which map was it, usually the maps after 1913 will have been influenced by the geographic borders of Macedonia accepted after the Balkan wars.

Chupovski's map is interesting as the map he drew is what he deemed to be the ethnic and geographical borders of Macedonia.

It was the map from Macedonian wikipedia.

[VMRO]

You're all wrong, Gorica/Korcha is actually Bulgarian

S'chko Bulgarija

[Niko777]

You're all wrong, Gorica/Korcha is actually Bulgarian

[VMRO]

The other map I attached doesn't seem to have loaded but Gorica is listed outside Macedonia's borders.

Which map was it, usually the maps after 1913 will have been influenced by the geographic borders of Macedonia accepted after the Balkan wars.

Chupovski's map is interesting as the map he drew is what he deemed to be the ethnic and geographical borders of Macedonia.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

I realise that LoM but the region is still part of geographic Macedonia. I just think it's interesting that he included all of the Halkidiki peninsular and the island of Thasos but not Mount Olympus.

That is odd...

[Liberator of Makedonija]

I think you'll find that the Ilinden Organisation map would have Gorica included within the depicted boundaries. It's not specifically mentioned but it would sit just to the north-west of Kostur or slightly to the south-west of lake Prespa.

The other map I attached doesn't seem to have loaded but Gorica is listed outside Macedonia's borders.

[Karposh]

I immediately thought of Dimitrija Chupovski's map of Macedonia too VMRO. That has to be the most accurate depiction of ethnic Macedonia at it existed in the late 1800's there is. Besides Gorica, it also includes other Macedonian speaking regions of today's Albania including Golo Brdo and all of the Gora region (i.e. the part in Kosovo and the lesser known part in Albania centred around the mountainous town of Kukes). The only part he left out was Mount Olympus and the Katerini region.

My apologies everyone. I think I might be mistaken about the town of Kukes having been included within the boundaries of Chupovski's Macedonia (or Kukush, as it is known in the slavophone language) . It just seems a bit too far to the north and it's really difficult to make out some of the names on the map to make absolutely certain. A great part of the Gora region is included however.

[Karposh]

There appears to be some debate about this, as it is not included in these maps. The second one being from the Ilinden Organisation in the early 1920s

I think you'll find that the Ilinden Organisation map would have Gorica included within the depicted boundaries. It's not specifically mentioned but it would sit just to the north-west of Kostur or slightly to the south-west of lake Prespa.