Macedonians in the East Roman Empire

[TrueMacedonian]

Perbundus

External Threats

Hearing of his father's assassination, Constantine IV immediately set sail for Sicily and arrived shortly after the rebellion of Mizizius had been put down. During the winter, he was able to reassert imperial authority over the troops and in the spring he brought them back to Constantinople. The first major threat that Constantine faced was the advance of the Arabs. Building upon gains made during Constans II's reign, Mucawiya attacked Sicily, North Africa, and Anatolia. Soon, it was clear to the emperor that Mucawiya was focused on bringing his forces to bear against the capital city of Constantinople itself. In 670 Arab naval forces occupied Cyzicus and established a base for future attacks against the city, and in 672 captured Smyrna. In 674 the Arab fleet began its assault upon Constantinople. With the emperor's attention focused on the Arabs, the Slav chieftain Perbundus made plans to capture Thessalonica. When Constantine learned of Perbundus' plans, he had him executed. The Slavs, angered by the execution, still attacked the city and laid siege to it.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:QL0jOCQz8y0J:www.roman-emperors.org/Constiv.htm+perbundus&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[TrueMacedonian]

Perboundos

http://books.google.com/books?id=9cZ_4yCuQj8C&pg=PA270&lpg=PA270&dq=perboundos&source=bl&ots=TMoSvVzhqO&sig=tVRQxRKrNpQckRiJjkqA0lIPBIQ&hl=en&ei=RQ5USpmYFeSxtweh_fmoCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7

page 269

[Bratot]

Surely it is not a silly idea to consider the theory that Slav in a medieval context is simply Thracian in a historical context?

Herodotus in his History wrote:

"The most populated area after India, is Thrace. If they were under one rule and of one mind, they would have been the mightiest people on earth. But the unity of these peoples have never been achieved, that's the weakest point of the Thracians. They take different names by the area they live around, but they all have common customs and traditions".

http://ziezi.net/trakite.html

Thracian Glossary.

http://indoeuro.bizland.com/project/glossary/thra.html

Sources:
1. Neroznak, V. Paleo-Balkan Languages. Moscow, 1978.
2. Fasmer, M. Etymological Dictionary of the Russian Language. Moscow, 1986.
3. Georgiev, V. Ezyk na trakite.
4. Duridanov, I. Ezikyt na trakite, Sofia, 1976.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Who was Basil of Ohrid, that became Archbishop of Salonika and was a staunch supporter of the division between the Eastern and Western Churches? I haven't found anything yet that elaborates much, only brief citations such as in the links below:

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=PXizk1RZ88wC&pg=PA102&lpg=PA102&dq=basil+of+ochrid,+archbishop+of+thessalonica&source=bl&ots=OPI_JgxGQ0&sig=JEKCcCFwRQPQpqozzkYn9rfmAOI&hl=en&ei=aSdPStDKE4HosQO2ttSqDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/encyc01.html?term=Basil%20of%20Achrida

[Soldier of Macedon]

George Ostrogorski, History of the Byzantine State.

George Ostrogorski, History of the Byzantine State.

Here is a 'Bulgar-centric' view of Bogomilsm on Wiki, some information is of value to confirm events.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogomilism

Bogomilsm took a hold of the Macedonian population in the decades just prior to the rebellion of Samuel and establishment of his empire.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Could "Slav" be a reference to non-Christians or pagans?

The term 'Slav' could have meant multiple things during the same period in history, such as a Pagan at the beginning of the invasions in many cases. However, we must also allow for later references to persons like 'Thomas the Slav' and 'Andrew Craterus', who would most definetly be Christians. Personally, I consider 'Slav' more a developing identity as a result of linguistic awakening, for, while the Thraco-Illyrians may well have had only a vague idea of their affinity with the Danubian Slavs, after the 6th century this commonality was more pronounced and acknowledged.

Surely it is not a silly idea to consider the theory that Slav in a medieval context is simply Thracian in a historical context?

This is most plausable, generic terms were broadly applied, Thracians, Getae, Scythians, Slavs, etc. The fact is, in ancient times there was a population that was considered the largest in Europe and lived in the same territory as the largest linguistic group in Europe today. There can be no dispute as to who are the descendants of the Thracians.

[Risto the Great]

Surely it is not a silly idea to consider the theory that Slav in a medieval context is simply Thracian in a historical context?

[Pelister]

I introduce you to the same, the great and the first city of the Macedonians............

The above was written by John Cametinae. Check the below:

http://www.deremilitari.org/resources/sources/thessaloniki.htm

From the above link, here is an interesting excerpt from the text:



There they are again, the Christians used 'their' neighbouring Slavs as archers - The Slavs, Macedonians, defenders of Salonika against the Muslim attack and Leo the turncoat (who converted to Islam at some stage). Note that there were no neighbouring 'Greeks' to send for.

Could "Slav" be a reference to non-Christians or pagans?

[Risto the Great]

SoM, your attention to detail is yet to disappoint!

[Soldier of Macedon]

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=nYbnr5XVbzUC&pg=PA467&lpg=PA467&dq=Leo+of+Tripoli&source=bl&ots=EzJr63H754&sig=-HJkQ-MNrozrjwl35D2_vApPzB4&hl=en&ei=Mc5MSpPyCov8tQPAtK2rBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9

Treadgold comes to a slightly different conclusion, minimizing the effect that the Slavs had during the siege. Cametinae, a contemporary and witness to the events, clearly has a different account.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I introduce you to the same, the great and the first city of the Macedonians............

The above was written by John Cametinae. Check the below:

http://www.deremilitari.org/resources/sources/thessaloniki.htm

Thessaloniki, one of the largest cities of the Byzantine empire in the early tenth century, was captured and pillaged in 904 by a Muslim force led by Leo of Tripoli. The following account of the short siege comes from John Kaminiates, who was captured and taken as a prisoner with his father and brothers. He wrote a letter to Gregory of Kappadokia while he was in captivity, concluding it around the end of September 905.

From the above link, here is an interesting excerpt from the text:

They (Muslims; My Note) swooped down with their ships towards those points which had been described to them, letting out harsh and savage cries and rowing furiously in the direction of the wall. And banging on rawhide drums, they raised a fearful din, and they tried with many other kinds of bluff to frighten the defenders on the battlements. But those who were manning the wall shouted back even louder and invoked the aid of the saving weapon of the cross against the enemy forces. And they did this to such an effect that the barbarians, at the sound of so many people uttering a cry more fearsome than any they had previously heard, were dazed for a while and did not expect to achieve anything. Estimating the numbers of the citizens from the loudness of their shouts, they concluded that it would be no easy matter to enter the fray against such odds and to sack so great a city, the like of which they had never seen. Nevertheless, in order not to create the impression of having lost their nerve at the start of their offensive, they advanced neither fearlessly, nor with the rage which they later displayed, but with a certain blend of frenzy and fear, protecting themselves against their opponents by means of a barrage of missiles. Then their approach became more reckless and they strove to bring the fighting nearer, rousing themselves to fury like barking dogs and thoroughly enraged by the weapons that were hurled down at them from the wall. The citizens (of Salonika: My Note), in fact, were anything but remiss in their use of archery, and used it to great and conspicuous effect by stationing all the Sklavenes [a southern Slav peoples] gathered from the neighbouring regions at those points from which it was easiest to shoot accurately and where there was nothing to deflect the momentum of their missiles.

There they are again, the Christians used 'their' neighbouring Slavs as archers - The Slavs, Macedonians, defenders of Salonika against the Muslim attack and Leo the turncoat (who converted to Islam at some stage). Note that there were no neighbouring 'Greeks' to send for.

[Soldier of Macedon]

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=InyEqBVhH-EC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=the+great+and+the+first+city+of+the+Macedonians&source=bl&ots=qU_o2PLFXV&sig=yvi9uSkzh0A3jVjehvFQG7rmNMA&hl=en&ei=DMxMSp-HEJP2sQPQkqjpBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2

The above can serve as clear evidence of the continued reference to people of Macedonia Proper as Macedonians (along with those of the Macedonia Theme).

[Soldier of Macedon]

It's said that Slavs raid Crete in 623, so how can be that this Slavic presence can't be applied in same ways for the both sides?

http://history.heraklion.gr/backgrou...vel=2&sid=2329

Exactly the point. Just as much Slavs, if not more, invaded the area known as today's Greece. What needs to be considered is that in ancient Europe, the Thracians were the 'largest population', in medieval Europe, the Slavs were the 'largest population'. The distance between these two groups in the linguistic sense would probably be akin to the distance between Balts and Slavs today, the Thracian language did not disappear, it just evolved with a new linguistic layer from a distant, yet related element. This is also why the Slavonic tribes that settled in Macedonia and Thrace were able to assimilate into the local population within a relatively short period of time as opposed to the tribes that travelled as far south as the Peloponnese. Indeed, while the Morean Slavs were still trying to stake their claim, the Slavonic tribes that had integrated Macedonians and Thracians were already soldiers and loyal citizens of East Rome.

[TrueMacedonian]

According to NGL Hammond the Slavs settled quite a few islands. The theory that you would find "pure" descendents of ancient hellenes in the islands is another myth. Corfu is a perfect example of a multi-racial island.

[Bratot]

It's said that Slavs raid Crete in 623, so how can be that this Slavic presence can't be applied in same ways for the both sides?

http://history.heraklion.gr/background.php?url=hp&id=1841&iid=2329&level=2&sid=2329