Justinian the Great and General Belisarius

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  • Daskalot
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 4345

    Justinian the Great and General Belisarius

    Isnt this strange?

    What does a Sclavonic general do in the Byzantine Empire? Obviously he must have been a Roman citizen to become this, how did he manage this when he was just about to run down to the Balkans from the Pripet marshes to slaughter all of the native inhabitants of the southern Balkans...... strange is it not?

    Page 479.


    Source: A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology
    By William Smith, 1880, page 479.
    Macedonian Truth Organisation
  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13670

    #2
    Slovak, I would like your opinion on this proposed etymology for Belisarius. Could a variant of the word (t)sar have been used prior to the 10th century in Slavic languages?

    Wikipedia states:


    The hypothesis that he was of Romanized Slavic ancestry, on the grounds that his name is somewhat similar to the Slavic "Beli Tsar" ("White Prince"), has been rejected by contemporary historians, as the word tsar was first used in the 10th century, well after Belisarius' death. Whether the sar- particle nevertheless derives from "Caesar" (as does "Tsar"), or from the earlier etymological roots (sar is "king"/"prince"/"ruler" in various older Semitic languages) is not attested.
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

    Comment

    • Delodephius
      Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 736

      #3
      I heard about the hypothesis that the word "car" [tsar] is older and did not come down to Slavonic from the Caesar or Kesar, that it is of an older IE origin and in fact it originates from the same root that forms a part of the very name Caesar. I think it meant "head", as in leader or ruler. In Sanskrit head is "śir", in English we have a word "sir", and in Slavonic "car"- Tzar. It also reminds of the Sanskrit word for the Sun - "sūrya" and in Slavonic "zora", as the Sun was the highest authority and deity in the ancient world it could be connected to the meaning of "emperor" or the highest of human authorities.

      Similarly, it is today believe that the Slavonic word for king - kral, korol, kralj, krľ, etc. derives from the name of Charlemagne - Karl, in English Charles. But I think it could be of a much older origin deriving from something like the root *kar - "to rule", "to smite". There are no words for a ruler or king in any Slavic language that derive from the IE root *h₃reǵ- (Lat. regere, Gk. ὀρέγω (oregō), Eng. riht/right, Gm. reht/recht, ON rttr, Goth. raihts, Thrac. rhesus, Toch. rk/rk, Arm. arcvi/ardzvi;
      *H₃rēǵ-(H₃n-) / "ruler, king": Skr. राजन् (rājan), Oscan regaturei, Lat. rēx, Gaul. rīx, Ir. rg/rgh, Welsh rhi, Av. raz, Pers. rahst, Alb. radh), unless borrowed, but I couldn't find anything on *kar, so I won't go any further on that.
      अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
      उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
      This is mine or (somebody) elses (is the way) narrow minded people count.
      But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13670

        #4
        Thanks buddy, that's an interesting perspective.
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • Pelister
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 2742

          #5
          Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
          Slovak, I would like your opinion on this proposed etymology for Belisarius. Could a variant of the word (t)sar have been used prior to the 10th century in Slavic languages?

          Wikipedia states:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belisarius#cite_note-0
          I don't like this explanation given on Wiki.

          Given that the morphology and etymology of Caesar, Tsar and Sarius are so close, I would say there has to be a connection there. So it doesn't make much sense to say the term 'Tsar' first appeared in the 10th century. If Tsar is a variant of Caesar or even Sarius and it is very possible then the term has far deeper roots.

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13670

            #6
            I guess I was playing devil's advocate for a bit, but it always pays to look at both sides of the story, regardless of how baseless they can be. I like Slovak's little piece of information, it sounds credible.
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13670

              #7
              Are there any attempts for a Latin etymology for this name?
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • Pelister
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 2742

                #8
                Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                I guess I was playing devil's advocate for a bit, but it always pays to look at both sides of the story, regardless of how baseless they can be. I like Slovak's little piece of information, it sounds credible.
                I agree, Thanks for that.

                All possibilities need to come out. Its better for everyone that way.

                Comment

                • Sarafot
                  Member
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 616

                  #9
                  Probebly Duan Silni was first who was called CAR,Slovenians use CESAR for king or kralj?
                  Ние македонците не сме ни срби, ни бугари, туку просто Македонци. Ние ги симпатизираме и едните и другите, кој ќе не ослободи, нему ќе му речеме благодарам, но србите и бугарите нека не забораваат дека Македонија е само за Македонците.
                  - Борис Сарафов, 2 септември 1902

                  Comment

                  • TrueMacedonian
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 3812

                    #10
                    A similarity I noticed between Alexander and Justinian


                    Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                    Comment

                    • Pelister
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 2742

                      #11
                      I was under the impression that Justinian built many Churches in Macedonia where the language of liturgy, writing and literature was not in Latin, but in Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • Delodephius
                        Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 736

                        #12
                        That happened four centuries later.
                        अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
                        उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
                        This is mine or (somebody) elses (is the way) narrow minded people count.
                        But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13670

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Sarafot View Post
                          Probebly Dušan Silni was first who was called CAR,Slovenians use CESAR for king or kralj?
                          Khan Boris of Bulgaria was the first to use it in the form of TSAR during the 9th century, after accepting the Slavic language and Christian faith as official for his state.

                          Here is more literature regarding the Illyro-Slavic origins of Belisarius.

                          The Life of Belisarius, Lord Mahon, 1848, Preface.

                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            #14

                            Belisarius was probably born in Germane or Germania, a city that once stood on the site of present day Sapareva Banya in south-west Bulgaria. Some suggest that he was of Romanized Slavic ancestry, on the grounds that his name is somewhat similar to the Slavic "Beli Tsar" ("White Prince"), but most contemporary historians disregard this theory as the word tsar was first used in the 10th century, well after Belisarius' death.
                            This is what they base their rejection on, but if we take into consideration Slovak's elaboration above, it makes for a good discussion. I am sure that I have seen in Slavic writings words such as Cesar or Kesar, which means that Tsar could be from an individual strain yet ultimately from the same common origin with the former.

                            It is very interesting to note the repeated Slavic connection made to the two great figures Justinian and Belisarius.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13670

                              #15
                              Some more links citing the Slavic connection.


                              Belisarius, who is thought to be of Slavic origin, began his career in the Roman army as a bodyguard of Justinian.

                              Belisarius was born in Germane, Illyria (modern day Yugoslavia), though we are not sure of the exact date. His family was Slavic in nature, but had lived inside the Empire for a century and were fully Romanized; his name (Beli Tsar) apparently meant "White Prince" in Slavic.

                              No one knows for sure where Belisarius was born, but many experts believe he was born in Germania, an area near Macedonia and Illyria1 (Yugoslavia)2 He was born in 505 AD. As with many people of that age, little is known about Belisarius' childhood. He appears to have been fully Romanized, but his name also seems to mean White Prince in Slavic.

                              Of Slavic background himself, Belisarius is open to all the influences available to him in a multicultural empire.
                              According to author Anatoly T. Fomenko, so-called consensual history is a finly woven magic fabric of intricate lies about events preceding the sixteenth century. There is not a single piece of firm written evidence or artifact that can be reliably and independently traced back earlier than the sixteenth century. The archaeological, dedrochronological, paleographical, and carbon methods of dating ancient sources and artifacts are both non-exact and contradictory. Nearly all of the methods of dating components are blatently untrue!


                              ------------------------------------------


                              Another interesting point is the fact that the Slavic invaders from the Danube areas expanded their power greatly during the reign of Justinian and Belisarius.
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

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