Vasil Iljov and the Inscriptions in Macedonia

[Soldier of Macedon]

I wish he would pull his head in a bit, because assuming that some of the finds are in fact genuine........

Pelister, can you define what you mean by 'genuine' finds? Are you referring to his methodology on the screenshot or his suggestion that people from the neanderthal era used the word Macedonia?

I am going to look at his website again, so I can summarise what he says and determine if there is any validity to it. I am positive there are some things worth taking a closer look, but I won't be paying much regard to anything prior to 10,000 BC.

[Vangelovski]

discover his site and u will get the answer

http://www.unet.com.mk/ancient-macedonians-part2/

Dimko, its hard to understand Vasil's incoherent ramblings - all I can make out is a jumble of symbols he seems to either have discovered, copied from existing sources or maybe made up. On one page he provides six samples, which to me look like completely different alphabets. Why would the Macedonians have six alphabets? Most people can barely use one competently, let alone six!

Further, I don't think that Vasil quite understands they concept of "mythological".

[Pelister]

Pelister, can you define what you mean by 'genuine' finds? Are you referring to his methodology on the screenshot or his suggestion that people from the neanderthal era used the word Macedonia?

I am going to look at his website again, so I can summarise what he says and determine if there is any validity to it. I am positive there are some things worth taking a closer look, but I won't be paying much regard to anything prior to 10,000 BC.

There may well be rocks in the region with these kinds of scatchings and markings on them. I believe that there is a cave in Bulgaria where these kinds of markings had been found, back in the 1950's (?). It is possible that Vasil has 'copied' the markings found in these other locations. I'm saying it is 'possible' he has done this, but it is equally possible his finds are genuine, in the sense that he found them as they were in rocks, in the ground, in caves and elsewhere, i.e., no tampering, and although that is a concern, I'm not prepared to discount what he has found altogether simply because people here are expressing a personal opinion that his claims can't be true. The region has buried beneath the censorship and silence of our colonial rulers, and even Communism for that matter. Consider, for example, the fact there there are over 30 'Thraco-Brygian' tombs on the territory of Greek occupied Macedonia, that have been permanently closed, by the Greek government. Its a gateway between three continents, and a very fertile valley - anything is possible.

[Soldier of Macedon]

....possible his finds are genuine, in the sense that he found them as they were in rocks, in the ground, in caves and elsewhere, i.e., no tampering.....

I haven't disputed the authenticity of the rocks, but what the scratchings on those rocks represent. Why don't you address the more important issue of the methodology he uses to 'decipher' the scratchings, as in the screenshot example?

I'm not prepared to discount what he has found altogether simply because people here are expressing a personal opinion that his claims can't be true

With all due respect mate, you should give a bit of credit where credit is due, as I have provided more than just an 'opinion'. People like yourself, Dimko and Indigen have, at times, vehemently defended Iljov, rather than just providing your own personal opinions, how about you present Iljov's case in a convincing manner. Are you able to do that? I think if you were, you would have already did it, but instead, you choose to limit scrutiny in favour of 'hope' that he may be on to something.

I guess we have diametrically opposed ways on how we perceive such matters, as some of you allow patriotism to blind you from the obvious. Vangelovski is a staunch patriot, but he himself can clearly see what Iljov is trying to sell here, not sure why the rest of you are having so much difficulty with it.

[Soldier of Macedon]

On one page he provides six samples, which to me look like completely different alphabets. Why would the Macedonians have six alphabets? Most people can barely use one competently, let alone six!

The people of the Balkans appear to have used a linear script as the one uncovered in Kostur some time back. Some of the letters in these linear scripts may or may not have been incorporated in, or had contact with, the more dominant Phoenician, which eventually surpassed all alphabets in Europe.

[Dimko-piperkata]

Dimko, its hard to understand Vasil's incoherent ramblings - all I can make out is a jumble of symbols he seems to either have discovered, copied from existing sources or maybe made up. On one page he provides six samples, which to me look like completely different alphabets. Why would the Macedonians have six alphabets? Most people can barely use one competently, let alone six!

Further, I don't think that Vasil quite understands they concept of "mythological".

I always see only one through the time..where are your six ?

[Vangelovski]

Dimko,

That's the jumble of letters. Where do they come from? Not the few samples that he's supposedly found.


The six samples I was refering to are here (bottom of page):

http://www.unet.com.mk/ancient-macedonians-part2/spomenici-e.htm

You still have not addressed anything about his methodology - the age of the rocks vs the date the inscriptions were made or how he even decifered those samples without any further information? Where has he found all these other letters in the chart that you have just provided? Where are the incriptions containing those symbols?

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

Here's something good http://my.opera.com/ancientmacedonia...y-set-alphabet

[Vangelovski]

Here's something good http://my.opera.com/ancientmacedonia...y-set-alphabet

This is just a bunch of unsubstantiated statements...

[Soldier of Macedon]

Lol, well I saw one thing that could be possible, the cuneiform origin of scripts in the eastern world. Much of the rest in the link is based on Iljov, although I don't recall seeing anything about 102010 year old inscriptions.

[George S.]

Vasil needs to coorborate his findings more before he can be taken seriously un the scientific community.What he keeps finding is far fetched i'm sure he has good intentions but with very little back up no one is going to beleive it.

[Pelister]

I haven't disputed the authenticity of the rocks, but what the scratchings on those rocks represent. Why don't you address the more important issue of the methodology he uses to 'decipher' the scratchings, as in the screenshot example?

With all due respect mate, you should give a bit of credit where credit is due, as I have provided more than just an 'opinion'. People like yourself, Dimko and Indigen have, at times, vehemently defended Iljov, rather than just providing your own personal opinions, how about you present Iljov's case in a convincing manner. Are you able to do that? I think if you were, you would have already did it, but instead, you choose to limit scrutiny in favour of 'hope' that he may be on to something.

I guess we have diametrically opposed ways on how we perceive such matters, as some of you allow patriotism to blind you from the obvious. Vangelovski is a staunch patriot, but he himself can clearly see what Iljov is trying to sell here, not sure why the rest of you are having so much difficulty with it.

I can't speak for Dimko and Indigen, and I don't think we are in the same 'boat' or should be.

For the most part I agree with all the points you and Tom have raised about Ilyov. I have always said that I have questions about his method, about his 'finds' and I have suspected for a while that some of them may be forgeries. I've made all these points in the last three or four posts of this thread clear. I can see your point of view, and I can see your skepticism about Ilyov, because I have the same concerns, but I am not prepared to write him off, because I think he is onto something there. His more bizarre claims in recent times don't do him any favors, and such claims draw alot of negative attention, but I believe the genuine finds tell a story about a dark and distant past - our past, even though his approach might be all wrong. I have to concede that in this case my patriotism is probably blinding me to an extent, but I have tried to keep an open mind, and although all you criticisms are valid, and which I share, I have to say again that I think he is onto something, however flawed his approach might be. Despite his qerks, he is far more qualified than me in the subject, and apart from one to two apparently outrageous claims - the rest looks reasonably solid, but again, I won't be convinced until he can bring in outsiders to scrutinize his methods. I suppose thats where I have always stood on the issue.

[Soldier of Macedon]

...I have to say again that I think he is onto something, however flawed his approach might be. Despite his qerks, he is far more qualified than me in the subject, and apart from one to two apparently outrageous claims - the rest looks reasonably solid.....

Pelister, what exactly do you think he is onto? Do you have an example of Iljov's to cite?

[George S.]

I you are presenting a new finding you have to present real evidence.On illov the jury is still out there is no concrete evidence & it seems wishy washy at best.The fact is no one is going to beleive it it is just too far fetched.No one is taking Illov seriously because he hasn't got hard concrete evidence available.The thing that lets him down is whils't some things might be true he makes wild statements of which he can't back up it's called wild speculation.I don't think his activities are really helping the macedonian cause when there is a huge cry for real evidence to come out to prove the existence of macedonians.Another writer that is virtually on the same band wagon is donevski,we are still waiting on his reports of ancient macedonian writers that are suppossedly going to negate all greek claims to macedonia??Again where is the real evidence?

[Soldier of Macedon]

I am going to merge this thread with the one I started regarding Iljov, all of this discussion should be in the one place.