The Macedonian Sun & (Original) Flag

[sydney]

The Macedonians have used the Macedonian sun throughout history even in churches built in the 1200’s, to the modern Macedonians using it in the 1700’s/1800’s as Macedonian sun has been cultural symbol of the ethnic Macedonians since ancient times through the Macedonian sun representing the Macedonian tribes of Ancient Macedonia, showcasing that it’s a Macedonian symbol.

I’m interested as to why the Macedonian sun also features in some Ancient Greek art. Does anyone know why this was the case when it was the cultural symbol of the Macedonians and not the Greeks? Was it possibly due to the Macedonian invasion of the Greek city states and the Greeks drawing Macedonians as aggressors featuring the Macedonian symbol in order to distinctively prove the aggressors were the Macedonians? Or it could even be the Macedonians themselves spreading their cultural symbol wherever they pleased to show the Macedonians have been many places.

I’m not sure and I want to know if anyone here has any information about it.

I’d say it’s naive to think the sunburst was only revered by one tribe/people. Archaeology will continue to throw up questions such as this recent work which found a Mycenaean-era seal stone and a bronze disk displaying the 16 pointed sun/star: https://www.archaeology.org/issues/3...-warrior-grave

I believe Carlin also references this “Griffin Warrior” in another thread.

Further to the above, this article mentions it is rare to find the 16 pointed sun from Mycenaean times: https://www.sciencealert.com/breatht...-with-gold/amp

What is more unusual is a 16-pointed star - a symbol quite common in Greece from the 6th century BCE onward, but much less common as far back as the artefacts in the graves. It made an appearance on a second, unspecified bronze-and-gold artefact in the tombs too, the archaeologists said.
"It's rare," Stocker said. "There aren't many 16-pointed stars in Mycenaean iconography. The fact that we have two objects with 16 points in two different media (agate and gold) is noteworthy."

Ancient Balkan religion and culture placed great importance on the sun, moon, water, vegetation, etc. Predecessors of the Macedonians, such as the Paeonians, were sun-worshippers. I’d imagine sun-worship was not the exclusive domain of the Balkans. It’s a topic that warrants further research.

As for the 16 pointed sun in a modern context, we’re the only ones that have used it symbolically - and culturally - to unite a people, regardless of where they are, on a path to identity and independence.

[Stevce]

Hi Chicho, I would guess that as Amyntas 1 was a vassal for Darius, that Macedonian culture spread though out the Hellenic world. As the sun symbol can be found on ancient Paaeonian coins it would have changed styles though out the ages becoming absorbed by other cultures each with its own version on the sun.

[Chicho Makedonski]

The Macedonians have used the Macedonian sun throughout history even in churches built in the 1200’s, to the modern Macedonians using it in the 1700’s/1800’s as Macedonian sun has been cultural symbol of the ethnic Macedonians since ancient times through the Macedonian sun representing the Macedonian tribes of Ancient Macedonia, showcasing that it’s a Macedonian symbol.

I’m interested as to why the Macedonian sun also features in some Ancient Greek art. Does anyone know why this was the case when it was the cultural symbol of the Macedonians and not the Greeks? Was it possibly due to the Macedonian invasion of the Greek city states and the Greeks drawing Macedonians as aggressors featuring the Macedonian symbol in order to distinctively prove the aggressors were the Macedonians? Or it could even be the Macedonians themselves spreading their cultural symbol wherever they pleased to show the Macedonians have been many places.

I’m not sure and I want to know if anyone here has any information about it.

[Carlin]

Interesting stuff Carlin, is the above from Hammond? Are there photos of these fez hats with the sun?

No photos unfortunately. I do believe this comes from Hammond (from one of his "Macedonia" books) - it's material/quotes that is circulating online.

[VMRO]

- Nicholas Hammond is the man who suggested Vergina/Kutlesh to Manolis Andronikos as the place where the ancient capital of the first Macedonians was. He deposits the following in his works: ''… the open cup, introduced in Macedonia in 8th BC century, that has flat projecting rim and 2 or 4 piercings through it (rim), became fashionable at that time. Both these forms of cup with 2 or 4 holes seem to copy wooden cups; such (wooden) cups are made even today by Vlach/Aromanian shepherds of Northern Greece…"

- Elsewhere, he observes that female figures of headstones of ancient Macedonia are illustrated with interesting details, in particular in heavy woollen clothes and cloaks; such clothes and cloaks are the nowadays Aromanian capes.

- Alexander the Great is represented in a myth from Metsovo as a ram (male sheep) at daylight and as a handsome young man at night, an element related to Alexander as the son of Ammon Zeus, the highest god with ram horns; it should be noted that Alexander the Great was illustrated with ram horns on the coins (currencies) of the ancient era.

- The type of headband in the traditional costume of women from Gramousta and that one of women from Kalash, descendants of Alexander the Great's soldiers in NW Pakistan, show many similarities.

- The Macedonians’ Star (Sun) was not absent from Aromanians’ culture. The eight-rays Sun (star) of ancient Macedonia embroidered in the traditional fez (hat) of the women traditional costume of Negush (town in Macedonia), the same way there is also (in a painting) the similar star on a fez (hat) of an old man from Metsovo. This particular painting was made four or five years before Andronicus’ discoveries in Vergina (the date was written on the painting). Women from Fourka (Aromanian village in Epirus) embroidered eight-rays star on their bust (dress).

Interesting stuff Carlin, is the above from Hammond? Are there photos of these fez hats with the sun?

[Carlin]

- Nicholas Hammond is the man who suggested Vergina/Kutlesh to Manolis Andronikos as the place where the ancient capital of the first Macedonians was. He deposits the following in his works: ''… the open cup, introduced in Macedonia in 8th BC century, that has flat projecting rim and 2 or 4 piercings through it (rim), became fashionable at that time. Both these forms of cup with 2 or 4 holes seem to copy wooden cups; such (wooden) cups are made even today by Vlach/Aromanian shepherds of Northern Greece…"

- Elsewhere, he observes that female figures of headstones of ancient Macedonia are illustrated with interesting details, in particular in heavy woollen clothes and cloaks; such clothes and cloaks are the nowadays Aromanian capes.

- Alexander the Great is represented in a myth from Metsovo as a ram (male sheep) at daylight and as a handsome young man at night, an element related to Alexander as the son of Ammon Zeus, the highest god with ram horns; it should be noted that Alexander the Great was illustrated with ram horns on the coins (currencies) of the ancient era.

- The type of headband in the traditional costume of women from Gramousta and that one of women from Kalash, descendants of Alexander the Great's soldiers in NW Pakistan, show many similarities.

- The Macedonians’ Star (Sun) was not absent from Aromanians’ culture. The eight-rays Sun (star) of ancient Macedonia embroidered in the traditional fez (hat) of the women traditional costume of Negush (town in Macedonia), the same way there is also (in a painting) the similar star on a fez (hat) of an old man from Metsovo. This particular painting was made four or five years before Andronicus’ discoveries in Vergina (the date was written on the painting). Women from Fourka (Aromanian village in Epirus) embroidered eight-rays star on their bust (dress).

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Sun symbol found on the emblem of the 'Union of Macedonian Youth Organisations' which operated in Bulgaria in the 1920s and 30s

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Sun symbol at the Sveti Ǵeorǵi Church in the village of Ljaski, Nevrokopsko. The church is dated to 1844 though it may actually be older. There were a couple other sun symbols but this was the most pronounced.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Sun image present in emblem for Newcastle Macedonia FC, founded in 1966.

[Stevce]

Hi guys. Isn't the symbol the sun with the flower of life in the middle?
I notice the sun symbol and flower symbol in the ancient cultures in Macedonia.
I just assumed the royal family put these two symbols together, with a more stylish sun symbol. Is their any books or articles to read about on the topic of the flag?

[George S.]

Sorry to dissapoint you all guys greece has been relentless on macedonia since the balkan wars.Greece had not a valid claim as macedonia was divided up into 3 partitions.
So greece has been raining it's propaganda on macedonia since 1913 to the present
It's interesting how everything we do (saying obvious things like the holocaust in Egej, our history and heritage, out name, RoM, etc.) is taken as a provocation.

But whatever Greece launches (bullshit customs officers, nazi attitudes, not recognizing the name of a country which already exists 20 years as autonomous, etc.) is just all in a day's work.

Think about it.
This is not new it has been allways going on.

[DraganOfStip]

It's interesting how everything we do (saying obvious things like the holocaust in Egej, our history and heritage, out name, RoM, etc.) is taken as a provocation.

But whatever Greece launches (bullshit customs officers, nazi attitudes, not recognizing the name of a country which already exists 20 years as autonomous, etc.) is just all in a day's work.

Think about it.

Ouch!
By far the best reply I've seen in weeks.
Bullseye.

[Perun]

Man you make simple dialoge difficult.
The point is that its not a royal symbol first of all, secondly it was used in a political manner against Greece (in my view) which subsequently sparked a viscous chain of events that is holding both countrys hostage to some romantic idea of who were the Macedonians.

It's interesting how everything we do (saying obvious things like the holocaust in Egej, our history and heritage, out name, RoM, etc.) is taken as a provocation.

But whatever Greece launches (bullshit customs officers, nazi attitudes, not recognizing the name of a country which already exists 20 years as autonomous, etc.) is just all in a day's work.

Think about it.

[Phoenix]

Man you make simple dialoge difficult.
The point is that its not a royal symbol first of all, secondly it was used in a political manner against Greece (in my view) which subsequently sparked a viscous chain of events that is holding both countrys hostage to some romantic idea of who were the Macedonians.

If it's not a royal symbol then what is it...if it's a simple depiction of the sun (or the planet Venus, as is most ancient Sun symbolism) who owns it...surely the modern 'greeks' don't have exclusive rights to it, any more than any race of people who live under the influence of the sun and its cycles...but you're the ones who've monoplized it through an act of political bribery and intimidation.

[Voltron]

What is your point...have you got one...???

Man you make simple dialoge difficult.
The point is that its not a royal symbol first of all, secondly it was used in a political manner against Greece (in my view) which subsequently sparked a viscous chain of events that is holding both countrys hostage to some romantic idea of who were the Macedonians.