Knock knock, its God calling

[Vangelovski]

the christan calling is supposed to be god calling & knocking on your door.If you accept by faith you will be saved.It's very simple.Remember the doubting thomas he wanted real proof before he could accept jesus.

Even Thomas was given proof and so has everyone. Many just choose to ignore it.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

How "good" is the person who supposedly dedicates their life to helping others or society? Have they never broken God's law? Have they never said or done anything wrong at all? Have they never thought or desired something bad? I doubt it. And why should someone imperfect enter the perfect kingdom of God? What kind of justice is that?

We're actually lucky that we have the ability to put our faith in Christ, otherwise we will be judged according to what we've done and what we've done throughout our lives is a lot of bad things if you're really honest with yourself. Not one of us would make it to heaven. Yet when God pays the penalty Himself and offers you a free pass if you choose to trust Him, you still complain that its not fair. Well, it sort of isn't fair - Perhaps you rather pay for your own sins - that would be more fair I suppose - what do you think? The question is, are you willing to do that? Or, would you rather take the free gift offered by a loving father (i.e. God) who pleads with you to accept it?

I'd probably say they are better than most. So you're telling me that even some of the most terrible people in history would be eligible for heaven if they were to simply put their faith in Jesus? If so, I'd say that heaven is rather overrated if people like that are still going to be there upon arrival. That's not justice at all, in fact, it's quite the opposite. It seems like an easy way out to be honest.

Also how is it necessarily a 'free gift?' You are still giving something in return, i.e your ongoing faith. Not to mention there are also a number of tangible assets that people give up as well, money being the most obvious one.

The reality is (and reality is what actually is, not what is percieved to be) that He is God and He is the only way to salvation. You misconceiving something or not liking something is no excuse for rejecting Him. In fact, there is no excuse full stop - you won't be able to argue your way out of Hell once you have chosen that destination for yourself. So choose wisely now.

You sound very absolute about this Tom. How do you know for certain that this is 'reality?' A part from what you've seen in books (mainly the bible), what else is there to suggest that this is reality? For me it will never be 100% reality until I meet the man myself.

[United MKD]

This is why Islam is taking over the world. Too many Christians questioning the faith.

[Risto the Great]

This is why Islam is taking over the world. Too many Christians questioning the faith.

I suspect many muslims question their faith as well.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

I suspect many muslims question their faith as well.

Exactly. Nor do I see why different religions have to compete. At the end of the day the individual should be able to make a conscious decision on which faith they choose to follow, or whether they follow none at all.

If we didn't question things we'd still be living in the stone age.

[George S.]

the problem seems to be is people are taking a retrograde step not only is there a atheistic religion that is no religion but agnostic questioning the existence of religion.I suppose eventually we will know but in this life how.What are the sign posts when people just have to accept by blind faith.Some people opt out alltogether as it's too much in their day to day to fathom.So the evidence is really there there is a maker of the universe,blind chance didn't just let it happen it was a creation by god.

[Bill77]

So you're telling me that even some of the most terrible people in history would be eligible for heaven if they were to simply put their faith in Jesus?

Firstly, what do you mean by "most terrible" ?
Is there some measuring stick to grade the levels of bad doings and puts them in certain categories? In gods eyes, its more simple, evil is evil there is no in between.
This is why we fail to understand biblical teachings, we live in this world that complicates things, and when Gods message is simple, our heads start spinning.

Spiritually we are dead. Unless we do what Buhddist monks (for an example) do which is get away from all the complications of this world we will never understand the simple, right way of life.

Secondly, if you are to accept "Evil is Evil" then you would find it easier to understand how it's not strange for anyone to enter heaven if they "truely" repent. And in this case,it's not as simple as just picking up a bible, if we are to take the word of God when he says we are going to be judged, be rest assured that evil doers (all of us) will be found if our claims of repenting is genuine or just something we professed. Therefore justice will prevail.

I suspect many muslims question their faith as well.

many would question the interpretations of extremists following their faith but always keep their God. Where we question the existence of God.

[Risto the Great]

Bill, a Buddhist monk won't be allowed to go to heaven. I think it was a bad example in this context.

[Bill77]

Bill, a Buddhist monk won't be allowed to go to heaven. I think it was a bad example in this context.

In some instances, I differ from other Christians when it comes to certain opinions. I think there is room for bald people

Bible says no one knows who is in the book of lambs except the father. But I bet I will be told I am misinterpreting this scripture

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Firstly, what do you mean by "most terrible" ?
Is there some measuring stick to grade the levels of bad doings and puts them in certain categories? In gods eyes, its more simple, evil is evil there is no in between.
This is why we fail to understand biblical teachings, we live in this world that complicates things, and when Gods message is simple, our heads start spinning.

Spiritually we are dead. Unless we do what Buhddist monks (for an example) do which is get away from all the complications of this world we will never understand the simple, right way of life.

Secondly, if you are to accept "Evil is Evil" then you would find it easier to understand how it's not strange for anyone to enter heaven if they "truely" repent. And in this case,it's not as simple as just picking up a bible, if we are to take the word of God when he says we are going to be judged, be rest assured that evil doers (all of us) will be found if our claims of repenting is genuine or just something we professed. Therefore justice will prevail.


many would question the interpretations of extremists following their faith but always keep their God. Where we question the existence of God.

By most terrible I do refer to a kind of measuring stick. For example, I'd consider someone who has committed murder or rape far worse than someone who may have stolen a piece of bread. Both are considered wrong, but to treat them as equivalent evils is also unjust. That might be the way God sees it, but it's wrong. If we adopted that kind of perception, we might as well hand out equal sanctions for every crime. Society cannot function on this kind of viewpoint. That doesn't necessarily mean murderers and the like should be condemned forever and be labelled as evil people. I'm sure many wish that things had turned out differently and regret their actions.

Could you imagine if people like Hitler, Stalin, etc were Christians and were given this opportunity to weasel their way into heaven? What kind of place would heaven be if half the people there were scumbags on earth? At least the people in Hell would be paying the price for their actions.

I just think people are too fanatical about the whole thing, to the point where they cannot participate in open dialogue without getting offended or feeling threatened. There's a fine line between fact and what people believe when it comes to any religion. It's therefore unsubstantiated to claim the opposite side is completely misguided, because some things we'll just never know.

[Vangelovski]

I'd probably say they are better than most.

And? So what? That is a relative 'better' in comparison to someone worse. Both are evil when compared to the perfect moral law. To Bill77, you stated that God is wrong for seeing all sin as evil. Who are you to say that God is wrong? Who are you to determine what is morally good and morally right? Why should we give any consideration to anything that you think? Like I said to TM, when you create your own universe, then you can make your own rules. Until then, you're just kidding yourself.

So you're telling me that even some of the most terrible people in history would be eligible for heaven if they were to simply put their faith in Jesus? If so, I'd say that heaven is rather overrated if people like that are still going to be there upon arrival. That's not justice at all, in fact, it's quite the opposite. It seems like an easy way out to be honest.

It is an easy way out because God did the work for you - you just have to accept His gift. And God did this because he loves us like a father loves his children and would do the same for them. But like I said, whether a human father or God, ultimately you'll respect your children's decisions.

Again, no matter how 'good' you think you are, you're not really good at all. I'm sure you've hated, lied, lusted, cheated and stolen more than once in your life. Even doing it once is a moral abomination unworthy of spending an eternity with a Holy God.

The justice is that wrong and evil require punishment and God paid that punishment. If you choose to accept His payment as a full and final settlement by putting your faith in Him then you are counted, so to say, worthy of spending an eternity with Him. But if you choose to pay the punishment yourself, then so be it.

I think I already asked, not necessarily you, but why do you feel you can disbelieve in God and then demand residence in His Kingdom? Explain to me how your version of justice works?

Also how is it necessarily a 'free gift?' You are still giving something in return, i.e your ongoing faith.

What?? How is belief/trust giving something??? What exactly are you giving? If you believe the earth revolves around the sun, what exactly are you giving??

Not to mention there are also a number of tangible assets that people give up as well, money being the most obvious one.

Seriously, WTF? What cult have you confused Christianity with? And why is it good when you help others because you feel like it, but not when God commands you to help others?

You sound very absolute about this Tom. How do you know for certain that this is 'reality?' A part from what you've seen in books (mainly the bible), what else is there to suggest that this is reality? For me it will never be 100% reality until I meet the man myself.

By that stage it will be far too late for you EM. I can be absolutely certain that God exists simply by looking all around me. Can you tell me how anything at all could exist without God to create it? How can something come from nothing? Please think about this rather than just posting what ever comes to your mind first.

Exactly. Nor do I see why different religions have to compete. At the end of the day the individual should be able to make a conscious decision on which faith they choose to follow, or whether they follow none at all.

If we didn't question things we'd still be living in the stone age.

Why do all religions compete? Seriously, are you looking at it that superficially? Its because there can only be one truth, not multiple contradictory truths.

Have you not paid any attention to anything that I've written? You are free to decide what you believe, but with that freedom comes consequences.

[Risto the Great]

In some instances, I differ from other Christians when it comes to certain opinions. I think there is room for bald people

I think (deep down) you want to believe that good people deserve to go to heaven. I want to believe the same thing.

But I am positive they must embrace Jesus Christ as their Lord and saviour in order to go to heaven within the context of Christianity.

Otherwise, to hell with the baldies.
(Not that they care, they don't believe it)

[George S.]

that depends what kind of life you live active or passive???Are you being swayed by god or the devil.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Did anyone catch tonight's episode of Q&A? If you're interested it should be available online soon at the following link.

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s3755423.htm

I only managed to see the last 20-30 minutes, but it was very relevant to this topic. The majority of the panel made good points along the way, but Lawrence Krauss in particular was very interesting to listen to. I must admit, some of Fred Nile's comments made me think of our very own Tom here.

[Phoenix]

Did anyone catch tonight's episode of Q&A? If you're interested it should be available online soon at the following link.

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s3755423.htm

I only managed to see the last 20-30 minutes, but it was very relevant to this topic. The majority of the panel made good points along the way, but Lawrence Krauss in particular was very interesting to listen to. I must admit, some of Fred Nile's comments made me think of our very own Tom here.

Fred Nile = Tom...lol

We don't hear much from Fred Nile these days, I think you would have been pretty young EM, when Mr Nile used to regularly grace us with his presence on TV...