Greek General Demetrios Kallergis on who fought the Turks (1860)

[TrueMacedonian]

Who in the world is this General Kallergis??? Here's a slew of info on him - http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks...87aa4852ea88a1

Who is Nassau William Senior??? - http://www.offalyhistory.com/article...862/Page1.html

[Soldier of Macedon]

Not the real Greeks, but Albanians, Macedonians and foreigners who fought against the Turks! This is another very good source mate, well done, and keep em' coming.

[TrueMacedonian]

Thanks SoM. I think General Kallergis' words speak volumes about the truth of the revolution:

The real Greeks would never have driven out the Turks. They were too degraded even to wish for liberty. For many years after we had achieved our own independence they called the times of Turkish rule 'the good times. ' It was the Albanians and Macedonians and foreigners who fought the Turks.

[George S.]

TM congrats you nailed that myth down with gusto.TM you have proved there is so much evidence out there that will negate all that greek shit there.

[julie]

True macedonian is our awesome myth buster

[TRAVOLTA]

True macedonian is our awesome myth buster

well said julie...

[Daskalot]

Thank you TM, a very valuable source!
Voltron can you please add your insights to this thread.

[Voltron]

Out of courtesy I didnt want to respond to this thread.

In any case, He was probably trying to make a point by having foreigners assist the Siciilan revolution but failed miserably. Also, since when is Sicilian a race ? A feeble race? but Italians in his opinion are a different nationality from Sicilians.
I dont know, but to me this is a sign that the guy is not all there or the book is not right.

[makedonin]

Out of courtesy I didnt want to respond to this thread.

In any case, He was probably trying to make a point by having foreigners assist the Siciilan revolution but failed miserably. Also, since when is Sicilian a race ? A feeble race? but Italians in his opinion are a different nationality from Sicilians.
I dont know, but to me this is a sign that the guy is not all there or the book is not right.

Are you familiar with the Quote:

Massimo D'Azeglio quoted from his memoirs: "L'Italia è fatta. Restano da fare gli italiani " literally: "Italy has been made; now it remains to make Italians", but often reported more colloquially as "We have made Italy. Now we must make Italians."

The quote is supposedly given in the first meeting of the parliament of the newly united Italian kingdom by his predecessor. (source1, source2)

What does it suggests according to you?

Nice find TM.

[Droog]

Just a minor addition: He used the term Macedonians in the context of Aromanians.
If you want to find the term Macedonian used for the Macedonian language etc., you should read some of Androutsos letters.

[Onur]

General Kallergis probably meant the Greeks of Istanbul and their few representatives in Morea when he says "real Greeks".

I also said here several times that if there was people we can call as "Greeks" in 1820s, it was only the Greeks of Istanbul and the ones in Izmir city central, definitely not the ones in central Anatolia or Morea. We all know that central Anatolian Greeks was mostly christian Turks since it`s easily provable with their habits, language, culture and the documents/records of that time. We also know that so called Greeks of Morea was actually Albanians, Vlachs etc. This is also provable with some of their current habits, like their Albanian tongue `till 1930s and their fustanella.

The "real Greeks" of Istanbul was strictly against the creation of Greece in Morea. I remember that some of you asked from me to prove this claim when i wrote that here and i presented you several sources from books, declarations of patriarchy and phanariots from newspapers. In 1821, Istanbul patriarchy has been said that the rebels in Morea are not Greeks but bunch of bandits and deceived peasants.

These "real Greeks" wasn't degraded or something. They were just happy with their lives. The Greeks of Istanbul and Izmir was always rich, respected and they had high status among society by being Greek speaking Romans. On the other hand, the Albanian, Vlach peasants of Morea was poor, jealous about the money and properties of local landlords. Then they had been provoked by the priests and their western European philhellenes who dreamed for the resurrection of ancient Greece since Montesquieu.

That was the case with Romaoi of Istanbul and Izmir in 1821. They only started believe Greece in Morea after 1870s and then they started to work against Ottoman empire after 1890s, only after they realized that Ottoman days was going to be over soon.

[George S.]

voltron a quite a few greeks went to scisily to settle there so who knows??So don't be surprised as to who they really are.
Also i heard that sardinians speak a similar language to macedonians.?Perhaps they are macedonian.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Droog, where in the text does it indicate a reference to the Vlachs, or is that just your take on it?

[Droog]

Droog, where in the text does it indicate a reference to the Vlachs, or is that just your take on it?

The text also doesn't indicate that the reference is about ethnic Macedonians, but we do know that at that time in Greece the term Macedonians was also used about Aromanians among other groups and that Aromanians played a very important role in Greece during and after the revolution, while in the region of Macedonia the movement was virtually non-existent. If you take into account the relations of Kallergis with Albanian(in fact even his wife was Albanian) and Aromanian leaders the conclusion becomes unavoidable.

[TrueMacedonian]

The text also doesn't indicate that the reference is about ethnic Macedonians, but we do know that at that time in Greece the term Macedonians was also used about Aromanians among other groups and that Aromanians played a very important role in Greece during and after the revolution, while in the region of Macedonia the movement was virtually non-existent. If you take into account the relations of Kallergis with Albanian(in fact even his wife was Albanian) and Aromanian leaders the conclusion becomes unavoidable.

Not quite so. Many Macedonians fought in the war for independence. One of them was named Makedonski. Were there Vlachs involved from Macedonia? I don't doubt it. Were there also Macedonians involved? Undeniably.