The Miladinov Brothers & Macedonian Literature - 19th Century

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  • TrueMacedonian
    Banned
    • Jan 2009
    • 3823

    #46


    Here's an excerpt from the link above;

    The history of the treatment of manuscripts in mid-19th century Macedonia is staggering. We have insight into it from data recorded by Jordan Hadži Konstantinov – Džinot. He visited almost all monasteries and churches in Macedonia and wrote about it in [the newspaper] "Tzarigradski Vestnik". According to his research, in the Markov monastery St. Dimitrija in the vicinity of Skopje, for instance, there were twenty loads of books; in the St. Pantheleimon monastery in the Nerezi village there were more than thirty loads; in the St. Nikola monastery there were ten loads. But, as he says, they were burnt, torn apart, and scattered by careless monks. There were also many manuscripts in the St. Bogorodica Pčinjska monastery, but those the monks burnt or threw away into the river. Then, in the Matejče monastery until the year 1848 there were ten loads of manuscripts, which according to Džinot were later destroyed by Arnaouts. In Treskavec he recorded a library of 20 loads, in St. Jovan the Baptist, near Veles (in 1851) he recorded ten loads, in St. Nikola in Moklište there were 20, in the St. Georgi monastery at Crna Reka – 50 loads of manuscripts, in the Lesnovo monastery there were more than 50 loads. In 1855, however, he found only ten loads of manuscripts. In the village of Bukovo, near Bitola, in the same year there were more than 20 loads, but as Džinot says, all of them were destroyed by a Vlach priest. Džinot wrote in "Tzarigradski Vestnik" that during this period the biggest number of manuscripts could be found in Ohrid and the vicinity, but even there some monks "not speaking our language" destroyed them, sometimes even by throwing them into the lake.

    Džinot estimated that Macedonia was brimming with "millions of Slavic relics written by hand on parchment". In 1854, he wrote: "Had we gathered the ancient Slavic handwritten books in our Macedonia 35 years ago and had we put them into a book archive, now we would have had around 150.000 manuscripts". Not many traces of that treasure remain today. A few hundred have been fortuitously saved in Macedonia or at Mt. Athos, Jerusalem, Sinai, i.e. Russia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Ukraine, the Czech Republic, Poland, Italy, France, Germany, Great Britain, Turkey, Greece and other countries. There are manuscripts in some foreign libraries today that were sold by Džinot himself (!).

    What was saved in Macedonia is only a small part of its former abundant handwritten treasures; instead, many significant Macedonian documents are today to be found abroad. These foreign collectors most often do not acknowledge it, since their gains were ill-gotten, but facts are facts...

    Comment

    • TrueMacedonian
      Banned
      • Jan 2009
      • 3823

      #47
      Here's a bit more from the link above;

      During its history, Macedonia has had many conquerors and foreign emissaries who destroyed, and robbed the land of, anything that was of value. Historical documents, especially those that refer to more recent times, can confirm that those people proved to be raiders of catastrophic proportions, doing much harm to the country's cultural heritage.

      Hence, the most valuable medieval manuscripts and books, as well as the most beautiful icons and archaeological objects, are to be found today in foreign museum collections. Priceless manuscripts and books crafted and illuminated with exquisite ornaments in the Macedonian medieval literary centres, as well as valuable icons created by master artists during the lifetime of the unsurpassed Michelangelo and Da Vinci, have been taken by raiders to their own countries, or have been sold into other countries. In consequence, today they are jealously kept far from both the public and from Macedonian scholars. Macedonian scholars, therefore, don't have enough information on everything that was stolen and taken away – but the existing data is shocking nonetheless.

      What was taken away in this manner from Macedonia cannot be estimated in numbers denoting financial worth. The value of cultural heritage isn’t measured thus, but just to illustrate that aspect as well, here's a comparison:

      A single old parchment sheet will fetch astronomically high sums (hundreds of thousands of dollars) in auction houses or on the black market. Macedonia has been robbed of hundreds of such manuscripts, i.e. tens of thousands of parchment sheets, which are now being kept in foreign libraries, museums and private collections.

      Or consider this: In the early 1990's, Moscow's "Vladimir Ilich Lenin" State Library asked our country for an insurance policy to exhibit some of its many Macedonian manuscripts. Unfortunately, our country couldn't afford the policy, since the Russian library estimated the fifteen Macedonian manuscripts in question were worth around 70 million dollars!



      So much is lost.

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15660

        #48
        Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
        Or consider this: In the early 1990's, Moscow's "Vladimir Ilich Lenin" State Library asked our country for an insurance policy to exhibit some of its many Macedonian manuscripts. Unfortunately, our country couldn't afford the policy, since the Russian library estimated the fifteen Macedonian manuscripts in question were worth around 70 million dollars!
        Bloody hell! A scan would suffice for now.
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • Daskalot
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 4345

          #49
          As a searcher of the Truth this really saddens me. But still we wreck havock with what we have, impressive!
          Macedonian Truth Organisation

          Comment

          • TrueMacedonian
            Banned
            • Jan 2009
            • 3823

            #50
            Something interesting I found about Kuzman Sapkarev;



            From "Eastern Europe" page 595 by Par Richard C. Frucht.

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15660

              #51
              What did it mean by "Orthodox Slavs from Bulgaria proper"?
              I get the impression they are referring to people other than Bulgarians????
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13675

                #52
                The meaning of the term 'Bulgarian' to the Macedonians must be taken into consideration. Misirkov (1903) admits that the Macedonians had indeed used the terms 'Bulgarian' and 'Christian' as an identity, but why this was so was not viewed as important, Balan (1904) stated that 'Bulgarian' was used as a synonym for 'Christian', hence even the Russian Emperor was a 'Bulgarian' to many of the peasants. Further to this, the ancestors of their 'Bulgarians', according to the Macedonians themselves, are figures that feature prominently in Macedonian history, not Bulgarian history. They do not share the view that they are descended from the Turkic Khans of Central Asia, as the Bulgarians in Bulgaria do. Jordan Dzinot explicitly states that his 'Bulgarian' ancestors are people like Basil the Macedonian and Justinian the Great, Kuzman Shapkarev himself talks of how his father told him many stories about King Marko and Alexander the Great, and there are several more examples that clearly highlight the historical memory of the Macedonians about their ancestry:



                So, the 'Bulgarian' identity of the Macedonians must be considered with all factors, not just narrow ones. Let's take a look at what Shapkarev thought with regard to the origins of the so-called 'Bulgarians', in a text written during 1868. This was before the Exarchate was established, when the Macedonians and Orthodox Slavs of Bulgaria worked in unison under the umbrella term of 'Bulgarians' or 'Slavic Bulgarians' against the encroaching Romaic-speaking clergy of the Rum Millet:

                Ever since Apostolic times the Slavs who live in Macedonia, accepted Christianity from the first progenitors, for which there are many proofs……

                And on the coming of the Volga Bulgars to the Balkan peninsula, from where they mixed with them, and, so to say, they blended into one people…….

                The Macedonian Slavs have always, with the evangelical truth, tried to enlighten with their one-blooded brothers** that arrived; and for this they were also helped by the Tsarigrad Emperors……


                **Here Shapkarev refers to one-blooded after fusion, not prior.
                It can be clearly noted that Shapkarev does not even consider some 'migration theory', as he speaks of 'the Slavs' in Macedonia during biblical times.

                That Slavic-speaking people, including Macedonians, mixed with Bulgars, Avars, etc is undeniable. Asian Avars were in the Balkans like the Asian Bulgars were, but neither of them were significant in numbers hence neither of them exist today, they were all assimilated into the local culture, language and faith. The comparison cannot even be considered - If the 'Macedonian Slavs' and 'Volga Bulgars' are considered as one in this experiment of a hybrid identity such as 'Slavic Bulgarian', Macedonians (Macedonian Slavs) have contributed overwhelmingly more than the Bulgarians (Volga Bulgars) have, in nearly every aspect.

                It is clear that the Macedonians have an older history in the land - the 'Volga Bulgars' take their language from the 'Macedonian Slavs', who are natives of Macedonia and were the one’s who passed on Christianity, literature and culture to their newly-arrived 'brothers' from the Volga. The last paragraph goes on to speak about how the East Roman Emperors were assisting in the process of assimilating these Volga Bulgars.
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Prolet
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 5241

                  #53
                  Croats to make a movie about Brakja Miladinovci

                  The Bulgarians are closely monitoring the situation, could this cause another uproar?

                  МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                  Comment

                  • Bratot
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2855

                    #54
                    Alexander Viktorovich Rachinski was the first to explain the problems that followed the publication of the anthology and all circumstances related to it in his "Opstojatelstva" he said in his obituary-biography of the brothers Miladinovci in Moscow, "Day" num.21 of March 3, 1862 year:

                    There Rachinski writes about Constantin:

                    "His success in the Russian language, so allied with Macedonian, and difficult for the Macedonians, is excellent... The main object of his grief was the negligence of Russian scholars, with the exception of Bessonov and Beljaev, to his - Anthology of the Macedonian songs, really excellent. "
                    The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                    Comment

                    • Prolet
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 5241

                      #55
                      Bratot, How do you see the Bulgarians reacting to this? To them Braka Miladinovci are Bulgarians.
                      МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                      Comment

                      • Bratot
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 2855

                        #56
                        Originally posted by Prolet View Post
                        Bratot, How do you see the Bulgarians reacting to this? To them Braka Miladinovci are Bulgarians.

                        I don't give a fuck how they react, these are the facts and if they wish to manipulate whatsoever they do that to themsefs.
                        The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13675

                          #57
                          Bratot, I have never seen that quote from Rachinski, do you have a link to the whole text?

                          Let's hope the Croats make an accurate depiction of the brothers and their true relevance for Macedonia, and insignificance for Bulgaria.
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13675

                            #58
                            Originally posted by Prolet View Post
                            Bratot, How do you see the Bulgarians reacting to this? To them Braka Miladinovci are Bulgarians.
                            Prolet, I am sure that you don't ask so many irrelevant questions in person. Or perhaps I am not.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Bratot
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 2855

                              #59
                              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                              Bratot, I have never seen that quote from Rachinski, do you have a link to the whole text?

                              Let's hope the Croats make an accurate depiction of the brothers and their true relevance for Macedonia, and insignificance for Bulgaria.
                              Зборникот го доби името бугарски, иако од 660, 584 се македонски, а 76 се бугарски. Константин Миладинов со собрани македонски песни беше во Русија, а таму мислел да го објави. Таму, во Русија, него го викале Македонец.
                              Таков бил одговорот што Константин му го дал на клисарот на киевската соборна црква "Св. Софија", кога одговорил дека "не е Грек" туку Македонец. Рускиот славист А.В. Рачински дека рецензентите што го разгледувале понудениот зборник што го предложил за Печат самиот К. Миладинов, тие биле одушевени од содржината и складноста "на некои од македонските песни". Во разговор со бугарскиот поет, како што пишува подоцна Георги Раковски, Константин ја соопштил намерата: "ја има многу македонски песни што сакам да ги издадам..." По идењето во Загреб, по совет на Штросмаер зборникот го добива името бугарски. Имено, при една посета на Загреб, кога се сретнал со бугарскиот книжевник, фолклорист и дипломат Васил Чолаков, го замолил да му даде 100 песни: од Бугарија, за да може да го нарече својот зборник бугарски. Ова се гледа од писмото на Васил Чолаков до Фрањо Рачки: од 12.4.1862 година /по смртта на Миладиновци/. Во писмото се наведува дека песните не се подарени, туку продадени.
                              Да цитираме дел од писмото:

                              "Може да ви йе познато - му пишува Чолаков на Рачки - че като дойдох преминътъта година в Загреб, покойнийт мой друг Константин Миладинов ме умоли да му дам сто песни из въсточните старни на България, за да може да даде названйе своята збирка "Български народни песни"". Аз - додава Чолаков - с благодарение испълних молбата на свойт друг, като ми ся врече да ми даде непременно сто (100) форинта от тукашните предбройници за трудът ми. Но като предбройниците не испратиха парите с време, то йест докле беше сам Миладинов в Загреб, и като не знаех и аз че ще мя постигне таково зло в тукашните старни, то оставихме да се наплатиме в свое време като се върна в България".





                              Од писмото се гледаат две работи: дека бугарските песни се додадени само за да може да се даде името бугарски народни песни, а не македонски.

                              Од предговорот кон Зборникот, како и од јазичните анализи се гледа дека 564 песни се од околината на десетте македонски градови Струга, Охрид, Битола, Дебар, Велес, Костур, Воден, Кукуш, Струмица и Прилеп., а 76.-те песни /од стотте/ што ги добил од В. Чолаков се од околината на Софија и Панаѓуриште.
                              The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                              Comment

                              • Prolet
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2009
                                • 5241

                                #60
                                Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                                Prolet, I am sure that you don't ask so many irrelevant questions in person. Or perhaps I am not.
                                SOM, The Bulgarians are directly involved in every shape or form, if they can cause such a stir because of Spaska Mitrova then this topic goes way over the top for them.
                                МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                                Comment

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