Greece offers 'war relief' to Greek-origin Ukrainians

[Amphipolis]

or a Greek history teacher? Like the ones that are employed in Macedonian villages where they brainwash our young children into thinking they are descendants of Pericles and Pavlos Melas...

... and Alexander the Great.

I wouldn't post it if I couldn't read it. The list I posted contain Macedonian names both in their original form and in obvious Hellenized form. Why are you and Poligiros choosing to ignore this fact?

Well, here's again what you said.

Here is a sample page from the 1914 Greek census for a village in Lerin region. Tell me Poligiros, what do you see? Looks like someone tried to Hellenize it, but was not completely successful

If this is indeed an accurate reproduction of a list of persons PRIOR the change/Hellenization of names, what exactly is your problem? It is YOU who presented it, not me.

[Niko777]

If this is indeed an accurate reproduction of a list of persons PRIOR the change/Hellenization of names, what exactly is your problem? It is YOU who presented it, not me.

I posted a clear example of records that were modified by the Greek state, purposely Hellenized, but in this case not completely Hellenized. If you and Poligiros can truly read Greek then you would recognize the sloppy job done by whoever typed the list up and tried to make the names look Greek.

[Amphipolis]

I posted a clear example of records that were modified by the Greek state, purposely Hellenized, but in this case not completely Hellenized. If you and Poligiros can truly read Greek then you would recognize the sloppy job done by whoever typed the list up and tried to make the names look Greek.

This isn't sloppiness. It's the Church convention on Christian names.

I can truly read Greek, don't worry.

[Niko777]

This isn't sloppiness. It's the Church convention on Christian names.

I can truly read Greek, don't worry.

So you're telling me that the church doesn't accept the names "Bozin" and "Stoicho", but "Bozinis" and "Stoitsos" are completely fine.... LOL.

Church convention on Christian names is not the issue here. The issue is that the Greek state wants us to believe that our ancestors were names "Bozinis" and "Stoitsos" when in reality these names don't exist in the Greek language... these are quasi-Hellenized names for the purpose of deceiving people.

[Amphipolis]

So you're telling me that the church doesn't accept the names "Bozin" and "Stoicho", but "Bozinis" and "Stoitsos" are completely fine.... LOL.

Church convention on Christian names is not the issue here. The issue is that the Greek state wants us to believe that our ancestors were names "Bozinis" and "Stoitsos" when in reality these names don't exist in the Greek language... these are quasi-Hellenized names for the purpose of deceiving people.

If this document is accurate then this is what they did, probably not knowing what else to do. There's also a name Vodin.

What is the etymology or meaning of Vodin, Bozin or Stoicho? Are they Christian names? Do they have a meaning?

[Niko777]

What is the etymology or meaning of Vodin, Bozin or Stoicho? Are they Christian names? Do they have a meaning?

The name Bozin comes from the Macedonian word "Boze" - vocative singular word for God (Theos in Greek). I can speculate but I'm not certain on the etymology of the other two names, and I don't think etymology is relevant here.

[George S.]

Amphipolis are you denying that the greek state didnt try to forcibly assimilate and change peoples identity.?I say they did and a whole lot more.

[Amphipolis]

The name Bozin comes from the Macedonian word "Boze" - vocative singular word for God (Theos in Greek). I can speculate but I'm not certain on the etymology of the other two names, and I don't think etymology is relevant here.

I can't think of a Greek version of these names. These are not only foreign names but unfamiliar to us (at least today, maybe THEN and THERE it was different). This is a list of Slavic names per country and possible etymology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_names#Slavic_names_in_Bulgaria

[Niko777]

I can't think of a Greek version of these names.

And even if there were Greek versions, what gives them the right to modify records and change the names of our ancestors?

How can we rely on these records (as poor naive Poligiros suggests we should) when researching our ancestors and their ethnic identity?

[George S.]

Poligiros you still havent answered our questions on why leather books/you know leather cracks if you dont oil them,The other thing there are heaps of archives in turkey maybe they got some of the records wprth a look.

[Amphipolis]

And even if there were Greek versions, what gives them the right to modify records and change the names of our ancestors?

How can we rely on these records (as poor naive Poligiros suggests we should) when researching our ancestors and their ethnic identity?

First of all these are post-1913 records, so they are original, they are not "modified". We would need a Turk to inform us for certain on what records the Ottomans would keep; I can only tell you what I know.

Ottoman Empire was a semi-primitive "state". People didn't have "identity cards" and I'm not sure they were listed somewhere. It's possible that only men or only the head of the family appeared in a record. It's also possible that having files was a responsibility of the Church (either Patriarchic or Exarchist).

Furthermore, Turks had their own transliterations of Christian names and their own weird customs. They didn't have (or accept) surnames, so they would record first name and father's name (not surname). They would also slightly convert it in Arab characters. The Turkish files are saved, they are usually documents for taxation.

[Amphipolis]

This is an example of Turkish files. This is only one page of a blogger from the village of Agios Prodromos of Chalcidice, that explores all the people of his village from Turkish tax documents of 1870s-1910s. He has a hard time because Turks don't record surnames, but at least they followed the main road of the village, so he could easily relate the families, houses and properties as the village is still populated by (basically) the same families.

http://agios-prodromos.blogspot.gr/search/label/%CE%93%CE%B5%CE%BD%CE%B5%CE%B1%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%B3%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AC

[Niko777]

This is an example of Turkish files. This is only one page of a blogger from the village of Agios Prodromos of Chalcidice, that explores all the people of his village from Turkish tax documents of 1870s-1910s. He has a hard time because Turks don't record surnames, but at least they followed the main road of the village, so he could easily relate the families, houses and properties as the village is still populated by (basically) the same families.

http://agios-prodromos.blogspot.gr/s...B9%CE%BA%CE%AC

Although not as numerous, I still see remnants of Macedonian names such as Stogianni (Macedonian: Stojan) and Giankoulos (Jankulo) as well as original Macedonian village names (the name Agios Prodromos is from 1927, before that the village was known in Greek as "Resetnikia" which comes from the Macedonian Reshetnik).

[Niko777]

First of all these are post-1913 records, so they are original, they are not "modified".

I still think the names were modified. Either they were modified back then when they were recorded, or they were modified today when someone entered them in a computer. Names like Stoitsos never existed, the person's name was always Stoicho. Therefore we have to consider this when we read the other names like Giorgos, Petros, etc.

Furthermore, Turks had their own transliterations of Christian names and their own weird customs.

I have Turkish documents from Aegean Macedonia. The Turks recorded Macedonian names exactly as how they sounded like. They didn't change people's names or add a suffix to them as the Greeks did.

[Poligiros]

Remember how anything slav writing etc deemed was destroyed as well as place names.So what else is new .Do you think they didnt do itlIts part and parcel of being conquered.I'm not surprised at all.Attrocities etc are committed on people all the time.Of course there are
denials that it didnt happen.The people know and much has been written.

I need clarification here. You mention (above) forced Hellenization of anything "Slav" in Aegean Macedonian villages e.g. writing. I get threatened with a ban for mentioning "Slav" in quotes, as an example in context. I am not denying forced Hellenization didn't occur in some instances and I apologise.

The crux on this forum is that most of you are fiercely proud of your "slavonic" alphabet, language, place names that George mentioned above (that the Hellenes destroyed), yet there are millions of Hellenic people of Aegean Macedonia who speak a modern Hellenic dialect, have been there for generations and don't feel an affinity to "Slavonic".

I see on your greater Macedonia maps, a "slavonic" place name for my village. How did that come about?