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[makedonin]

I would like to answer a question i saw posed in this thread and I have no idea why it wasnt answered...

Sparta was a kingdom. Actually it had 2 ruling kings at the same time ! Are we going to say that spartans werent greek ?

thats all for now. Im going to go into this with babysteps... ;D

The next babystep of yours is to show us where the Spartans were called Barbarians and were not considered to be Hellenes! I hope you know how to reference properly.

After that one, I would like to hear your explanation on what those Ancient people have to do with you today!

I look forward to that one.

[chicagoan]

So what does that have to do with us? Did you somehow tried to sneak on us on back door?

nothing...but then again me being greek has nothing to do with you either. Although i noticed ppl saying that slav is a linguistic definition not ethnic . I do not know from what planet these ppl come from but that cant be further from the truth. I guess that would be a different topic altogether.

[chicagoan]

The next babystep of yours is to show us where the Spartans were called Barbarians and were not considered to be Hellenes! I hope you know how to reference properly.

After that one, I would like to hear your explanation on what those Ancient people have to do with you today!

I look forward to that one.

let me guess, is this the part where you start negating my nationality by calling me arvanoslavturk or subsaharan ? Did MANU ever decide which ones we are ? Id like to know...

in any case, im not here to negate you so dont start negating me or my ethnos. Im here mostly as a pole, not a greek.

To answer your question..that term barbarian was used IMO as a political insult. Just like if I was to call GW Bush a clown. Doesnt mean he really is bozo the clown. Just so you know for each cherry picking sentence you can find to re-inforce the ancient macedonians continuity as non-greeks...I can find another thousand that support the greek thesis. But then that would be " racist " wouldnt it ?

[makedonin]

let me guess, is this the part where you start negating my nationality by calling me arvanoslavturk or subsaharan ? Did MANU ever decide which ones we are ? Id like to know...

in any case, im not here to negate you so dont start negating me or my ethnos. Im here mostly as a pole, not a greek.

I ain't going to negate you. As far as I am concerned, you can be what ever you want to be.

It was really simple question.

You said: Spartans were also Kingdom.

Your logic behind was: Sparta was Kingdom comparable to Ancient Macedonia, and since Spartans were considered Greeks, Macedonians had to be also Greeks.

That is why I asked you to provide sources where Spartans were considered non Hellenes and were called Barbarians all comparable to Ancient Macedonians.

I hope you get that.

And as for the next step, I asked you to prove your so called link with those Ancient people, since you tend to build some imaginary connection. Prove me that I am wrong, and you don't do that.

To answer your question..that term barbarian was used IMO as a political insult.

And the Political Insult is only in your head dude, and is only recent development by your Propagandist teachers, who were looking to somehow dump all those references to the Ancient Macedonians as Barbarians.

The challenge still remains, show us at least one quote where those who were considered Greeks were labeled Barbarians, as you like to tell us out of political reasons. It should be easy for you to start by Spartans and Athenians who slaughtered them in many wars.

Also I guess all those Thracians, Illyrians, Persians etc were also Greeks who got politically labeled Barbarians.

Now back to the real world, what was it?

mid-14c., from M.L. barbarinus (cf. O.Fr. barbarin "Berber, pagan, Saracen, barbarian"), from L. barbaria "foreign country," from Gk. barbaros "foreign, strange, ignorant," from PIE base *barbar- echoic of unintelligible speech of foreigners (cf. Skt. barbara- "stammering," also "non-Aryan"). Greek barbaroi (n.) meant "all that are not Greek," but especially the Medes and Persians. Originally not entirely pejorative, its sense darkened after the Persian wars. The Romans (technically themselves barbaroi) took up the word and applied it to tribes or nations which had no Greek or Roman accomplishments.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=barbarian

In other words, it was used by Greeks to distinguish the foreigners from them, since the foreigners did not speak Greek.

[makedonin]

Although i noticed ppl saying that slav is a linguistic definition not ethnic .

Slavic is linguistic Group, you can check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages

It is actually sub group of the larger Balto-Slavic (e.g. Russian, Lithuanian) linguistic group.

You yet have to prove us that it is Ethnic one.

[chicagoan]

Slavic is linguistic Group, you can check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages

It is actually sub group of the larger Balto-Slavic (e.g. Russian, Lithuanian) linguistic group.

You yet have to prove us that it is Ethnic one.

uh yes...it is. But you cant tell me as a person of polish descent that its not an ethnic one either. Not only poles, but ukranian, russian to an extent, czechs..ect..

Ppl that say its only linguistic are probably ashamed for some reason. Im not....im damn proud and i wont tolerate anybody telling me that slavs dont exist as an ethic entity. Speak for yourself mate....

[chicagoan]

I ain't going to negate you. As far as I am concerned, you can be what ever you want to be.

It was really simple question.

You said: Spartans were also Kingdom.

Your logic behind was: Sparta was Kingdom comparable to Ancient Macedonia, and since Spartans were considered Greeks, Macedonians had to be also Greeks.

That is why I asked you to provide sources where Spartans were considered non Hellenes and were called Barbarians all comparable to Ancient Macedonians.

I hope you get that.

And as for the next step, I asked you to prove your so called link with those Ancient people, since you tend to build some imaginary connection. Prove me that I am wrong, and you don't do that.



And the Political Insult is only in your head dude, and is only recent development by your Propagandist teachers, who were looking to somehow dump all those references to the Ancient Macedonians as Barbarians.

The challenge still remains, show us at least one quote where those who were considered Greeks were labeled Barbarians, as you like to tell us out of political reasons. It should be easy for you to start by Spartans and Athenians who slaughtered them in many wars.

Also I guess all those Thracians, Illyrians, Persians etc were also Greeks who got politically labeled Barbarians.

Now back to the real world, what was it?



In other words, it was used by Greeks to distinguish the foreigners from them, since the foreigners did not speak Greek.

Im not going to go there. Im not even going to waste my time answering back to those comments you made. I can find references that would counter yours but that would be an endless viscous cycle that would end up in me being banned for " propaganda ".

History cannot be re-written. Not now, not ever...

[chicagoan]

btw...i like your signature and fully agree with it. Isocrates was way ahead of his time.

[makedonin]

Im not going to go there.

History cannot be re-written. Not now, not ever...

Of course you aren't.

History ain't being rewritten. Only it's interpretation is being corrected.

That is all.

would end up in me being banned for " propaganda ".

you don't have to worry about being banned. you are on the best way to end like that.

with the way you parrot things is the highway to your bann.

[chicagoan]

^^^whatever...i wont lose sleep over it.
just pretty pathetic you ppl cant see past your hate. Even siding with muslims like turks ( which btw i have nothing against ). But just the simple fact that your doing, as if your trying to score points against us or something is pretty retarded.

There are extremists on both sides of the fence, but you guys right now is where we were back in the nineties. Nationalism really puts a hurt on a country. It cost Greece a lot and it will cost you as well. I hope that we can really solve this..as far as im concerned we can be allies and good ones if only your politicians and espescially your diaspora takes a more mature outlook on future relations. Anyway, there is a get together friday with the PM's about prespa lakes. Hopefully that will go well.

[Risto the Great]

uh yes...it is. But you cant tell me as a person of polish descent that its not an ethnic one either. Not only poles, but ukranian, russian to an extent, czechs..ect..

Ppl that say its only linguistic are probably ashamed for some reason. Im not....im damn proud and i wont tolerate anybody telling me that slavs dont exist as an ethic entity. Speak for yourself mate....

Try to tell a Pole, Ukranian or Russian that they are not Polish, Ukranian or Russian ... but actually Slavs.

Your attempts to bundle Macedonians into this fake ethnicity is offensive. This is what maggots like you are trying to pass of as reason.

On the other hand, I am positive the former Turkish nationals with an Orthodox persuasion were a distinct ethnicity and nothing like the Greeks of today. Try to define yourselves a little better before coming here.

[chicagoan]

hey risto...i didnt bundle you into anything. I am a polak ( means polish man..) ) and if a person told me I am a slav I would tell him " no shit.. ". Thats what we are as polish ppl. We are one of the most purest slavs might I add. Ukrainians are pretty damn close as well. Russians have a lot of viking, tatar elements in them so they are not as much. Seems like ppl here are missing the obvious and choking on a tablespoon of water. If you ppl have beef with slavs then thats your problem. But dont tell me that we are not an ethnic group. Go ahead..find a polish, ukranian person and tell them they are not slavic. Thats when you might find yourself in a peculiar situation, not the opposite.

That being said...if you feel that you are not than I couldnt care less. Im not here to spin a different angle or anything. But dont be ignorant either in saying we are not an ethnic group. Thats just being stupid and offensive...

oh and your comparison to a turkish national with an orthodox persuasion is a poor attempt in making a point and doesnt come close to reality.

[Bill77]

Although i noticed ppl saying that slav is a linguistic definition not ethnic

Hey before you Go you racist pig. First and foremost one must keep in mind that the language used by people does not by itself identify their ethnicity. We communicate in English, and we all come from different ethnic backgrounds. South American countries use the Spanish language, (Brazil excluded), and yet, not everyone is Spanish. History is replete with examples where people speak the same language yet identify themselves as ethnically different.

You make plenty of claims, but do not answer. its the Greek arab blood in you.

[Risto the Great]

Go ahead..find a polish, ukranian person and tell them they are not slavic. Thats when you might find yourself in a peculiar situation, not the opposite.

I told you to go ahead and find a polish/ukranian/russian person and tell them they are not polish/ukranian/russian. Idiot.

Maggot Greeks deny this fundamental observation all the time.

Why am I even discussing this with a maggot like you?

oh and your comparison to a turkish national with an orthodox persuasion is a poor attempt in making a point and doesnt come close to reality.

I thought it was excellent, you tried to pass off some bullshit as a means of defining an ethnicity. Yet people who could not even speak Greek qualify! Brilliant deductions. Got any other pearlers?

[Daskalot]

I already answered that question when I had to sign up for this forum. As a matter of fact I had to answer it twice cause of a password reset I requested.

You guys are taking this to a ridiculously to almost insane approach. Christ not even in the greek forums do they make you do that...

btw, im half polish so chill out...

So you are half Polish, what is the other half then? Greek?