Greece offers 'war relief' to Greek-origin Ukrainians

[Amphipolis]

The helenes came in about 800 bc.

Given that the first Olympic Games were held in 776 BC, and the Greeks were using this year as a starting point to count the years, what do you mean when you say about 800 BC? Did they arrive before the Olympics, after it, or exactly for the Olympics?

[George S.]

Philosopher a lot is known about the Macedonian language and alphabet.It is a fact that greek and Macedonian was not the same as it was unintelligible to the greeks,Years ago they reckon they had 10000 words that were macedinian.All sorts of yhings.Remember the ancient Macedonian language and alphabet were in existence pre historic times.That is prior to the greeks coming to the greek peninsula.(note the greeks were not native or indigenous to their own land),The greeks were colonisers,Bote also The greeks got their phonecian alphabet about 800 bs.Prior to that there was Achaens also the word greek wasn't used its only in mosern times.The helenes came in about 800 bc.They go on as if Hellenism exists real helenism died out after alexander conquered Greece.
Also greeks claim re Macedonia are false claims,The just want to legitimise their claim on Macedonia.

[George S.]

""Don't worry. You won't find ANY. The ones from Greece are almost exclusively from the district of Florina, maybe one or two from the districts of Kastoria (or even Pella)."" Yes its the same thing the greek govt didn't want the world to know only that there are no Macedonians in Greece only greeks .Helsinki watch found out that there are far more Macedonians.In fact the greeks are liars and deniars of the real truth,We know that they are lying as we have had feedback.

[DraganOfStip]

And to beat this tired old horse to death, it is again very odd why Alexander I was not accepted as a Greek by Greeks for being Macedonian, even though his apparent native language was Greek and had a Greek name, but instead had to prove his Greek ethnicity with Greek ancestry records (of which no evidence remains).

I'm sure he presented the Greek council some old leather books and tracked his bloodline back 3000 years to Zeus himself.

[George S.]

?Given that the first Olympic Games were held in 776 BC, and the Greeks were using this year as a starting point to count the years, what do you mean when you say about 800 BC? Did they arrive before the Olympics, after it, or exactly for the Olympics""
I said about 800 bc.Also the Olympics existed prior to your 776 bc carried on by the Macedonians the greeks merely copied it and called it their own.Remember how non greeks were not allowed to compete in the Olympics they made an exception to Philip.
Remember Macedonians were considered as barbarians.

[George S.]

"" to prove his Greek ethnicity with Greek ancestry records (of which no evidence remains).""Didn't I say there was a big dash of turkcic identity in the greeks after all the turks (ottomans) raped and pillaged at will.It was done on a grand scale.Therefore it becomes meaningless to discuss racial purity of the greeks.There aint any.

[Poligiros]

To add fairness and balance to the discussion, it is important to point out that modern scholars are not certain what the ancient Macedonian language was. Some, perhaps many, believe it was a form of Greek or likely a dialect of Greek; others disagree.

The general consensus is that it is not absolutely certain.

That a dialect of Greek is found in ancient Macedonia or that the ancient Macedonian court used Greek is not proof of the Hellenic origins of the ancient Macedonians.

And to beat this tired old horse to death, it is again very odd why Alexander I was not accepted as a Greek by Greeks for being Macedonian, even though his apparent native language was Greek and had a Greek name, but instead had to prove his Greek ethnicity with Greek ancestry records (of which no evidence remains).

Finally some sense. The ancient Macedonian language utilised a Greek alphabet, and on a worse case scenario, even if it wasn't the same language, it was definitely a Hellenic dialect intelligible to other Greek speakers.

However, what posters are missing is the fact that the Hellenistic age commenced with Alexander and unification of the Greek city/states.

George has it the wrong way around, us Hellenes love Alexander for spreading Hellenism to the known world and commencing the Hellenistic age.

The ancient Macedonians were of Dorian stock, not totally exclusive of the other Greek city/states. If they were totally dissimilar, a different culture and language would have been spread east and the likely scenario is that modern day Hellenic republic would be using Alexanders "different" language today!

[Poligiros]

Let me get this right. The brown leather books are your proof? And before that, nothing was.

I reckon there are brown leather books saying my people were Greek also. If they were written by Greeks, I feel confident that will be the case. If they were written by anyone else, well .... they were most likely destroyed.

Hang on, perhaps BECAUSE they were destroyed we have proof that the ancestors were not Greek.

Wow.


Sure.
Never.
It never changed.

Risto,

There is a big disconnect in your statement, if you are confirming that your language never changed, it is likely your language didn't exist in the region prior to 600AD, from accurate historical accounts? Am I incorrect?

Go to any village and you will find Ethnography, records and sketches from 1600 onwards with family names, stories and building records in the old sections. Our town has books published with the distinctive inhabitants and records kept that can be relayed into an accurate account today. We even know another part of our family came from a coastal village in Kassandra, about 50 kms away.

The Ottomans destroyed many official records, but most people from villages in Aegean Macedonia including yourself can get an accurate picture/account of who you were and what your family names are from the last few hundred years through records kept in the village.

[Tomche Makedonche]

Hellenic is someone that has a Hellenic cultural awareness, language, ethos and is a descendant of the Hellenic tribes scattered throughout the Balkans, Southern Europe, and further east.

Even if the Hellenes identified as Romaoi at a point in time, we still spoke a continuum and form of the Hellenic language throughout the ages, eligible to ancient Greek.

Spectacular, I’m assuming this standard you have created applies universally?, then on that basis I would agree that, Yes, You can be considered a descendent of Aleksandar Makedonski, in the same way the Pope can be considered a descendent of Julius Caesar. Similarly I would also agree that both the Macedonian Empire and Eastern Roman (Byzantine) empire can be considered ethnically Greek, in the same way that the Holy Roman Empire can be considered ethnically Roman (Italian).

If only the Italians adopted Latin from the Vatican and resurrected it as the official language for their modern nation, the entire glory of Western Europe would be ethnically theirs.

[Niko777]

edit...........

[Niko777]

Risto,

Go to any village and you will find Ethnography, records and sketches from 1600 onwards with family names, stories and building records in the old sections.

This is not true for the majority of Aegean Macedonia. Church Manuscripts written in Macedonian from the middle ages were being destroyed by Greek clergy since the 1700s. Records from Ottomans and Bulgarians were destroyed by the Greeks after 1913. Most of the post 1913 records were destroyed in the Greek Civil War. The records that did survive the civil war, such as marriage/baptism records that were kept in local village churches, were destroyed during the Papadopoulos regime in the 1960s.

The 1914 Greek census that took place in Aegean Macedonia survived but today's authorities won't let you see the original hand written list of names, they only show you a data entry list printed off a PC that was completely Hellenized by some stupid data entry clerk in the dimarxio.

Here is a sample page from the 1914 Greek census for a village in Lerin region. Tell me Poligiros, what do you see? Looks like someone tried to Hellenize it, but was not completely successful

[Vangelovski]

Go to any village and you will find Ethnography, records and sketches from 1600 onwards with family names, stories and building records in the old sections. Our town has books published with the distinctive inhabitants and records kept that can be relayed into an accurate account today. We even know another part of our family came from a coastal village in Kassandra, about 50 kms away.

The Ottomans destroyed many official records, but most people from villages in Aegean Macedonia including yourself can get an accurate picture/account of who you were and what your family names are from the last few hundred years through records kept in the village.

Again, what records are these? There was no Greek administration is southern Macedonia until 1913. Prior to that, official Ottoman records would have been in Turkish, not Greek. What language are your old leather books in - the ones prior to 1913, given they are from the local council?

[Risto the Great]

Risto,

There is a big disconnect in your statement, if you are confirming that your language never changed, it is likely your language didn't exist in the region prior to 600AD, from accurate historical accounts? Am I incorrect?

You just wanted my opinion. I used a very Greek approach stemming from a deep "vibe" and gave my answer.

I do know the Macedonian language has changed. It is quite common for languages to evolve. Particularly very old languages. Or doth you protest?

Go to any village and you will find Ethnography, records and sketches from 1600 onwards with family names, stories and building records in the old sections. Our town has books published with the distinctive inhabitants and records kept that can be relayed into an accurate account today. We even know another part of our family came from a coastal village in Kassandra, about 50 kms away.

The Ottomans destroyed many official records, but most people from villages in Aegean Macedonia including yourself can get an accurate picture/account of who you were and what your family names are from the last few hundred years through records kept in the village.

Are you so naive to believe what you say is true?

Anyway, I think people from your village can be regarded as part of the Greek minority of Macedonia. They were never Macedonians. They were Greeks in Macedonia. Now you have Africans and Syrians there. They might call themselves Greek one day, but you might have a bit of a nudge and a wink. Just like we Macedonians do about Greeks calling themselves Macedonian.

[Risto the Great]

If only the Italians adopted Latin from the Vatican and resurrected it as the official language for their modern nation, the entire glory of Western Europe would be ethnically theirs.

That would be a joke!
Hang on .....

[Poligiros]

This is not true for the majority of Aegean Macedonia. marriage/baptism records that were kept in local village churches, were destroyed during the Papadopoulos regime in the 1960s.

The 1914 Greek census that took place in Aegean Macedonia survived but today's authorities won't let you see the original hand written list of names, they only show you a data entry list printed off a PC that was completely Hellenized by some stupid data entry clerk in the dimarxio.

Here is a sample page from the 1914 Greek census for a village in Lerin region. Tell me Poligiros, what do you see? Looks like someone tried to Hellenize it, but was not completely successful

Niko, all I can see is Hellenic sounding names, birth dates with Dismoni - "Mpouf" that is probably not Hellenic sounding village?

There could be inconsistencies with authentication, records, notes between Hellenic villages of Aegean Macedonia and the predominately Macedonian ones in "Lerin" ??? You guys don't believe me that records exist in Greek villages, but you have just shown me an example of what I found with birth dates, even 100 years earlier.

Look, I don't agree with forced Hellenization in your regions. However there are Macedonian "slavs" who are pro-Hellenic from Lerin, do you think they were forcibly Hellenized?? My cousin in Thessaloniki is married to a "dopia" girl from Lerin, she is 35 years old and Hellenic as are her children.

Issue is that posters claim all of Aegean Macedonia, claim expansion, deny any Hellenic link to Macedonia (that is predominant) and I cannot find any evidence of ever having a presence in the southern, coastal, eastern regions of Aegean Macedonia including my village? In addition, your expansionist maps show my town of Polygyros, the island of 8assos, I do not see the correlation?

Finally, if you are sure that there are no records due to the fact that the Hellenic government destroyed official Macedonian records, how can you claim to know your ancestry for millenniums, yet deny the Hellenes of knowing theirs?