Regime Change: Will Macedonia be Removed from the Map in 2018?

[Risto the Great]

Gocka, I would have thought sorting it out like men in a pub with a smiley face meant having a drink and chat about it. Sounds like a misinterpreted angry response from Gocka. But the rest is fair enough.

Personally, I'm angry with Macedonians in Macedonia. My sons won't know of a homeland. I'm embarrassed to show that pathetic shit hole of a compromise as the place they can point to on a map and be proud of. I resent the Fyromians who are so smart that they let all of this happen. They do deserve this because they haven't fought for anything. I could go on

[Tomche Makedonche]

It's like rich people screwing over the middle class to hoard more money when they already have more than they'll likely need in a lifetime. Sure they get more money in the moment but in the long term their revenue will plummet as people can no longer afford stuff and if it gets bad enough you've got another great depression on your hands.

Traditionally this capitalist economic model was true, in that it was profitable for companies to sustain the middle class by raising wages/salaries proportionally so that their products were accessible by their own labour force, however, the one factor that you’ve neglected or has changed since then is accessibility to the global market. The world has gotten much smaller then it was 50 to 70 years ago, with the doors to a lot of previously closed markets now wide open, and as a result, the need or economic viability for companies to proportionally sustain their own labour force is and will continue to diminish, particularly when you have a plethora of foreign markets, (i.e. 1 billion Chinese and/or Indians) eager to buy your product (not to mention which you will also now have to compete with).

[Gocka]

Oh I got the smiley face, I still want to break his nose.
I didn't like the insinuations.

I spent 4 1/2 months in Macedonia arguing with practically every Macedonian I ran into. I got into arguments with cops twice. I got thrown out of the opstina in Ohrid for causing a fight over line cutting. Pathetic shit hole is too kind in my estimation.

We argue about geopolitical bullshit, when in reality Macedonians don't know the first thing about democracy, statehood, rule of law, or rights. We are trying to teach them a doctorate level lesson, while they still haven't passed the first grade.

Gocka, I would have thought sorting it out like men in a pub with a smiley face meant having a drink and chat about it. Sounds like a misinterpreted angry response from Gocka. But the rest is fair enough.

Personally, I'm angry with Macedonians in Macedonia. My sons won't know of a homeland. I'm embarrassed to show that pathetic shit hole of a compromise as the place they can point to on a map and be proud of. I resent the Fyromians who are so smart that they let all of this happen. They do deserve this because they haven't fought for anything. I could go on

[Risto the Great]

I associate line cutting with absolute peasantry. You should visit China and see how you cope. I've literally picked up men and moved them out of my way. They still pretend nothing happened.

[Starling]

Well, the fact that "everyone lives everywhere else" is a growing problem because it results in people caring less about "place". With advancements in communication/transportation, the concept of one's place is significantly expanding, but a human's capacity to act (his or her natural limitations) are not expanding. Further, we're less emotionally attached to any one place, which further reduces our desire to care (or feel that we're responsible) for that particular space.

A classic example is that of an elementary school-aged child who can't even count off five species of animals that are found in his neighborhood, but can name dozens on some far off continent that he might probably visit once or twice in his life. Or, he can list off more Hollywood, Youtube and entertainment stars than he can name people in his own neighborhood or school. How can he care for his own neighborhood/town when he grows up if he doesn't even know his own neighborhood, or isn't going to remain there and be constantly on the move?

The best solution would be for people to maximize and concentrate their efforts in their own "place". Coordination across municipal or national boundaries is good in solving global problems; but we must realize that most global problems are caused by an accumulation of ignored local problems.

The shift of religious systems from nature worship to divine power that controls all already did that to western ideologies. Then the forced conversions to Christianity via the Romans or people ascribing to Roman philosophy on the matter, combined with western industrialization, spread the issue like a disease and called it "modernization". People living in urban areas of western or "Westernized" societies are conditioned to undervalue simpler, less urbanized societal structures or more manual or undesirable jobs that support their way of life.

People do still hold attachments to places. Pretty much every immigrant population group I know about in the general vicinity of where I live has a sense of community tied to their current place or residence. The French Canadian communities are likewise proud of where they live even though they aren't truly native to Canada, excepting native american populations who speak French rather than English. Canada in general also prides itself in its wealth of nature, protected through parks and continuous efforts at improving environmental policies.

In terms of addressing the issue, I agree that emphasizing smaller scale stuff like taking care of your local village/community and stressing the importance of municipal policies as well as international ones would help. Additionally a major part of Macedonian cultural pride is tied to the land, so emphasizing that would help as well. We need to reclaim our legends and folklore. keep them alive for future generations.

Traditionally this capitalist economic model was true, in that it was profitable for companies to sustain the middle class by raising wages/salaries proportionally so that their products were accessible by their own labour force, however, the one factor that you’ve neglected or has changed since then is accessibility to the global market. The world has gotten much smaller then it was 50 to 70 years ago, with the doors to a lot of previously closed markets now wide open, and as a result, the need or economic viability for companies to proportionally sustain their own labour force is and will continue to diminish, particularly when you have a plethora of foreign markets, (i.e. 1 billion Chinese and/or Indians) eager to buy your product (not to mention which you will also now have to compete with).

It goes deeper than the market. If you want a sustainable national economy and population, then you need to make sure your citizens can actually afford the various expenses that go into day to day life. Healthcare and Education are major factors in that. Right now the US education system is abysmal, various subjects have funding cut in favour of sports and the current generation is being crushed by student debts they'll be paying for half their life. Then there's how living expenses are going up while wages aren't adjusting to them, services meant to help lower income people afford basic necessities such as healthcare are being systematically destroyed and so on. You barely even need to talk about the market to point out that the current system is unsustainable. One of the major factors for the fall of the Ottoman empire was that people were being taxed so heavily they couldn't afford to tend their lands anymore and ended up resorting to banditry. Then other people had to struggle with the taxes and banditry, on top of aggressive capitalist foreign markets collapsing the economy. Small wonder that Turkey ended up with financial problems by the end of it. Even foreign markets have to pay local citizens as employees, so the root problem lies in stuff like minimum wage, fair pay and how that compares to living expenses. I recently heard about an experiment done somewhere in Canada where they tried out a basic income model where everyone was granted the bare minimum money to afford living expenses so that salaries went straight to non-essentials and the results were very promising.

[Pelagonija]

My family owned half the village, and still do. I have more land and a bigger home in Macedonia, that my grandfather built then I do in the USA. My parents left Macedonia because of communists, not because they needed more money. My family was targeted by the communist police because they had money and used it to fund anti communist movements. So with all due respect, which is none, Fuck You.

You are the same conspiracy theory peddling village idiot that you would have been in Macedonia, except now you are illiterate in 2 languages instead of just one. I tried to be polite to you, but as usual you cross the line because you are too dense to actually speak to an issue. Your contribution here is about as useful as that random shiptar who is constantly wasting forum space.

I do have a problem, and had I met you in a pub i'd surely break your freaking nose. You cunt.

Wooooaaaaah mr emotional AKA Let's give Zaev a go.. settle down Beh..

Talk about being dense and uneducated I was being polite, I wasn't trying.. Geez resorting to violence! what happen to your democratic values, freedom of speech..?


Btw others have also had relatives murdered by first the Serbs and then communists recent history.. so please spare us the I'm special emo crap..

Mate judging by your response you are weak soft cunt void of inward strength.. Go back to Ohrid be with your New Jersey plates.. vidime mene batka bogat sum.. with your Macedonian village wife!

[Gocka]

LMAO, I literally had a mental image of you picking up some little Chinese dude and shifting him to the side. It is peasant like isn't it.

I'm in the opstina in Ohrid waiting in line with my wife for an hour to get our passports renewed. There is like 10-15 of us waiting in line. I watch one guy walk right past all of us and walk in the door that we are waiting to get in. I say to myself, that was weird, but maybe its not what I think it was. Two minutes later there goes another one. I start muttering to myself, my wife knows I'm going to say something, so before I even say a word she says, just keep calm. And there goes two more cunts. The two wires connected in my head, and I start yelling.

Me "Chori ste, kaj ojte preku red"

Cunts "Am samo ni trebit nesto na brzina"

Me "Jas budala sum ovde shto chekam eden sat, gi gledas site ovije lujge shto cheket, mislis nie sme budali?"

Cunts "Poleka de, ne vikaj, nikoj ne reche deka si budala"

Me "Pa morat da sum budala da chekam na red ko sum mozel samo da vlezam koga sakam. I mojava rabota e brza ama eve si chekam ko kulturen chovek da mi dojdi redot"

Cunt " Ne se nerviraj dechko, odma che zavrsime"

Me: mini nuclear bomb goes off in skull. I grab the one cunt to stop him from entering the room. The other cunt pushes me into a little babichka behind me. So I decked him. Then some of the other people in line broke us up and security came

Some older dude in line says "aman aman, sto se tepate, chudo golemo neka pominat"

Then the woman who is working at the desk behind the door we are waiting to get into comes out, and says "izvini mu velam da cheket na red, ama ne me sluset" I say, "Pa nemat da gi sluzis, dzabe mu velis ne ko pak gi sluzis" She says " Am ne sluset" I say "PA SETNE MAVAJ"

I got thrown out, the cunts were allowed to go ahead. Luckily the police didn't arrest me. I just went back the next day and did my business lol.

First of all, why the fuck weren't 15 other people bothered by the fact that person after person kept cutting the line. Why the fuck do I have to be the one to say something. Why does the woman at the front desk keep allowing it to happen?

This one experience for me was the epitome of what Macedonia is as a country as a people. Everyone stands by, watching as people act like cunts, then shit themselves when someone tries to fix it. Everyone is helpless, everyone is silent, everyone just wants peace at any price.

I don't think in my entire life in the USA has anyone ever cut in front of me in a line. The few times someone did it by accident, and fell over themselves apologizing for it. One time I witnessed someone cut in a line at the motor vehicle department, literally every single person on the line starting yelling, soccer moms, grandmas, everyone. They didn't need someone to stand up for them.

I associate line cutting with absolute peasantry. You should visit China and see how you cope. I've literally picked up men and moved them out of my way. They still pretend nothing happened.

[Risto the Great]

What's up with the village wife bullshit. Pathetic response.

[Gocka]

You are special kind of cunt.

Everyone here, knows my name, where I am from, where I live, and what I stand for. Feel free to disclose all of that about yourself, and next time we are both in Ohrid, I'll have my wife break your nose. You cunt.

Wooooaaaaah mr emotional AKA Let's give Zaev a go.. settle down Beh..

Talk about being dense and uneducated I was being polite, I wasn't trying.. Geez resorting to violence! what happen to your democratic values, freedom of speech..?


Btw others have also had relatives murdered by first the Serbs and then communists recent history.. so please spare us the I'm special emo crap..

Mate judging by your response you are weak soft cunt void of inward strength.. Go back to Ohrid be with your New Jersey plates.. vidime mene batka bogat sum.. with your Macedonian village wife!

[Risto the Great]

LMAO, I literally had a mental image of you picking up some little Chinese dude and shifting him to the side. It is peasant like isn't it.

I'm in the opstina in Ohrid waiting in line with my wife for an hour to get our passports renewed. There is like 10-15 of us waiting in line. I watch one guy walk right past all of us and walk in the door that we are waiting to get in. I say to myself, that was weird, but maybe its not what I think it was. Two minutes later there goes another one. I start muttering to myself, my wife knows I'm going to say something, so before I even say a word she says, just keep calm. And there goes two more cunts. The two wires connected in my head, and I start yelling.

Me "Chori ste, kaj ojte preku red"

Cunts "Am samo ni trebit nesto na brzina"

Me "Jas budala sum ovde shto chekam eden sat, gi gledas site ovije lujge shto cheket, mislis nie sme budali?"

Cunts "Poleka de, ne vikaj, nikoj ne reche deka si budala"

Me "Pa morat da sum budala da chekam na red ko sum mozel samo da vlezam koga sakam. I mojava rabota e brza ama eve si chekam ko kulturen chovek da mi dojdi redot"

Cunt " Ne se nerviraj dechko, odma che zavrsime"

Me: mini nuclear bomb goes off in skull. I grab the one cunt to stop him from entering the room. The other cunt pushes me into a little babichka behind me. So I decked him. Then some of the other people in line broke us up and security came

Some older dude in line says "aman aman, sto se tepate, chudo golemo neka pominat"

Then the woman who is working at the desk behind the door we are waiting to get into comes out, and says "izvini mu velam da cheket na red, ama ne me sluset" I say, "Pa nemat da gi sluzis, dzabe mu velis ne ko pak gi sluzis" She says " Am ne sluset" I say "PA SETNE MAVAJ"

I got thrown out, the cunts were allowed to go ahead. Luckily the police didn't arrest me. I just went back the next day and did my business lol.

First of all, why the fuck weren't 15 other people bothered by the fact that person after person kept cutting the line. Why the fuck do I have to be the one to say something. Why does the woman at the front desk keep allowing it to happen?

This one experience for me was the epitome of what Macedonia is as a country as a people. Everyone stands by, watching as people act like cunts, then shit themselves when someone tries to fix it. Everyone is helpless, everyone is silent, everyone just wants peace at any price.

I don't think in my entire life in the USA has anyone ever cut in front of me in a line. The few times someone did it by accident, and fell over themselves apologizing for it. One time I witnessed someone cut in a line at the motor vehicle department, literally every single person on the line starting yelling, soccer moms, grandmas, everyone. They didn't need someone to stand up for them.

Honestly, this is both hilarious and totally sad.

And yes, I picked the little Chinese guy up lol

[Gocka]

Spot on. We don't usually hear this kind of right to the point language from within FYROM. A nation of pussies is quite accurate.

Our biggest hurdle at this point in time is that not enough Macedonians really want a "Macedonia". They still have that communist mentality, that its always someone else responsibility to fix what ever deficiencies there are in their country. They just expect someone to rise and fix it all, some benevolent good dictator that will take control and right all wrongs.

I spend a lot of time pondering, asking myself, where do you start? I used to think it was, external, Greeks, Albanians, Serbs, Bulgars, Americans etc, then I thought it was institutional, like politicians and people in places of power, now I firmly realize it is the people. Every other person I met in Macedonia seemed to be in need of a therapist. Every person seemed to suffer form a mental complex or two. I don't know if the country made the people that way, or the other way around. All I know is that the real fight is still, after 200 years for the hearts and minds of Macedonians. All I can think of is to go back to basics, Delchev style, village to village, person to person, until there is enough enlightened people to rise up and change things for the better.

I almost got a mental breakdown because of that. At one point I thought to myself that it's not worth it to stress so much about this pussified pathetic nation that I wanted to move away and watch their suffering from afar. Because that's what they deserve.
Maybe it would have been better if Serbia attacked us in 91, maybe that would have hardened the people and raise their nationalism. Instead of recieveing the country on a plate.

I want to point out that the majority of Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia are also pathetic. It's not just a Vardar thing. The young people are slowly becoming proud Greeks. The others are not protesting because they would be fired from their workplaces. And that's it.

Around 200 years of fierce assimilating propaganda from all sides has made the people the way they are now. And by the looks of it we're gonna need 200 more to make things right. But we don't have that much time now do we? We've only got maybe a decade or so before this country completely disappears. If a miracle doesn't happen... like Russia finally intervening in Europe and starting WW3 or something. That way they would support a strong Macedonia because of interests ofcourse, to counter the American vision of great Albania, and place a puppet pro-Russian government in Macedonia. Only that would save us. Because the people are clearly not waking up.

[Gocka]

Ah good times on "vacation". Next time I'm going to Cuba.

The whole way back home my wife is in my ear.

"Ti morat sekogas da se prajs pameten" "Site chutat, Goce morat da zborvit" "Sto ako te napadneja site, mislis jas ke te branam" "Gospod da branit i da chuvat" "ako drugite se budali ne morat ti po budala da bidis" "Te znam te znam tebe, ako prechutis ke legnis bolen" "Pusta krv Zarovska buntovna"

Honestly, this is both hilarious and totally sad.

And yes, I picked the little Chinese guy up lol

[Starling]

Spot on. We don't usually hear this kind of right to the point language from within FYROM. A nation of pussies is quite accurate.

Our biggest hurdle at this point in time is that not enough Macedonians really want a "Macedonia". They still have that communist mentality, that its always someone else responsibility to fix what ever deficiencies there are in their country. They just expect someone to rise and fix it all, some benevolent good dictator that will take control and right all wrongs.

I spend a lot of time pondering, asking myself, where do you start? I used to think it was, external, Greeks, Albanians, Serbs, Bulgars, Americans etc, then I thought it was institutional, like politicians and people in places of power, now I firmly realize it is the people. Every other person I met in Macedonia seemed to be in need of a therapist. Every person seemed to suffer form a mental complex or two. I don't know if the country made the people that way, or the other way around. All I know is that the real fight is still, after 200 years for the hearts and minds of Macedonians. All I can think of is to go back to basics, Delchev style, village to village, person to person, until there is enough enlightened people to rise up and change things for the better.

It's everything. We need to be more vocal online, especially social media. We need to dismantle propaganda whenever we see it, reclaim our culture and history when we see it appropriated, celebrate our culture to be proud of it and remind people that we exist and we are Macedonians.

We need to fight against the injustices the government of our respective countries of residence are perpetrating or in a position to change and band together as a people no matter where we live. Macedonians in Greece and Bulgaria are at risk of assault and getting arrested for publicly expressing themselves. If we can keep the knowledge alive and keep in touch with them then that would help them endure and dismantle propaganda they're subjected to the time it takes to address the problem at the source.

We also need to start discussing basic concepts such as human rights, how voting works and critical thinking.

[Risto the Great]

Starling, Macedonia was kept alive by the diaspora. In its darkest times, we were fierce. When they were ready to be a Southern Slav brotherhood, we reminded them again and again of what they were.

We made it easy for them to be Macedonians.

Now we can't do much for them unless they make us their proxy voters. We won't really influence them in English.

We won't influence them in macedonian either if they know we're from the diaspora. So, after many years of activism, I painfully acknowledge we are of little use.

But I would like to orchestrate a few airplane leaflet drops before I go.

[Pelagonija]

You are special kind of cunt.

Everyone here, knows my name, where I am from, where I live, and what I stand for. Feel free to disclose all of that about yourself, and next time we are both in Ohrid, I'll have my wife break your nose. You cunt.

Ahaha wooo look at Gocka.. the educated keyboard warrior..

Haha I can't believe you have the emotional maturity of a 14 year old girl..

Come on Beh grow a pair you little teddy bear. If you insist I would be happy to meet your wife..

Daj ta te gusnam malku.. I would love to catch up for a drinking session.. if you are not happy your more than welcome to break my nose

Hehe zajeban..