Vasil Iljov and the Inscriptions in Macedonia

[Soldier of Macedon]

Another writer that is virtually on the same band wagon is donevski,we are still waiting on his reports of ancient macedonian writers that are suppossedly going to negate all greek claims to macedonia??Again where is the real evidence?

George, start a new thread on Donevski if you have some credible examples to cite.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Here is something that I would consider looking into further, but again, Iljov 'reveals' little detail.

http://www.unet.com.mk/ancient-macedonians-part2/spomenici7-e.htm

He is claiming that there was a Kirilica type alphabet well before the 9th century, through some story about "Trp Ruen", here is his take on it:

....probably the year 567 (or the IXth cent. A.D.) because on the ninth row of the facsimile of the little plank number 15 of the oak planks with the length of 38 cm, width 22 cm and thickness of 6 up to 10 mm on the so called “VLESOVA KNIGA” “VLESOVA KNIGA” (“In Wood Book”), that is “V LES KNIG” “V LES KNIG”........Even though we don’t have access and inspection to all the facsimiles of the “V LES KNIG” (“V LES KNIG”) and are aware of the mistakes that J.P. Miroljubov could make while blindly copying the unfamiliar content, which for him was written with an unknown alphabet and with an unknown language, even so, from the deciphered accessible facsimile on the wooden plank number 15 the notion importunes that both the letter alphabet and the language which Trp Ruen used are much closer to their ancient macedonian base then they are to the familiar middleage modifications of the reformers Kiril and Metodi and of Kliment Ohridski.

The fact that the colonel of the russian army Theodor Arturovich Izenbek (1890 - 1941) found the original oak planks of the “V LES KNIG” (“V LES KNIG”) by chance in 1919 in Velikiy Burluk – estates of the Zadonian courtiers close to the town Volchanska in the Kurs governory in Russia as part of the nobles home relics in 1922. Ali Izenbek via Constantinopole and France transferred them into Belgium in Brussels and in 1941 probably the special services of the SS (for instance the institute Anerbe) got hold of them and destroyed them as possible traces of the ancient slav culture, absolutely nothing is said about the origins and place of dwelling and working of the author Trp Ruen as a scientist, composer and cutter of the planks of “V LES KNIG” (“V LES KNIG”). However, if we keep in mind that the mountain Ruen is in Macedonian, that the language that Trp Ruen used is closest to the east dialects of the macedonian literary language and if we also bear in mind that Trp Ruen almost completely used the base and the peculiarities of the vocal and consonantal system of the ancient macedonian alphabet then it becomes clear that the author of “V LES KNIG” (“ V LES KNIG”) has his roots in Macedonia that is somewhere in the surroundings of the Ruen mountain and whether the oldest history of the slav people has one author or three authors and how the oak planks “wandered” off and were completed throughout the big wide world is a mater of separate research.

Take note on his methodology for working certain things out. Here is the 'plank':

and this appropriately translated in modern macedonian literal language sounds:

“RECKANO E 6075 KAJ SNAATA COJA.
TRP RUEN - (U)CEN OD OVOJ DVOREC”


“RECKANO E 6075 KAJ SNAATA COJA.
TRP RUEN - (U)CHEN OD OVOJ DVOREC”

“IT IS COU OUT (WRITTEN) 6075 AT THE DAUGHTER – IN – LAW’S TSOYA
TRP RUEN EDUCATED FROM THIS COURT”.

Dimko, can you get a higher resolution picture?

[makedonin]

Would that do SoM?


Somewhat sharper:



and vectorized:

[Bratot]

What are you discussing actually, what is the point you are trying to make?

[Soldier of Macedon]

What are you discussing actually, what is the point you are trying to make?

First of all, who are you addressing your question to? And second, what exactly don't you understand about what is being discussed?

[Pelister]

Pelister, what exactly do you think he is onto? Do you have an example of Iljov's to cite?

Is it possible that he has stumbled across an ancient proto-Slavic language in the balkans? I think it is. I can't verify it, and I have to rely on his method even though I know very little about such things, and I am certain that he really should open his methods and findings to wider public and international scrutiny if he is to have any credibility, but the markings in the cave in Bulgaria match the markings found near Skopje, and then there is the 'book' found near Kostur. Its all interesting stuff. The question is do I trust him? I'm not sure whether I do. I believe that any information that may potentially add to our understanding of the region, must be shared. But when I see (on the net, and there is another problem) them I see a written language - others probably see a bundle of random sratchings, but I'm not convinced that that is what they are.

I think that discovering the provenance of an object is a critical element in all of this, but by no means the only one.

The fact that the colonel of the russian army Theodor Arturovich Izenbek (1890 - 1941) found the original oak planks of the “V LES KNIG” (“V LES KNIG”) by chance in 1919 in Velikiy Burluk...

This for mine is an important step, because it at least rules out tampering, or a forgery by Vasil himself (assuming that is what he has been doing). That them leaves his method of deciphering which I know very little about.

[George S.]

is there any chance that we can have some kind of feedback from vasil himself on this forum or in some way ?

[Soldier of Macedon]

I would say there is a better chance of getting Gruevski on the forum.

[Bratot]

First of all, who are you addressing your question to? And second, what exactly don't you understand about what is being discussed?

Since I didn't adressed to anyone particularly it means to all of you discussing.

It's not about something I don't understand of what is posted, but what is the point with those alphabets comparison.

No one here is enough specialized to draw any scientifically supported conclusions and at this moment look like we further expand the ludicrously statements of Iljov.

The ancient literacy can not be observed from today's national point of view, we lack the information of the origin of the people and also the origin of these signs/letters.
Loking for connections throught territorial findings only that fit nowadays borders is merely silliness.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Since I didn't adressed to anyone particularly it means to all of you discussing.

Well, since we have a number of people involved in the discussion there are multiple points being made, so you should be more specific and address your question directly.

No one here is enough specialized to draw any scientifically supported conclusions......

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. What do you mean by "specialized"? An education backed by a piece of paper? Is that what one requires before they can have their logical assessments considered 'scientifically supported conclusions'? Did you enter this discussion to tell us this or to contribute in a way that can be considered constructive?

.......and at this moment look like we further expand the ludicrously statements of Iljov.

What we are actually doing is trying to put some of his theories to the test, nothing wrong that.

[Bratot]

Well, since we have a number of people involved in the discussion there are multiple points being made, so you should be more specific and address your question directly.

I will have that on mind the next time.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. What do you mean by "specialized"? An education backed by a piece of paper? Is that what one requires before they can have their logical assessments considered 'scientifically supported conclusions'? Did you enter this discussion to tell us this or to contribute in a way that can be considered constructive?

Educational background can be only helpful in bringing more supported arguments.

I doub't that you would go to your hairdresser for advice how to play on the stock market.

One thing is to make insightful observations but other is to have them confirmed.

This can be attached to Iljov but also to every other mindless excursion trying to support some claim driven by patriotic excitement.

What we are actually doing is trying to put some of his theories to the test, nothing wrong that.

Nothing wrong indeed, but it's good to have on mind what I mentioned in order not to get in another fictional moment.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I doub't that you would go to your hairdresser for advice how to play on the stock market.

The analogy is wrong, so I don't see the relevance in your comparison.

One thing is to make insightful observations but other is to have them confirmed.

Does one need a degree to give their opinion a sense of confirmation? Again, did you enter this discussion to inform us of this? There is a lot of revisionism that goes on, in many cases it is required, so long as it is done logically.

Nothing wrong indeed, but it's good to have on mind what I mentioned in order not to get in another fictional moment.

When was I in a 'fictional moment' in the first place?

[Bratot]

Well, I'll not obstinately oppose you to the point of getting in argument.

In the same manner you called Iljov to confront his claims and to get them widely confirmed I wanted to forewarn of repeating his fictional moment, that's all.

[Pelister]

I would say there is a better chance of getting Gruevski on the forum.

I agree. I've sent him two letters asking him to consider the task of opening up his work to international scrutiny. He hasn't replied, and it was some time ago, now.

[Soldier of Macedon]

In the same manner you called Iljov to confront his claims and to get them widely confirmed I wanted to forewarn of repeating his fictional moment, that's all.

Unlike Iljov, I am here to be confronted on any claim I make. Your analogies don't make sense and if you're trying to compare the direction I am headed to Iljov's "fictional moment" then my point of view on this topic seems to have gone way over your head.

I agree. I've sent him two letters asking him to consider the task of opening up his work to international scrutiny. He hasn't replied, and it was some time ago, now.

Don't hold your breath.