Paleo-Balkan & Balto-Slavic - Common Proto Language

[Soldier of Macedon]

The Paleo-Balkan tribe known as the damastini lived somewhere in today's Macedonian republic. They were either a Paeonian or Illyrian tribe who eventually became part of Macedonian territory after Phillip II of Macedon defeated the Illyrian ruler Bardyllis. I would like to propose a possible etymology for this word. To begin with, the first part of their name highlighted as damastini, looks identical to the Thracian word for a 'settlement', see below:

http://indoeuro.bizland.com/project/glossary/thra.html

dama ‘settlement, place for settling’ [Old-Ind. dháman- ‘place for dwelling’, Greek thaimós ‘house’].

This also has a cognate in mod. Macedonian and other Slavic language through the word dom which means 'home'.

The second part of their name highlighted as damastini looks extremely similar, if not identical, to a characteristic of Slavic languages. The development of this characteristic was as follows:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4965&page=3

Proto-Slavic kt -> old Maced. sht -> mod. Maced. kj.

So, in old Macedonian (and in some of today's Macedonian dialects interchangeably, including Bulgarian) you have kushta for 'house' and then kukja, also nosht for 'night' and then nokj, etc. In some regards, Proto Balto-Slavic and its derivatives demonstrate more conservative features than Paleo-Balkan words. A complete comparison would be as follows:

damastini (Paleo-Balkan)
domashtini (Old Maced.)
domakjini (Mod. Maced.)

As can be seen, if the cited phonological development is accepted then it gives a perfect match for the plural of the Macedonian word for 'host', which is domakjini. The beginning and the sound change in the second part of the word are the same. Furthermore, the ending of in with the plural ini corresponds to the earlier example cited on this thread, with the Illyrian and Slavic (fem.) adjective endings, both of which become ina, as seen below:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4965&page=7

Scodrina from the Illyrian capital Scodra, an adjectival form that appears on local coins.

........in Slovak and Serbian you can create a possessive adjective by adding -in, -ina or -ino to a feminine noun, which is equivalent to -ov, -ova and -ovo for masculine nouns. For example: Marko > Markova knjiga; Ana > Anina knjiga.

[Delodephius]

Slovak, I extracted this brief sentence from wiki:

A number of spoken Macedonian dialects still retain the 't' at the end of such words. So, for the word 'can', I would say mozhi but I have cousins from other parts of Macedonia that say mozhit. Krste Misirkov also uses such a form in his writings. Isn't this an example of the infinitive in Macedonian?

It could also be a verb ending for third person singular. For example 'pisati' = to write:
1. pišem
2. pišeš
3. piše(t)
Here you can see two different roots, usually called the present and infinitive roots. They originate from the same common root which could be reconstructed, but due to sound changes they evolved differently, hence piš- and pis-. Original should be pis-, since "s" changed into "š" before the front vowel "e". Same is with "mogti" from mog- evolved into mož- in možem, možeš, može(t), etc.

[Delodephius]

The Paleo-Balkan tribe known as the damastini lived somewhere in today's Macedonian republic. They were either a Paeonian or Illyrian tribe who eventually became part of Macedonian territory after Phillip II of Macedon defeated the Illyrian ruler Bardyllis. I would like to propose a possible etymology for this word. To begin with, the first part of their name highlighted as damastini, looks identical to the Thracian word for a 'settlement', see below:

http://indoeuro.bizland.com/project/glossary/thra.html

This also has a cognate in mod. Macedonian and other Slavic language through the word dom which means 'home'.

The second part of their name highlighted as damastini looks extremely similar, if not identical, to a characteristic of Slavic languages. The development of this characteristic was as follows:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4965&page=3

So, in old Macedonian (and in some of today's Macedonian dialects interchangeably, including Bulgarian) you have kushta for 'house' and then kukja, also nosht for 'night' and then nokj, etc. In some regards, Proto Balto-Slavic and its derivatives demonstrate more conservative features than Paleo-Balkan words. A complete comparison would be as follows:

damastini (Paleo-Balkan)
domashtini (Old Maced.)
domakjini (Mod. Maced.)

As can be seen, if the cited phonological development is accepted then it gives a perfect match for the plural of the Macedonian word for 'host', which is domakjini. The beginning and the sound change in the second part of the word are the same. Furthermore, the ending of in with the plural ini corresponds to the earlier example cited on this thread, with the Illyrian and Slavic (fem.) adjective endings, both of which become ina, as seen below:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...?t=4965&page=7

You might be on to something here. The "št" did evolve into different forms over the centuries, in Slovak for example it is "c" (ts), for example moc "power" < mošt, noc "night" < nošt. Another reason why Old Slavonic and the reconstructions of Proto-Slavic should be used when examining the ancient languages of Balkans.

[Soldier of Macedon]

It could also be a verb ending for third person singular. For example 'pisati' = to write:
1. pišem
2. pišeš
3. piše(t)
Here you can see two different roots, usually called the present and infinitive roots. They originate from the same common root which could be reconstructed, but due to sound changes they evolved differently, hence piš- and pis-. Original should be pis-, since "s" changed into "š" before the front vowel "e". Same is with "mogti" from mog- evolved into mož- in možem, možeš, može(t), etc.

I think you're right, because it does seem to relate to the third person. It is unfortunate that those that standardised Macedonian like Koneski excluded several such features from the spoken dialects, which are still alive today.

You might be on to something here. The "št" did evolve into different forms over the centuries, in Slovak for example it is "c" (ts), for example moc "power" < mošt, noc "night" < nošt. Another reason why Old Slavonic and the reconstructions of Proto-Slavic should be used when examining the ancient languages of Balkans.

Thanks mate, and good point regarding Proto-Slavic. I will keep searching for more examples, slowly but surely I am beginning to develop a set of 'principles' that can be followed which help in the understanding of Paleo-Balkan languages through Balto-Slavic. Still much work to be done though.

Osiris, here are some examples of how similar Latin and Gaulish were:
http://www.orbilat.com/Encyclopaedia..._language.html

Slovak, do you think Ligurian forms part of a dialectal continuum which links the proposed Italo-Celtic group? It seems to be close to both Celtic and Latin, but not exactly the same as either.

Recently I have been looking at the word 'Anatolia'. I understand that in Greek it means 'east', but is there a case to be put forth that the actual name itself is Pre-Greek? It has been suggested that the name also means 'sunrise' in Greek, but neither the word for 'sun' or 'rise' seem to corroborate that. I could be wrong, as I have only started to research it. Any thoughts? Could it possibly be related to a Paleo-Balkan language?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Here is something I was looking at recently. The word ezero, which is a cognate in mod. Macedonian for the Illyrian word osseria, shows that the ss is rendered as a z in the former. Similarly, the mod. Macedonian words zlato and zemja have Thracian cognates in salta and semla, which show the devoiced fricative s instead of voiced z. While these are not exclusive characteristics, they are common.

If the above principles were applied to the ancient Macedonian word for a fighting spear, which was sarissa, the word in mod. Macedonian would be rendered as zariza. I found this result interesting, particularly because of the below words present in mod. Macedonian (and other Slavic languages).

zarez - cut, incision
zaraz(a) - to infect, to set in

Also interesting are the Slovak words zaraz and zarazen, which mean to be 'struck by' and 'cut short' respectively. All of the above is an observation that I have not seen made before.

Slovak, in relation to the above, are the Macedonian/Slovak words demonstrating examples of morphology? Is the 'za' at the beginning of the word a prefixation or a part of the stem? The reason I ask is because of the below Thracian words:

balios 'white', [IE *bhel-].

zbel- (from an initial *zibel-) ‘shining; a thunderbolt, a lightning’ [Latv. zibele ‘shining’, zibelęt ‘to flash, to twinkle, to shine’].

In Macedonian one could say bel for 'white', but also izbeli or zabele for 'whiten', or zabelezhi for 'highlight', although 'iz' and 'za' are not the same prefix. The same would apply for other Slavic languages also I would imagine. Not sure if they're related, interested in your thoughts.

[Delodephius]

In some of the words above, like zlato and zemja, they are part of the root, while in zaraziti, zabeležiti, izbeliti they are prefixes.

In Proto-Slavic zlato was zalto due to metathesis (liquid consonants, R and L, switch their positions with a vowel, usually A or O, sometimes E, when between other consonants). Examples: arbъ > rabъ (slave), arvьnъ > ravьnъ (flat), arzьtoka > razьtoka (river delta), ortajь > ratajь (plougher) (however orati (to plough) remained the same because R was followed by a vowel A), armę > ramę (shoulder), alčьnъ > lačьnъ (hungry), orlьja > rolьja (field), olkьtъ > lakьkъ (elbow), oldьja > ladьja (ship), olni > lani (last year), balto > blato (mud), etc. Additonally, the prefix raz-/roz- as in razbiti, razmysliti, razbuditi, etc. was orzь-/arzь.
The word oltarь from Latin altare (altar) was imported into Old Church Slavonic centuries after the metathesis occurred, hence it remained unchanged in Slavic (otherwise it would be latarь).

Therefore when looking at Paleo-Balkan and Proto-Balto-Slavic words it should be understood that they exhibit the forms AL/OL and AR/OR instead of modern LA/LO and RA/RO.

[Po-drum]

In Proto-Slavic zlato was zalto due to metathesis (liquid consonants, R and L, switch their positions with a vowel, usually A or O, sometimes E, when between other consonants). Examples: arbъ > rabъ (slave), arvьnъ > ravьnъ (flat), arzьtoka > razьtoka (river delta), ortajь > ratajь (plougher) (however orati (to plough) remained the same because R was followed by a vowel A), armę > ramę (shoulder), alčьnъ > lačьnъ (hungry), orlьja > rolьja (field), olkьtъ > lakьkъ (elbow), oldьja > ladьja (ship), olni > lani (last year), balto > blato (mud), etc. Additonally, the prefix raz-/roz- as in razbiti, razmysliti, razbuditi, etc. was orzь-/arzь.
The word oltarь from Latin altare (altar) was imported into Old Church Slavonic centuries after the metathesis occurred, hence it remained unchanged in Slavic (otherwise it would be latarь).

Therefore when looking at Paleo-Balkan and Proto-Balto-Slavic words it should be understood that they exhibit the forms AL/OL and AR/OR instead of modern LA/LO and RA/RO.

Indeed, liquids metathesis is very comfortable? way for explanation of unexplainable, especially development of so called Old Slavonic. More characteristic examples are melko, gard..
So my questions are:
Is there such tendency in some other languages?
What are the evidences supporting this theory?

[Delodephius]

Is there such tendency in some other languages?

Only in Slavic languages. Other IE languages preserved the pre-metathestic forms.

What are the evidences supporting this theory?

The obvious fact that Slavic languages have a different position of liquids while other IE languages don't?

My question is, why would this be unexplainable?

[Soldier of Macedon]

In some of the words above, like zlato and zemja, they are part of the root, while in zaraziti, zabeležiti, izbeliti they are prefixes.

Do you think it possible for the anc. Macedonian word 'sarissa' to have had a prefix, eg: sa-rissa?

[Droog]

Do you think it possible for the anc. Macedonian word 'sarissa' to have had a prefix, eg: sa-rissa?

Given that -issa is the suffix: no

[Delodephius]

I don't know SoM, but if Droog says it's a suffix then most likely not.

The metathesis ended somewhere in the 8th century, and it wasn't completed in East Slavic, so Common Slavic language must have still had the older forms like Palaeo-Balkan languages did.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Given that -issa is the suffix: no

You make a point if we are to assume that -issa is the suffix as it is in other words. And although that may seem the most probable in the absence of corroborative evidence for the argument against, it cannot be conclusively proven either.

Just with regard to the word for 'gold', it is interesting how the word in each language below came to its eventual form:

aurum (Latin)
aur (Romanian)
ar (Albanian)
oro (Italian)
ór (Irish-Celtic)

zar (Old Iranian)

salta (Thracian)
zalto (Proto-Slavic)
zelts (Latvian)
zlato (Macedonian)

gold (German)
guld (Dannish)
gull (Norwegian)

In most cases, Thracian will be grouped with Balto-Slavic.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Slovak, are you able to provide an example of how the word 'chest' or 'chast' (honour) in Slavic languages evolved from its PIE root?

[Delodephius]

In Germanic it is 'gold', from Proto-Germanic *gulţan. It originates from PIE *ĝʰel- "to shine" through *gelwaz "yellow", from which also Slavic 'zalto' "gold" and 'žъltъ' "yellow" also originate. It would seem that in Germanic, Palaeo-Balkan and Proto-Balto Slavic the word for "gold" originated from the word for "yellow", while in Italo-Celtic it comes from the word for "ore", from 'ear' "Earth". Well, at a glance that what it seems.

[Delodephius]

Slovak, are you able to provide an example of how the word 'chest' or 'chast' (honour) in Slavic languages evolved from its PIE root?

Sorry SoM, I have not been able to find anything. Given that in Proto-Slavic it was *čьstь, it could be *kistь, *kistis, or something like that in Proto-Balto-Slavic, I'm not sure.