Why all the names of the cities of the people and months and gods were greek?

[ATHANASIOS]

On more time you SPAM this forum with that letter sent to Obama, I WILL BAN you, Katalaveno gajduri?

i said to you truth i shall speak


over 200 scholars signed that around the world

reply at that

[ATHANASIOS]

It's a little more complex than that champ, but I can accept that simplistic is the only acceptable version for yourself. Personally, I can't imagine how you'd cope with something beyond the simpleton line of lunacy "4000 years of history".......

nothing is complex for those who know the truth .....

complex is for the ignorands

[Daskalot]

i said to you truth i shall speak


over 200 scholars signed that around the world

reply at that

Truth is the TRUTH, but to SPAM and being a TROLL is completely another cookie!

[Daskalot]

nothing is complex for those who know the truth .....

complex is for the ignorands

The come visit this thread dedicated to you, http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...3529#post23529

Please PROVIDE PROOF of your Macedonian Origins.

[Jankovska]

I am bored of the him now, so what if 200 loosers have signed it? You can go find 2000 to sign it and I will still be Macedonian and you will still be a moron. Goodbye now

[George S.]

In answer to your why greek gods are greek

From the Little Book of BIG Greek Lies

BIG Greek Lie # 3

by Risto Stefov

June 2005

[email protected]

Click Here for Other Greek Lies

“The Ancient ‘Greek gods’ were Greek”

(Modern Greeks believe that those who spoke Greek
and believed in the Greek gods were actually Greek)




(Erratic behaviour is a sign of a guilty conscience. L. K.)

[NOTE: Our apologies to the Greek people if they find these articles offensive. Our objective here is NOT to create tension between the Macedonian and Greek people but rather to highlight the problem that exists within the Greek State and its institutions. As long as the Greek State denies our existence as Macedonians with rights and privileges, we will continue to publish these types of articles.]

In this article we will show you that the so called “Greek gods” were not really “Greek” at all.

We often read in books, see movies and hear stories about the so called mythical “Greek gods” but have we ever stopped to think what makes these deities Greek? Are they “Greek” because they originated where modern Greece is today? Are they “Greek” in a national sense? Are they Greek because the Ancients that lived in the region where modern Greece is today wrote about them? How are they “Greek”?

The word “Greek” before the word “gods” implies that there is a relationship between “Greek” and “gods” which means that in some way these gods belong to Greece or the “Greeks”. Since these “gods” are not associated with other Mediterranean people such as the Macedonians, Paeonians, Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Carians, Lycians, Paphlagonians, Cappadocians, Cilicians, Picidians, Pamphylians and others, in a similar manner, who also celebrated and believed in them, then one is led to believe that these gods must be exclusively connected to Greece and the “Greeks”

The question is how?

Among several sources we consulted, Microsoft’s Encarta encyclopedia under the heading “Greek Mythology” had an explanation but this explanation did not enforce the idea that the so called “Greek gods” were actually “Greek”.

Greek gods” were “Greek” because they were exclusively celebrated by the ancient people who lived south of Mount Olympus where modern Greece is today?

That too, I am afraid is not true. The mythical gods, referred to as the “Greek gods”, were common to most ancient Mediterranean nations and cultures. They were as much universal to the ancient world as Christ and Christianity is universal to our modern world.

THE TRUTH The Ancient “Greek gods” were not Greek at all! In fact, referring to them as “Greek gods” would be a myth in itself.

It is more appropriate, truthful and precise to call them Mediterranean gods than it is to call them “Greek gods”. After all, they were celebrated, revered and feared by many more nations and cultures north, east and west of Mount Olympus than they were south of Mount Olympus. And that is the truth.
See table of list of gods.

Sources

“Greek Mythology”. Microsoft Encarta 98 Encyclopedia, USA, 1998.

Aleksandar Donski, “The Descendants of Alexander the Great of Macedon, The Arguments and Evidence that Today’s Macedonians are Descendants of the Ancient Macedonians”. Shtip, 2004.

Carlos Parada, “Geneological Guide to Greek Mythology”. Philadelphia: Coronoet Books, 1993.

The Columbia Encyclopedia. Third Edition, New York: Columbia University Press, 1963.

Grolier Encyclopedia. Navato: Grolier Electronic Publishing Inc., 1995.

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[George S.]

This statement is a complete lie. Not only that the Macedonians did not worshiped the Greek gods, but also there is not a single temple discovered on the territory of Macedonia which resembles the temples in Greece. Alexander sacrificed to "Macedonian gods according to ancestral rituals, and ordered a torch-race and gymnastic contest to follow." Urlich Wilken�s Alexander the Great: p. 187, line 15, we read the following passage referring to his advances to the Hyphasis:

"Alexander built twelve great tower-like altars on the nearer side of the river. We have been informed by those who refer everything to Babylonia, that this was for the twelve signs of the zodiac. In reality it was the twelve gods of Macedonia to whom these altars were raised."

Key words are: Twelve Macedonian gods, not Greek. The fact that the Macedonians had their own gods, does prove that they had different religion from the Greeks who worshiped different gods. To this we can add the writings of the ancient author Plutarch:

'Soon after his death the people of Athens paid him fitting honours by erecting his statue in bronze, and by decreeing that the eldest member of his family should be maintained in the prytaneum at the public expense. On the base of his statue was carved his famous inscription: 'If only your strength had been equal, Demosthenes, to your wisdom Never would Greece have been ruled by a Macedonian Ares' [p.216]

Macedonians had their own Gods and religion, separate from the Greeks. Macedonian Ares is a Macedonian god, which the ancient Greeks here compare to their own Ares. The fact that they call it "Macedonian Ares" clearly states that it is not the Greek God Ares, but a Macedonian god equivalent to the Greek Ares, whose name they had substituted with Ares. This phenomena when the ancient Greeks substitute the names of the foreign gods with names of their own gods, is called interpretatio graeca. In the ancient Greek texts we also find the Greeks referring to one Egyptian God as Egyptian Athena. Of course, the real name of this Egyptian god can not be Athena (just like the name of the Macedonian god above was not Ares), since the Egyptians didn't worship Greek gods The ancient Greek writers here use interpretatio graeca in order to better relate to their audience the magnitude of the Macedonian and Egyptian gods, both foreign to them. The above quote, furthermore, clearly shows that not only Macedonians had their own gods and religion distinct from the Greeks, but they also subdued Greece.

[George S.]

RE change of macedonian place names:Sender: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 16:39:07 CST
From: “N. Tsolak” <[email protected]>
Subject: Greece: Denial of Human Rights for Macedonians
Article: 6332
To: [email protected]
Denial of human rights for Macedonians in Greece
Human Rights Movement for Macedonians in Greece, the O.S.C.E. Review Confrence, Vienna, 4–29 1996
Presented By: The Lerin Region Macedonian Cultural Association of Ontario Toronto, Canada, October, 1996
Introduction

In the case of the Macedonian minority in Greece, the official state policy is to deny its existence. This position gives rise to two questions.

1) Why does the Greek state officially deny the existence of the Macedonian minority in Greece?

2) Is the official Greek position true or false?

The answers become evident from the facts below.
The Untold Story

During the late nineteenth century the Ottoman Empire was disintegrating and the region known as Macedonia became a hotly contested area, especially between the emerging states of Greece and Bulgaria. In the aftermath of the Balkan Wars (1912-1913), Macedonia was partitioned among Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia. By the Treaty of Bucharest (1913) Greece annexed 51% of the region of Macedonia. The consequences for one of the indigenous peoples in the Balkans—the Macedonians—were most horrendous. With the objective of consolidating sovereignty over its newly acquired territory, the Greek state subjugated the Macedonians completely, and for the rest of the 20th century continuously and systematically undertook to eliminate all traces of the Macedonian identity. There are three steps a state can take to destroy a body of people who consider themselves a distinct nation by virtue of their historical, linguistic and ethnic links:

1) eradication;

2) expulsion and colonization;

3) forced denationalization and assimilation.

Eradication 1913—over 160 Macedonian villages were burned with significant loss of life and the remaining population forced to flee. 1946—49—further extermination and expulsion of Macedonians during the Greek Civil War.
Expulsion and Colonization

1920—approximately 70,000 Macedonians were obliged to move to Bulgaria in exchange for approximately 25,000 Greeks.

1923—resettlement of approximately 565,000 refugees from Asia Minor and approximately 55,000 colonists from Greece.

1948—approximately 28,000 Macedonian children were evacuated out of areas where civil war was raging to the safety of Eastern European countries. Their evacuation became exile. To this day the Greek state denies their right to return to their places of birth.

1950's—continued colonization with people from Turkey, Egypt and other parts of Greece.

1960's—continued colonization of confiscated properties whereby it is handed over to persons of “proven patriotism” for Greece.

1990's—continued colonization with persons of Greek descent from the Caucasus. Forced Denationalization and Assimilation

1914—Professor R.A. Reiss reports to the Greek government: “Those whom you would call Bulgarian speakers, I would simply call Macedonians. …. I repeat the mass of inhabitants there (Macedonia) remain simply Macedonians.”

1919—Greek Commission on Toponyms issues instructions for choosing Hellenic names for Macedonian place names.

1920—Greek Ministry of Internal Affairs publishes administrative booklet, “Advice on the Change of the Names of Municipalities and Villages.”

1925—Greece denies the existence of Macedonians and refers to them as Slavophone Greeks or Old Bulgarians.

1926—Legislative Orders in Government Gazette #331 orders Macedonians names of towns, villages, mountains changed to Greek names.

1927—Cyrillic inscriptions destroyed or overwritten from Macedonian churches, tombstones, and icons. Church services in the Macedonian language are outlawed. Macedonians were forced by the Greek state to abandon their personal names and adopt Greek names assigned to them. Some of the hellenized names still echo their original forms. For example, Mr. Popov became Mr. Pappas. Other Macedonian names were replaced with completely different Greek names. For example, Mr. Ickarov became Mr. Christidis.

1928—1,497 Macedonian place names converted to Greek since

1926. English journalist V. Hild reveals, “The Greeks do not only persecute living Slavs (Macedonians) …., but they even persecute dead ones. They do not leave them in peace even in their graves. They erase the Slavonic inscriptions on the headstones, remove the bones and burn them.” Decree 87 orders accelerated denationalization of Macedonians. Greek Ministry of Education sent “specially trained” instructors to accelerate conversion to the Greek language.

1938—Law 23666 banned the use of the Macedonian language and strove to erase every trace of the Macedonian identity. Macedonians were fined, beaten, jailed, and exiled to arid islands for simply being Macedonian by birth and/or for speaking Macedonian. Adults and children were further humiliated by being forced to drink castor oil when they were caught speaking the Macedonian language.

1940—39 more Macedonian place names changed to Greek since 1929.

1945—Law 697 brought into force more regulations for changing Macedonians toponyms to Greek.

1947—Law L-2 arbitrarily and without due process stripped citizens of their citizenship.

1948—Law M provided for confiscation of properties.

1953—Greek authorities meet in Salonika to plan expulsion of Macedonians and to bring Greeks from the south to colonize lands belonging to Macedonian exiles. Decree 504—continued property confiscation and parcels of land are given to Greek colonists along with financial incentives.

1954—Law 2951 confiscated land is placed in the hands of Agricultural Institutions and Commissions for Expropriations who decide how to redistribute properties.

1959—Law 3958 allows for confiscation of property of those who left Greece and did not return within five years. The populations of many Macedonian villages in the districts of Florina, Kastoria, and Edessa were forced to swear language oaths never to speak Macedonian and to speak only Greek. The people would gather in the appointed place in their respective villages and in front of Greek church, government, and military officials were made to give the following oath: “ I promise before God and men and the official authorities of the state that from this day on I shall cease speaking the Slavic Idiom, which only gives grounds for misunderstanding to the enemies of our country, the Bulgarians, and that I will speak everywhere and always the official language of my fatherland, the Greek language, in which the Holy Gospel of Jesus Christ is written.”

1962—Decree 4234 reinforced past laws regarding confiscated properties of exiled Macedonians and denied them the right of return.

1979—135 Macedonian place names changed to Greek since 1940.

1982—Greek internal security police urges intensive campaign to wipe out remaining Macedonian consciousness and use of the language. Law 106841 allows the right of return to political exiles provided they are ethnic Greeks by birth. Macedonian exiles continue to be denied the right of return.

1985—Decree 1540 allows the right to reclaim confiscated properties to political exiles provided they are ethnic Greeks by birth. Macedonian exiles are denied this right.

1987—Greece establishes special “kindergartens” for two and three year old Macedonian children so as to ensure they learn the Greek language and prevent them from learning the Macedonian language at home.

The 1990's—Fear of Greek Authorities and State Harassment Greece is probably the only member of the OSCE which has not granted any freedoms and human rights to its diverse nationalities. Apart from the Muslim Turkish minority in Western Thrace, other ethnic minorities in Greece such as the Macedonians cannot organize their own cultural associations, schools and religious institutions. Greece is probably the only member of the OSCE which does not permit the return of political refugees and others whose citizenship has been arbitrarily revoked without due process. The present population of the Macedonian districts in Northern Greece is approximately 2 millions. Approximately 1 millions are of direct Macedonian descent. After nearly a century of systematic effort to denationalize the Macedonians, many have succumbed and developed a Greek consciousness and refer to themselves as Greeks or Greek Macedonians. The Greek state has always portrayed the Greek identity as being more cultured and superior. The Macedonian identity has always been portrayed as an uncivilized, barbaric and dirty presence within a pure Greek space. The psychological aim is to make people abandon using the Macedonian language. It has gotten to the point where one is looked down upon for speaking Macedonian. The language is referred to as the “local idiom.” It is interesting to note that the Macedonian language is recognized internationally, but it is forbidden in Greece. After three generations of policies of denationalization by the Greek state the Macedonian consciousness among the population has been badly damaged to the point where those who retain their Macedonian consciousness fear to declare it openly. This fear is difficult to comprehend by those who grew up in free and open societies. You have to experience it to understand it. Among the older generation of Macedonians the fear is pervasive and ingrained. It is as if the person is always on guard for his actions and words for fear that he will be betrayed or heard by Greek authorities. When one Macedonian was pressed further on this issue he blurted out in exasperation, “It (fear) has gotten into the genes!”

[George S.]

Greek Acts against the Macedonians change of placenames

(1912 – 1994)

By Peter Medichkov

The following chronicles the methods employed by Greece in its effort to eradicate the centuries old Macedonian ethnic presence in Aegean Macedonia (Greek Macedonia) in the name of Greek territorial expansion. Specific laws and decrees are presented against the backdrop of relevant historical events affecting Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia.

The chronology begins in 1912 when Greece, for the first time ever, came into possession of Macedonian territory and this by force of arms, almost a decade after the 1903 Ilinden (St. Iliya Day) Uprising lead by the IMRO (Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization) in a failed effort to free Macedonia from the Ottoman yoke.

The ominous prophecy of Harilaos Trikoupis, Greek Prime Minister from 1882 to 1895, foretold what the neighboring Greek state had in mind for Macedonia and its people:

"When the Great War comes, Macedonia will become Greek or Bulgarian, according to who wins. If it is taken by the Bulgarians, they will make the population Slavs. If we take it, we will make all of them Greeks".

1912 Balkan Wars

Irredentist Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria and Montenegro drive a crumbling Ottoman Empire out of the Balkans and pursue territorial expansion into Macedonia. Greek army enters Aegean Macedonia ostensibly to "liberate" Macedonia from the Ottoman.

1913

The Greek, Serbian, Bulgarian alliance breaks down over competing claims for Macedonia. Bulgaria miscalculates and attacks Serbia and Greek armies. Ottoman forces rejoin the war against Bulgaria. Bulgaria defeated, loses territorial gains in Macedonia.

From "liberation to tyranny", Greek army commences savage and bloody "ethnic cleansing" of the towns of Kukush, Doiran, Demir-Hisar and Serres in the Aegean Macedonia.

160 Macedonian villages burned, and atrocities committed. Mass exodus of refugees.

Treaty of Bucharest (Aug. 10, 1913), ends the War and partitions Macedonia.

Greece refers to conquered Macedonian lands as the "new territories" under "military administration". Not yet officially incorporated into the Kingdom of Greece.

Military occupation augmented by influx of administrators, educators; police brought from Greece.

Professor R.A. Reiss reports to the Greek government: "Those whom you would call Bulgarian speakers I would simply call Macedonians...Macedonian is not the language they speak in Sofia...I repeat the mass of inhabitants there (Macedonia) remain simply Macedonians."

1917

LAW 1051 Greece inaugurates new administrative jurisdictions for governing newly acquired lands in Aegean Macedonia.

1919 Treaty of Versailles (Paris)

England and France ratify the principles of the Bucharest Treaty and endorse the partition of Macedonia.

Greece pursues the forced expulsion and denationalization of Macedonians and begins colonization by transfering “Greeks” into Aegean Macedonia.

Article 51 of Treaty of Versailles espouses equality of civil rights, education, language, and religion for all national minorities which Greece violates and ignores.

Neuilly Convention and forced exchange of populations. About 70,000 Macedonians expelled from Aegean Macedonia to Bulgaria and 25,000 Greeks transfered from Bulgaria to Aegean Macedonia.

Greek Commission on Toponyms issues instructions for choosing Hellenized names for Macedonian places in Aegean Macedonia.

1920

Greek Ministry of Internal Affairs publishes booklet: "Advice on the change of the names of municipalities and villages" in Aegean Macedonia.

1925

76 names of Macedonian villages and towns in Aegean Macedonia Hellenized since 1918 by Greek authorities.

League of Nations pressures on Greece to extend rights to Macedonian minority.

ABECEDAR Primer printed in Athens for use by Macedonian school children in Aegean Macedonia. Written in Latin alphabet and reflects the Macedonian language spoken in Bitola-Lerin (Florina) district in Western Aegean Macedonia.

Serbs and Bulgarians protest to League of Nations. Primer undermines their claim that Macedonians are Serbs and Bulgarians respectively.

Greece counters with last minute cable to League: "the population.....knows neither the Serbian nor the Bulgarian language and speaks nothing but a Slav-Macedonian idiom."

Greece "retreats" so as to preserve Balkan alliances. Primer is destroyed after League of Nations delegates leave Salonika (Solun).

Thereafter, Greece denies existence of Macedonians. Refers to Macedonians as "Slavophone Greeks", "Old Bulgarians" and many other appellations but not as Macedonians.

1926

Legislative Orders in Government Gazette #331 orders Macedonian names of towns, villages, mountains changed to Greek names.

1927

Cyrillic inscriptions in churches, tombstones and icons rewritten or destroyed. Church services in the Macedonian language are outlawed.

Macedonians ordered to abandon personal names and under Duress adopt Greek names assigned to them by the Greek state.

1928

1, 497 Macedonian place names in Aegean Macedonia Hellenized since 1926.

[George S.]

Besides Hellenizing the Macedonian population by teaching it to speak Greek, the Greek state also took measures to eliminate everything that was Macedonian.

By law promulgated on November 21, 1926, all place names (toponymia) in Greek occupied Macedonia were Hellenized. All Macedonian names of cities, towns, villages, rivers, lakes, mountains, etc., were changed to Greek ones. In a similar manner, Macedonian families were forced to change their Macedonian last names to Greek ones. Even individual given names were changed forcing alien names upon the Macedonian population. Since then to this day families lost continuity with their relatives especially those who had fled Greece before Hellenization policies were put in place.

For those who don't know what "Hellenization" is, it is a process of assimilating people from various ethnic groups such as Macedonians, Vlachs, Albanians, Turks, etc., and turning them into Greeks. To an outsider this may seem strange and even comical but to Macedonians who were born in Greek occupied Macedonia and who had lived through this process, it was a living nightmare.

Many Macedonians have relatives; brothers, sisters, cousins, uncles, aunts, etc., who have been Hellenized by Greek propaganda and today are the staunchest Greeks. The so called Greeks who are indigenous to Greek occupied Macedonia are no more than an artificial construct of Greek propaganda. They say they are Greek because since the occupation of Greek occupied Macedonia the Greek educational system has been telling them that they are Greeks and punishing them for feeling Macedonian.

[ATHANASIOS]

No, the answer to my question is NONE, you had NONE. Now to prove the second part of your statement please explain to me the battle of Chaeronea in 338 when the MAcedonians kicked some Greek arse?

Oh I am not going anywhere, trust me

if you dont open your hears and your eyes it is vain
i gave you an answer
i hardly getting one from you.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Athanasios, can you explain how one would open their 'hears'? And when you're done, you can respond to my question regarding your modern culture and its relation to the culture of the ancient Hellenes. As far as I am aware, the only people that follow ancient Hellenic culture in modern Greece are the below:

Tryphon Olympios, founder of the Return of Hellenes movement, presides over a baby-naming ceremony at the foot of Mount Olympus.

For some modern Greeks and a growing number of foreigners, conventional ways of embracing Greece's rich past are insufficient. A perusal of Herodotus or an excursion to the Acropolis lack the personal satisfaction of participating in something larger than oneself. They want to live according to ancient ways, and to bring those ways to life through themselves.

There is no way to confirm the number of followers, but leaders of the very loosely organized movement, commonly referred to as the Hellenes or the Dodecatheon, after the 12 gods of the Greek pantheon, say there are maybe 2,000 hard-core practicing followers, and perhaps 100,000 nationwide who are open to the ideas and pursue some sort of interest. The movement has two main goals: to introduce a reformed version of ancient Greek religion, philosophy, and values to modern Greek society; and to curb the enormous power of the Greek Orthodox Christian Church. Many of the Hellenes' values are based on secular ancient Greek principles. Their mission is spread through self-published books, the Internet, and, on a more local level, discussion groups, courses in ancient Greek, and field trips to archaeological sites. Religious ceremonies and rituals are held both in groups and by individuals, at home and in public. The liturgical texts are largely based on Orphic hymns--invocations to the gods attributed to the mythical singer--and other ancient poetry. Some followers have small statues of the 12 gods on their living room shelves at home.

http://www.archaeology.org/0501/abstracts/letter.html

Is that you in the picture?

You have given no answers so far, you have spammed alot, which sort of makes a knucklehead like you a unique case in this forum because you would usually be gone by now. However, because you are a knucklehead, you sort of make us like even more normal than your people. So keep up the great work.

[George S.]

Ancient macedonian words that are available compare well with todays macedonian words modern or other greek words do not compare well.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Some do, others don't, a number of them are influenced or loan words from Attic or other languages, a number of them may not even be Macedonian per se. Hard to tell from what is available, particularly because most of them come to us through the 5th century records of Hesychius. What cannot be disputed, is the fact that a Macedonian language existed that was distinct from the ancient Hellenic dialects and was generally considered barbaric and foreign by the Hellenes.

[George S.]

At the battle of chaeronea Macedonians kicked the greeks butt.Question if the macedonians & greeks are the same people why did they FIGHT each other.
The Greeks were never macedonian.Also how come after alexander the great centuries later Greece waged antimacedonian wars against macedonia.Why did the romans make distinction & created seperate provinces one from greece & one from macedonia.?How come greece was never one country until 1829!.Macedonia was one country until 1913.Maps show how one country became partitioned.Greece never before claimed or set foot on Macedonian territory before.How come the greeks called it the occupied territories if it was liberated proof that they never even considered macedonia as theirs before.How can one country belong to three other countries & all of them say that it belongs to them.HIstory shows that greece was not satisfied with her share & wanted more.