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Spot on there as nikola has promised the public bto a referendum of yay or nay whether that will supposedly give gruevski the green light to go ahead and compromise the name.?lots of questions there.Politicians like in Macedonia don't heed anything from the public ,you'd be forgiven if you questioned such a thing as democracy in Macedonia.
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Last edited by George S.; 06-12-2015, 05:51 PM."Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEV -
The latest edition --Volume 1, Issue 8...hope y'all enjoy this one!
(First link is to the web page where you can download the pdf file. Second link is the pdf itself.)
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VicOriginally posted by vicsinad View PostThe latest edition --Volume 1, Issue 8...hope y'all enjoy this one!
(First link is to the web page where you can download the pdf file. Second link is the pdf itself.)
http://media.wix.com/ugd/783d8c_41fb...c9ac86d0c8.pdf
Well done, keep it up, another good read and more lunch for RTG!On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"Comment
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It is simple and fun. I put it in the category of "Macedonian Porn".Originally posted by makedonche View PostRisto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.comComment
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On the finding of the macedonian sun in osinchani.The greeks are not going to be happy to hear that as the findings of the vergina tombs in 1978 the greeks have claimed exclusive use of the macedonian sun symbol.Yet in osinchani we have obviously a much earlier use of the sun symbol than the 4th century bc.The fact that the sun symbol appears allover rom ie churches etc etc is historically plastered al lover rom.Yet the macedonian govt caved in under pressure from its neighbour greece.Might i say unecessarily as greek claims of exclusivity are false.Another thing is that greece lost no time in registering its ownership of the sun symbol as exclusive greek symbol.Those who caved in to pressure should be up for treason.Also the same thing is contemplated for the name.Those who think that the govt won't change trhe name think again they will to enter the eu or nato.Last edited by George S.; 06-16-2015, 12:44 PM."Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEVComment
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If LOMA ever starts a "User Reviews" section, we're coming to you and makedonche.Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
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The government did cave under pressure. There were a lot of reasons / excuses they gave for doing so, but the bottom line is that it's pretty ridiculous that Macedonia let Greece dictate to her which drawings (of what is arguably the most necessary natural occurrence for human existence: the sun) Macedonia was allowed to use. That's almost as ridiculous as Greece demanding it.Originally posted by George S. View PostComment
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The most recent issue of LOMA's newsletter (Volume 1, Issue 9). Enjoy!
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Giving politicians the ultimate thing of doing what they want is a big mistake by the Macedonian constituents.Haven't we heard its not my domain but the politicians.We are too trusting that they will do what is right.Well that attitude has been wrong time and again.The politicians don't seem to be answerable to anyone but themselves.Thats why they are selling us short just to enter the eu or nato.Did they ask to change the flag ,no.Are they going to ask the constituents to change the name via a referendum.The question will probably so framed as to give the govt a green light.Has anyone heard of desisting from the name talks.The politicians have allways cooperated in the talks.The name issue will be another capitulation.
Just remember Greece will probably be out of the erozone so if Macedonia plays their cards right it won't be opposed by veto,You know all the more not to partake with the name talks.Greece will be finished down the gurgler because it didn't have its priorities right.At the time there are crisis talks about the greek crisis in Brussels.
Macedonian porn indeed and I thought this forum was a family show.The reviews will be a real rave.You have to hide your copy of loma in the dunny as with all porn risto.Last edited by George S.; 06-22-2015, 06:18 PM."Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEVComment
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We have released an official LOMA statement on UMD's appointment of Chris Evanoff (former MPO president) as an Advisory Council member. You can find it on our Facebook page. We have also wrote an article on why Macedonians should avoid the MPO. A lot of the younger generation does not know the dangers of MPO, so we want to inform them.
This week LOMA has learned some very troubling news about a well-known Macedonian organization, the United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD). According to official UMD statements, 7 new members were appointed to their advisory council, one of which is Mr. Chris Evanoff. For those of you who are not familiar with Mr. Evanoff, he was the president of the Macedonian Patriotic Organization (MPO) for nearly a decade. Those who know what the MPO stood for and still stands for, know very well why this is so worrisome. For those who do not know about the MPO, let us give a brief explanation.
The MPO is actually a very old "Macedonian" organization based in the USA and Canada. However, to even call it Macedonian at all is insulting to most Macedonians. For most of its existence the MPO, although in name Macedonian, has been a Bulgarian organization. The MPO holds the view that Macedonians do not exist as a unique ethnic group; the MPO leaders advocate that we Macedonians are merely just Bulgarians and consider the term Macedonian to be more of a regional identifier rather than an ethnic identifier. To most Macedonians this is an insult to our identity and history. Mr. Evanoff himself has made many statements that indicate his personal adherence to what has always been the MPO's general belief, that Macedonians are just Bulgarians living in the geographic region of Macedonia.
The MPO is free to believe whatever they wish about Macedonians and Bulgarians, but what is worrisome is that the UMD, as an organization, has not historically held such views nor appointed high ranking members who have held such views. UMD even stopped working with the MPO on a Macedonian-American Census project in 2010 after the MPO called on Macedonians to identify as “something other than Macedonian on US Census forms.” UMD had teamed up with the MPO despite several individuals' warnings not to. We believe that this could signal another change in the UMD's official beliefs, especially when taken into consideration that there are currently at least two other former MPO affiliates highly involved the UMD. With the addition of Mr. Evanoff, we have to question what the future of UMD will look like. It would be a shame if another Macedonian organization unknowingly began assuming anti-Macedonian views like those of the MPO.
LOMA believes that it is truly saddening to advocate that Macedonians are nothing more than confused Bulgarians, especially given our long tortured history. A history filled with brave Macedonians who perished at the hands of foreign armies that wanted to force us to not be Macedonian, of which the Bulgarian state was one of the most brutal. To ignore all that today and pretend we are anything other than Macedonian is indescribable with words.
We hope all Macedonians in the diaspora take notice of these changes, and we politely ask the UMD to explain in an official capacity some questionable statements and views of some of its high-ranking members and associates.Comment
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Nice one, Vic. If there is silence on this matter it will speak volumes....and we politely ask the UMD to explain in an official capacity some questionable statements and views of some of its high-ranking members and associates.Comment
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UMD have ducked and weaved over previous affiliations with MPO. This new affiliation is quite damning.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.comComment
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That is why we made the statement damning, for too long they have pretended that there is nothing going on, yet they keep adding former MPO members to their ranks. Guys who until yesterday were claiming we are all Bulgarians, somehow I doubt they have had a change of heart over night.
So that leaves two scenarios, people at the UMD do no research before appointing board members. Or do they know exactly what they are doing.
Either way it makes them a bunch of wankers.
Originally posted by Risto the Great View PostComment
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The article we wrote in case y'all don't have access to facebook:
Article: Why the UMD and Ethnic Macedonians Should Avoid the MPO
The United Macedonian Diaspora this week appointed seven new members to its Advisory Council. Included in this group is Chris Evanoff, a former president of the Macedonian Patriotic Organization (MPO). Such a move by the UMD leadership is worrying because of MPO’s history of denying that ethnic Macedonians are their own ethnic group and because of MPO’s insistence that today’s ethnic Macedonians are really a sub-group of Bulgarians. To understand the dangers of involving former and current MPO leaders in a large and visible organization that claims to represent the Macedonian community in the United States, we need to explore what the MPO has stood for and currently stands for, along with Chris Evanoff’s statements as a member of the MPO.
The MPO leadership has consistently advocated for an independent Macedonia for the Macedonians. It is hard to refute this. However, the MPO leadership has never acknowledged that ethnic Macedonians exist. They believe that Macedonians are of Bulgarian, Greek, Serbian, Albanian, Vlach and Turkish backgrounds, and they advocate that Macedonia should be a Switzerland of the Balkans that includes all of the above ethnic groups, which ironically and unfortunately does not include ethnic Macedonians. The MPO leadership – including Chris Evanoff – believes that we all should unite under the Macedonian name, regardless of our church affiliation or historical beliefs. What could this mean? One can imagine it now: “Do you go to the Bulgarian Orthodox Church or Greek Orthodox Church but you hail from Macedonia? Let’s join forces, we’re all Macedonian! You believe that Macedonians are originally Bulgarians or originally Serbs? Doesn’t matter, come on over! We’re all Macedonians; but none of us are ethnic Macedonian.”
This is a farce that most Macedonians will eventually see through. We are all for unity – we want the people of the Balkans to look past their differences in order to remain at peace with one another. But we are not for the type of unity that comes at the expense of our identity. We cannot accept to unite with other Macedonians who claim that their Macedonian heritage is a sub-branch of a greater ethno-national group, be it Bulgarian, Greek or Serbian. Our Macedonian ancestors fought very hard and for far too long, sacrificing time, blood, and life, in order to disassociate themselves with the Bulgarian, Serbian and Greek label. What a disgrace and disservice we would do upon them if we were to join forces with these people in order to spread a Macedonianism that slowly erodes the Macedonian identity and culture! Yes, we want continued peace and unity. No, we do not want the Macedonian name to be turned into something that becomes interchangeable with the word “Balkan.”
Chris Evanoff once said that the MPO was the only bond in the 20th century for Macedonian émigrés around the world. He was wrong. In the 1950s, the United Macedonians Organization of Canada emerged as the leading voice for ethnic Macedonians in Canada. Among the several groups in the United States, the main one was the Macedonian People’s League, originating in the 1930s, and then dissolving in the late 1950s because of its supposed communist affiliations. These organizations, unlike the MPO, never claimed that Macedonians were anything but ethnic Macedonian. Unlike the MPO, they advocated not for a Switzerland of the Balkans, but for a homeland of the ethnic Macedonians. Unlike the MPO, the MPL and United Macedonians did not believe Macedonians were Bulgarians. Unlike the MPO, they did not constantly publish official documents and newspaper articles in the Bulgarian language, especially after the Macedonian language was officially codified. And unlike the MPO, the MPL did not find itself on the side of fascist Germany in order to pursue its goals of an independent and free Macedonia.
Even after the MPL was shut down by US officials, local Macedonian groups started rallying together and eventually, after the independence of the Macedonian Orthodox Church, the local Macedonian communities started uniting Macedonians around these churches. The MPO members, for the most part, refused to be a part of these new Macedonian communities and wanted to remain in their Macedono-Bulgarian communities. They, for the most part, refused to join the celebration of this greater separation and independence of Macedonians, and rather wanted to continue promoting their mixed Macedonian-Bulgarian identity. For most intents and purposes, this is fine – we should all live our lives according to the principles of self-determination. However, when it comes to the identity of ethnic Macedonians who do not believe that we are ethno-national Bulgarians, there arises a conflict of interest. The Macedono-Bulgarians can believe whatever they like about who they are and how they identify. But they should not, cannot, and will not prevent ethnic Macedonians from being anything but ethnic Macedonian.
Mr. Evanoff’s tenure at MPO was supposedly one which “redefined” the MPO and changed its direction. However, was it truly? Not even a couple years into his Presidency at MPO, Mr. Evanoff met with the Bulgarian President during the time, Mr. Petar Stoyanov. It is really strange that Mr. Stoyanov agreed with Evanoff when Evanoff stated: “Today Bulgaria has more Macedonians than in any other country, including the Republic of Macedonia, so the welfare of Bulgaria and harmony of its bilateral relations with the Republic of Macedonia are of particular importance.” Evanoff claimed that Bulgaria has 3 million people from Macedonia living there. Why would the president of a country who claims that ethnic Macedonians don’t exist agree with Evanoff that there are more Macedonians in Bulgaria than in Macedonia if he doesn’t believe Macedonians are their own ethnic group? It only can be because he and Evanoff truly believe that “Macedonians” are a sub-group of Bulgarians. If Evanoff doesn’t believe this, then why make the absurd claim that 3 million Macedonians live in Bulgaria, when even the Republic of Macedonia’s numbers for Macedonians in Bulgaria don’t exceed a few hundred thousand? Evanoff thus must believe that Macedonians are Bulgarians because we can guarantee that the majority of those Bulgarians living in Bulgaria who have some origins from Macedonia do not claim to be ethnic Macedonians; and Evanoff, being as he was and is involved in Macedonian affairs, would not be ignorant to this fact.
Further, why does a leader of the “Macedonian Patriotic Organization” need to meet with the President of Bulgaria when he visits the United States in order to affirm their friendship? Why would the President of Bulgaria congratulate the MPO for working toward the liberation of Macedonia if the MPO was not a pro-Bulgarian group, especially considering that Bulgaria invaded the Republic of Macedonia’s territory both in World War 1 and 2, causing much death and destruction, and also considering that Bulgaria still refuses to accept that the Macedonian language and ethnic identity are separate from Bulgarian? The reason is clear to everyone: because MPO leadership of yesterday and today believe that ethnic Macedonians are Bulgarian.
However, there have been many internal divisions in the MPO. Many former and current MPO leaders criticized Evanoff for steering MPO away from wholeheartedly embracing Bulgaria and a Bulgarian identity. But during Evanoff’s tenure as MPO President, he claimed that the MPO is the same today as it was when it first started: an organization advocating for a “Switzerland of the Balkans.” Furthermore, while Evanoff was president of MPO, the bylaws still stated the following: “The terms ‘Macedonians’ and ‘Macedonian Immigrants’ used in this bylaws pertain equally to all nationality groups in Macedonia – Bulgarians, Aroumanians, Turks, Albanians and others. In this case they have only geographic and not ethnographic meaning.” (A note to Article 29 of MPO’s Bylaws). In the decade that Evanoff was in charge of the MPO, he had the opportunity to mold the MPO into an organization that advocated for ethnic Macedonians. He could have successfully supported the removal of this note from the bylaws. Instead, the MPO never came out and stated that ethnic Macedonians exist and are different from ethnic Bulgarians. This is because the MPO is not an organization that exists to support the idea – or the reality – of an ethnic Macedonian identity. Perhaps now is the time for Evanoff to state that ethnic Macedonians exist and that Macedonians are not ethnically Bulgarian or part of a sub-group of Bulgarians. Though, we suspect that even if he does, it may not erase the skepticism many ethnic Macedonians have for people associated with the MPO.
With the recent influx of MPO members and money, one can only wonder which path – intentionally or unintentionally – the UMD will end up leading itself down. Currently, the UMD is clearly the United States’ largest and most visible Macedonian organization. But the members of the ethnic Macedonian community should reconsider how much support they give to the UMD when the UMD is lining its staff with former MPO members who have not denounced their Bulgarian ties and who have claimed that Macedonians are anything but ethnic Macedonian. This is dangerous territory. It may be that having former MPO members in relevant and significant positions means very little for UMD’s future policy and is really just a way for UMD to get money and support. But is this a risk the UMD should take on behalf of the ethnic Macedonian community? Being that UMD is a group that claims to represent all Macedonian-Americans – even though no Macedonian-American ever participated in an election to choose a UMD representative – UMD should strongly reconsider from whom it is getting advice.
The MPO is not, and never has been, a friend to the ethnic Macedonians. Some of their members have left and have become disassociated with the Bulgarian tendency of the MPO leadership. The group is dwindling in membership and attendance at their events has shrunk. But they are still around. Check out their website for yourself or research them on the Internet and see what it means to be “Macedonian” to them. It’s not the Macedonian you and I are familiar with, we can guarantee you that much.
Sources:
http://www.umdiaspora.org/index.php/en/Comment
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We posted this link on our FB page. It's a Bulgarian Wiki article stating that "Chris Evanoff is a Bulgarian immigrant, activist and tenth president of the MPO."
Now Mr. Evanoff may know nothing about this and have had nothing to do with it. But clearly, there are people out there that think he is Bulgarian enough to make a Bulgarian wiki page about it.
There is more to the article. I just put the part where it says he is a Bulgarian, was president of the MPO, was born in Prilep, and his family escaped the "totalitarian" government. After scouring through other websites, I read other things that claimed his family left because they were Bulgarian / German supporters. Another website claims that Chris Evanoff said his grandfather was Bulgarian, his dad was Bulgarian, but that he also feels Macedonian. I don't know to what extent any of this is true, or if it makes a difference. Clearly, his senior involvement with the MPO makes it hard for people to accept that he is not pro-Bulgarian. And an organization of ethnic Macedonians like the UMD should not be taking direction or advice from him.Крис (Христо) Иванов (на английски: Chris Evanoff) е български емигрантски деец, десети президент на МПО в САЩ и Канада.
Крис Иванов е роден в град Прилеп, тогава в Югославия. Емигрира в САЩ заедно с родителите си, които са репресирани от тоталитарната власт.Comment
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