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[MacedonianHellene]

PS: That argument that Greece started using the name Macedonia after 1990's is bogus, so bogus, that it gives nobody who seriously believes it any credit.

It is simply not true. For one, not to mention other evidence, a look at a multitude of Greek newspapers in the late 1800's will help you dismiss this belief which I hear from you guys.

But that's a PS, lets focus on the problem we face today.

How do we separate ourselves?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Why don't you quote Alexanders speech after the battle of Chaeronia, over the dead soldiers.

Which quote, from Rufus? I have his book in my hands right now. Can you show me the quote and the chapter, page, etc?

How do we separate ourselves?

Simple, you read what I wrote before.

We are Macedonians, you are Greeks.

This part of the discussion is over. Deal with reality. Or I will deal with your inability to accept reality.

[MacedonianHellene]

Deal with reality. Or I will deal with your inability to accept reality.

So much for your hatred of fascistic practices..

I see your reasearch skills are exeptional...

A quote and some links from your ancient Greek link: (Because your vision seems selective, or maybe you need glasses)
The city-states had many things in common. They all believed in the same gods. They all spoke the same language. But if you asked an ancient Greek where he was from, he would not say, "I live in Greece." If he was from Sparta, he would say, "I am a Spartan." If he lived in Athens, he would say, "I am Athenian." The city-states might band together to fight a common foe. But they also went to war with each other. Greece was not yet one country. Ancient Greece was a collection of Greek city-states

Because Greece was not yet one country, there was no central government in ancient Greece. Greece was never unified until it was conquered by Alexander the Great. It remained a collection of city-states.
====

Macedonia was a kingdom, not a city state.

The Macedonian Royal House:

http://www.livius.org/he-hg/herodotus/hist15.html

Links from the same website, you sent me:
Famous ancient Greeks:

http://greece.mrdonn.org/lessonplans/people.html

Alexander, the Great Greek*

http://greece.mrdonn.org/lessonplans/people.html

(Oh and this last one is for teachers, not for kids, where my accuser better start from and learn what accepting reality means..)

*Alexanders ancestry:

http://www.livius.org/aj-al/alexander/alexander_z4.html

Now on a serious note, I think most of you will find this helpful and beneficial, if not very insightfull.
It sums up quite well most issues about Ancient Macedonia, and beyond.
(Its for grown ups though, so kids may stay at the kids classes):

http://www.livius.org/maa-mam/macedonia/macedonia.html

Hope you enjoy the last link.

[Soldier of Macedon]

So much for your hatred of fascistic practices..

Indeed. If you deny my people's right to their Macedonian identity, which they possess in state, culture, language and ethnicity, then you are fascist and a racist. You don't agree? Would you like for me to deny your right to identify your language, ethnicity, culture and state as Greek? Am I not a fascist and a racist if I do so? We are in the 21st century mate, we are the Macedonians, you are the Greeks.

Why don't you quote Alexanders speech after the battle of Chaeronia, over the dead soldiers.

Which quote, from Rufus? I have his book in my hands right now. Can you show me the quote and the chapter, page, etc?

I asked you a question - Which quote, from Rufus? I have his book in my hands right now. Can you show me the quote and the chapter, page, etc?

I see your reasearch skills are exeptional...

Oh don't worry, they are. Now please cite the chapter, page, etc of this apparent "quote" from Alexander after Chaeronea over the dead soldiers.

I have only ever seen this quote linked to racist Greek forums. I have read Curtius Rufus' book countless times, yet this quote I have never seen. Ever. Except when promoted by Greek racists.

Now, either show us which section of his book this apparent "quote" is located, or admit that you just tried to pass off a lying piece of trash and propaganda as the truth.

[Bill77]

PS: That argument that Greece started using the name Macedonia after 1990's is bogus, so bogus, that it gives nobody who seriously believes it any credit.

It is simply not true. For one, not to mention other evidence, a look at a multitude of Greek newspapers in the late 1800's will help you dismiss this belief which I hear from you guys.

But that's a PS, lets focus on the problem we face today.

How do we separate ourselves?

Yes you will find millions of newspaper articles from around the world mentioning Macedonia not just Greek papers. This proves Macedonia existed. What the issue is A) who lived in this Macedonia for thousands of years prior to 1913 that has the Rightful ownership of the Name. B) Greece ethnic clensing of these Macedonians and Hellenising the teritory After 1913.

You are afraid of talking about ancient history. Why i beleive this is so, is because on a few ocations you ask to divert from it and lets talk about your alcahol produced on Macedonian soil. So lets talk more about recent history where we have whitnesses still alive from the Greek opression period which is still around till this day.

Who lived in Macedonia? Here is just a tip of the iceberg evidence,

Volker und Sprachenkarte der B kan - Halbinsel 1924, Leipzig

SPRACHENKARTE (language map), which means that not only the Macedonian population, but also the Macedonian language is mapped.
check what the Green coloured mark refers to on the bottom left corner and follow the colour on the map of Macedonia.




This was found in a greek Geography and Nationality Educational Book

Πληθυσμός: Μακεδόνες =Population: Macedonians
γλώσσα: μακεδονική =Language: Macedonian





And some quotes from Your Albanian Heroes Pavlos Melas and Spiros Melas,

Pavlos Melas (Greek, soldier, 1904): Kotas (Konstantin Hristov) speaks Macedonian………..

Spiros Melas (Greek, soldier, 1913): Occasionally, all of a sudden a village woman would step out and start swearing in her own difficult Macedonian language, then, our soldiers would surround her and offering her money would demand bread, wine, brandy or oil.


Here are some other quotes,

Karl Hron (Austrian, publicist, 1890): It may be shown, from their history as well as from their language, that the Macedonians are neither Serbs nor Bulgarians, but rather a separate ethnic group….

Georgi Bakalov (Bulgarian, 1890): In the villages of Macedonia, one meets peasants of a single nationality speaking a Slavic language and belonging to the Eastern Orthodox faith. Nine out of ten of these people, despite their being the subject of dispute between three adjoining countries, would reply in response to the question as go their nationality, that they were Macedonian.

Paul Argyriades (French, socialst, 1896): The Macedonians do not want the kind of caresses which may strangle them. They want to remain Macedonians without any other epithet, guarding for themselves their beautiful Macedonia…………

William Gladstone (British, prime minister, 1897): Why not Macedonia for the Macedonians, as well as Bulgaria for the Bulgarians and is Servia for the Servians?

Regina Wyon (British, traveler-writer, 1903): We were a cosmopolitan gathering. There was Dr. S., a Roumanian, an Austrian ornithologist, a Scotchman, our innkeeper was a Macedonian, and two or three Montenegrins……… Macedonians, Greeks, and even pure-blooded Turks……….

Rene Picard (French, 1916): There is and, in fact, there has always been a Macedonian spirit in Macedonia.


Professor R.A. Reiss reports to the Greek government: "Those whom you would call Bulgarian speakers I would simply call Macedonians...Macedonian is not the language they speak in Sofia...I repeat the mass of inhabitants there (Macedonia) remain simply Macedonians."


And Finaly, This.

The ominous prophecy of Harilaos Trikoupis, Greek Prime Minister from 1882 to 1895, foretold what the neighboring Greek state had in mind for Macedonia and its people:
"When the great war comes, Macedonia will become Greek or Bulgarian, accordin...g to who wins. If it is taken by the Bulgarians, they will turn the population into Slavs. If we take it, we will make all of them into Greeks".

Hang on, was not Macedonia already Greek long ago acording to your people? so how do you Hellenise Greeks? And acording to your people, was not The Macedonian population slavs? so how can Bulgarians turn something in to something that already is the case?

Now can you tell Me Honestly, who should change there name, and who rightfully should be called Macedonians. So this realy is a problem of yours and not ours.

PS: these above must have been Tito's Freinds

[MacedonianHellene]

Macedonia is not what it used to be.
Countless tribes have walked the lands of GEOGRAPHIC Macedonia.

I am not saying it is Greek only. I do not believe this.
That is what I'm saying all along!
How do we separate Macedonian Greeks, from your Macedonians?

As for the quote on Alexander, you will have it soon.

As for the last picture you posted, you forgot to underline in red, that they are all refered to as NortSlavs.(I'm not saying it. Its there.)

And yes, the Macedonian language was existent back then, but if you research it, you will find that it is a Slav related language, and not related with the ancient one, which was a dialect that even Greeks could not understand, until it was gradually replaced by Koine Greek..

Again I recommend all to check out this link:
In the meantime, check my last link: http://www.livius.org/maa-mam/macedonia/macedonia.html.

Now goodnight cause its late.

To be continued then..

[Soldier of Macedon]

How do we separate Macedonian Greeks, from your Macedonians?

That has already been explained to you. You live in the 21st century, if you continue to pretend to live in the 4th century BC, we can make you history.

And yes, the Macedonian language was existent back then, but if you research it, you will find that it is a Slav related language

But it was recognized by Greeks back then. When did you get amnesia?

As for the quote on Alexander, you will have it soon.

Sure, we'll be right here, go and have some sleep, you must be in a mental overload at the moment. Perhaps when you wake up you will be able to find it.

[Bill77]

Macedonia is not what it used to be.
Countless tribes have walked the lands of GEOGRAPHIC Macedonia.

I am not saying it is Greek only. I do not believe this.

As for the last picture you posted, you forgot to underline in red, that they are all refered to as NortSlavs.(I'm not saying it. Its there.)

And yes, the Macedonian language was existent back then, but if you research it, you will find that it is a Slav related language, and not related with the ancient one, which was a dialect that even Greeks could not understand, until it was gradually replaced by Koine Greek..

God where do i start. There are so many points to pick.

A) Quote: "Macedonia is not what it used to be.
Countless tribes have walked the lands of GEOGRAPHIC Macedonia."

yet evidence shows Our Macedonian language existed long before and still does evan after all the invasions.

B) Quote: "As for the last picture you posted, you forgot to underline in red, that they are all refered to as NortSlavs.(I'm not saying it. Its there.)"

Don't Forget the text comes from a Greek Book. Second of all, it clearly shows; γλώσσα: = Language: μακεδονική: = Macedonian Regardless of where they imagined we came from. Such a paradoxical statement is expected when one tries to hide the truth.

C) "And yes, the Macedonian language was existent back then, but if you research it, you will find that it is a Slav related language, and not related with the ancient one,"

Thanks for admiting it in your first part of your sentence. But the rest, why don't you Prove Macedonian language came from the slav and not vice versa, And also not related with the ancient one. If you make these claims, please you must show evidence if you want us to take you seriously.

D) Quote: "until it was gradually replaced by Koine Greek.."

Again, what did they replace? And you are corectly implying that the Modern Greek (Koine) language is not an indigenous language to the land.

[Daskalot]

PS: That argument that Greece started using the name Macedonia after 1990's is bogus, so bogus, that it gives nobody who seriously believes it any credit.

It is simply not true. For one, not to mention other evidence, a look at a multitude of Greek newspapers in the late 1800's will help you dismiss this belief which I hear from you guys.

But that's a PS, lets focus on the problem we face today.

How do we separate ourselves?

I have already given you my answer, please read it and understand what it says, then we can discuss what to do. There is no problem, why do make it into one?

So you are an ethnic Greek using your geographic location as a part of your ethnicity am I correct in understanding you in this way?

You are Macedonian in the geographical sense only, I am in ethnicity, you see, we Macedonians are only found in all parts of Macedonia. We are not found on the islands of the Aegean or even in Eastern Turkey, we are native to Macedonia.
On the other hand, Greeks are found all over the Aegean and even in remote parts as Eastern Turkey, Greeks are not exclusive to Macedonia, we are.

So you are a Greek who likes to label yourself as a Macedonian in a geographical sense, this do not however make you into an ethnic Macedonian.

You are making a issue of a non-issue.

On the topic of wine and cheese, ours are from the REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA, yours are from Greece and what ever prefecture the product is from, East-, Central- or Western Macedonia.

Is this a problem?

[Daskalot]

Macedonia is not what it used to be.
Countless tribes have walked the lands of GEOGRAPHIC Macedonia.

I am not saying it is Greek only. I do not believe this.
That is what I'm saying all along!
How do we separate Macedonian Greeks, from your Macedonians?

As for the quote on Alexander, you will have it soon.

As for the last picture you posted, you forgot to underline in red, that they are all refered to as NortSlavs.(I'm not saying it. Its there.)

And yes, the Macedonian language was existent back then, but if you research it, you will find that it is a Slav related language, and not related with the ancient one, which was a dialect that even Greeks could not understand, until it was gradually replaced by Koine Greek..

Again I recommend all to check out this link:
In the meantime, check my last link: http://www.livius.org/maa-mam/macedonia/macedonia.html.

Now goodnight cause its late.

To be continued then..

You already did, you can be Macedonian Greeks in my book, for that is in reality what you are, we on the other hand are ethnic Macedonians.

Problem solved.

End of discussion.

[MacedonianHellene]

Soldier of Macedon, let your anger out Danielsan.. Your need to chill out..

No, you can not be called just Macedonians, because you are also taken for what you are not, and that is, Greeks. This confusion must end.

Choose your title. Macedonians alone does not suffice..
It does not correspond to reality, and you know it, even if you refuse to accept it.

Greek Macedonians, Slav Macedonians, Bulgar Macedonians, Albanian Macedonians,
Serb Macedonians.
Why don't you accept your Slavic descent?

Ethnic SlavoMacedonians perhaps?

As for the Rufus quote, I wont prove to you anything.
You have eyes, you have the book, so look closer..!

[makedonin]

No, you can not be called just Macedonians, because you are also taken for what you are not, and that is, Greeks. This confusion must end.

You are the only one confused out there. Or better say deluded.

Choose your title. Macedonians alone does not suffice..
It does not correspond to reality, and you know it, even if you refuse to accept it.


Greek Macedonians, Slav Macedonians, Bulgar Macedonians, Albanian Macedonians,
Serb Macedonians.

That is far away from any reality. And you dare talk about reality Everything you numbered up there is non existet.

Why don't you accept your Slavic descent?

Ethnic SlavoMacedonians perhaps?

Sorry, but it appear you are more Slavic than we are, check your racist contrapart Dienekes ( click here)

So will you change your title in Grecophone-Ethnic-Slavo-Makedo-Greek!?

It will create a atmosphere of trust between us if you show us how it is done with the changing of titles!

My Title is Ethnic Macedonian!

Ethnic Macedonians, tht is what I prefer! Do you accept it !?

Like I care if you accept it or not.

[George S.]

Hellene this is from one of your links on alexander"Macedonia was not a Greek city-state"
stop bullshitting to yourself & bite the bullet.If the Greeks & Macedonians were the same people in the battle of chaeronea why would they fight each other.Also The Macedonians were not Hellenes.So stop calling yourself Macedonian Hellene there is no such thing.You have proved that greeks are not very good at lying.Also they are so stupid that they can't recognise their neighbours who they are.Is'nt it silly to pretend you are somebody else.

[Daskalot]

Soldier of Macedon, let your anger out Danielsan.. Your need to chill out..

No, you can not be called just Macedonians, because you are also taken for what you are not, and that is, Greeks. This confusion must end.

Choose your title. Macedonians alone does not suffice..
It does not correspond to reality, and you know it, even if you refuse to accept it.

Greek Macedonians, Slav Macedonians, Bulgar Macedonians, Albanian Macedonians,
Serb Macedonians.
Why don't you accept your Slavic descent?

Ethnic SlavoMacedonians perhaps?

As for the Rufus quote, I wont prove to you anything.
You have eyes, you have the book, so look closer..!

There are no other ETHNIC Macedonians in the world except US.

I will give you a warning, one more time you try to pull your Greek propaganda in here with such stupidities as calling us "Slavs" only or making it into a complex name you will be BANNED. The only Slavic part on us is our language, Slav is not an ethnicity, it is a language descriptor as is Latin.
You should consider renaming yourselves into ANCIENTMacedonians, that would suit you like a glove.

And remember what I have warned you about, ONE more time and you will be permanently BANNED. Your choice file mou.

[George S.]

Demosthenes described the Macedonians as barbarians.What does this mean they the Greeks could not understand Macedonian it was babble to them.Barbarian meant that the Macedonians were NON-Greek & were despised & hated & were not allowed to participate in the olympics.You know how Greece wants all the glory of Macedonia today well guess what.During the battle of cHaeronia guess where DEmosthenes alligiances were obviously with Greece.He was hoping & he got really angry that he hoped Alexander got killed in battle.He hated Alexander so much he was fuming at the mouth hoping not that he got injured but for Alexander to be KILLED!
Also when he found out that Greece lost the battle of CHaeronia he went into a fit of rage because he HaTED Alexander so much.Clearly the Greeks & Macedonians areNOT the same people.Do people remember the two seperate ANTI MACEDONIAN WARS waged by GREECE against Macedonia for her HATE of not being GREEK.Do people know how much hate Greece had for MACEDONIA?? Clearly these are Not the same people.
Under the Roman occupation How come the Romans created Two provinces One was Macedonia & the other was gReece.If Greece & Macedonia were the same why didn't they just create one province???Clearly the Macedonians were seperate People!