Knock knock, its God calling

[Risto the Great]

Its important because there is a God that created everything and He did so with a specific plan. People are a special part of that creation and we alone were given a moral law to live by - a law that accords with God's nature. However, we were also given a free will and have the ability to choose whether we abide by that moral law or not.

Because there is a law, there is also a punishment for disobeying the law. This is called justice. And the punishment is eternity in hell. But the good news is this - God actually loves us and He doesn't want us to spend an eternity in hell, so He has taken the punishment for our sins (our disobedience of the law) on our behalf. He did this on the cross and then He rose again to demonstrate that He is God and what He says is true.

By repenting (of your disobedience) and putting your faith in Jesus, your sins against His moral law are forgiven because He has already paid your penalty in full. Instead of spending an eternity in hell, you spend an eternity with Him. But if you reject Him, then you're not covered by his insurance policy, so to speak, and you pay your own penalty because justice demands that sins are punished.

Tom, I hijacked this from your Easter thread.

Based on your assessment, it seems God wants the devil (and his hell) around. Is that a safe suggestion?

Why hasn't He destroyed the Devil yet?

[Bij]

The precious balance between good and evil?

[Risto the Great]

The precious balance between good and evil?

The story of my life. The pendulum needs to swing back a little though. I won't say what way lol

[Vangelovski]

Tom, I hijacked this from your Easter thread.

Based on your assessment, it seems God wants the devil (and his hell) around. Is that a safe suggestion?

Why hasn't He destroyed the Devil yet?

Not sure how you got that from my post...?

What difference does it make to you when and how God destroy's the Devil?

[Phoenix]

Not sure how you got that from my post...?

The Devil made him do it...

[EgejskaMakedonia]

I was about to respond to Tom's post in the Easter thread earlier today but didn't want to detract from the purpose of the thread.

This point in particular I want to question.

By repenting (of your disobedience) and putting your faith in Jesus, your sins against His moral law are forgiven because He has already paid your penalty in full. Instead of spending an eternity in hell, you spend an eternity with Him. But if you reject Him, then you're not covered by his insurance policy, so to speak, and you pay your own penalty because justice demands that sins are punished.

I still don't buy into this at all. So someone could dedicate their whole life to helping others and the general betterment of society, yet be banished to hell for eternity if they don't believe in God? Yet someone who has repetitively sinned and makes no contribution to society will be forgiven and potentially be eligible to enter the realm of heaven if they believe in God?

That seems like a rather warped sense of justice.

[Rogi]

If the Devil exists, then based on the premise of a "...God that created everything..." it would be right to say that God created the Devil. I would suppose this means he does want him around.

Side note: Can the devil repent? If he did, would he no longer spend an eternity in Hell?

[Vangelovski]

I was about to respond to Tom's post in the Easter thread earlier today but didn't want to detract from the purpose of the thread.

This point in particular I want to question.



I still don't buy into this at all. So someone could dedicate their whole life to helping others and the general betterment of society, yet be banished to hell for eternity if they don't believe in God? Yet someone who has repetitively sinned and makes no contribution to society will be forgiven and potentially be eligible to enter the realm of heaven if they believe in God?

That seems like a rather warped sense of justice.

How "good" is the person who supposedly dedicates their life to helping others or society? Have they never broken God's law? Have they never said or done anything wrong at all? Have they never thought or desired something bad? I doubt it. And why should someone imperfect enter the perfect kingdom of God? What kind of justice is that?

We're actually lucky that we have the ability to put our faith in Christ, otherwise we will be judged according to what we've done and what we've done throughout our lives is a lot of bad things if you're really honest with yourself. Not one of us would make it to heaven. Yet when God pays the penalty Himself and offers you a free pass if you choose to trust Him, you still complain that its not fair. Well, it sort of isn't fair - Perhaps you rather pay for your own sins - that would be more fair I suppose - what do you think? The question is, are you willing to do that? Or, would you rather take the free gift offered by a loving father (i.e. God) who pleads with you to accept it?

[Vangelovski]

Does anyone here ever take the slightest effort to inform themselves of the basics of Christianity (a faith they profess and identify with) before they post?

Its a bit like someone calling themselves a Macedonian and not being able to find Macedonia on a map.

[lavce pelagonski]

It is the same as only going Church on Easter and not have a clue what Lent is, all they think about is maso night.

[Risto the Great]

Not sure how you got that from my post...?

What difference does it make to you when and how God destroy's the Devil?

Well, He needs hell for those that do not repent. It is quite the deterrent! You said it. That is where they go.

The bible talks about the devil enough to suggest he is quite an evil sort and that we would be best served rejecting his influence. So why does God still leave him around? Can't he click his fingers and sort him out once and for all?

I have read somewhere that God will eventually smite the Devil but is making him suffer for a while. Wouldn't the world be nicer without the Devil?

But I get the feeling we will finish this up with the bit about it not being up to us to question God's intentions.

We're just insignificant sinners that somehow get to win the lotto of enlightenment if we go to heaven. How do we become so important once/if we go to heaven?

[Risto the Great]

The Devil made him do it...

Possibly.

[Risto the Great]

Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Others—for example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einstein—considered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws.

An interesting perspective.


Less inspiring:

The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying ... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity.

Interesting:

"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual.

Sagan also liked marijuana (a lot). But it is always nice to read intelligent people's thoughts.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Carl Sagan
"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual.

The problem of science v spirituality is the 'pesky' issue of "light years" (and other issues of the natural universe as recognized by science)
Science has a far more dynamic nature to question, whilst spirituality is a more 'confined' (some would argue, unquestioning) pursuit.

[Vangelovski]

Well, He needs hell for those that do not repent. It is quite the deterrent! You said it. That is where they go.

The bible talks about the devil enough to suggest he is quite an evil sort and that we would be best served rejecting his influence. So why does God still leave him around? Can't he click his fingers and sort him out once and for all?

I have read somewhere that God will eventually smite the Devil but is making him suffer for a while. Wouldn't the world be nicer without the Devil?

But I get the feeling we will finish this up with the bit about it not being up to us to question God's intentions.

We're just insignificant sinners that somehow get to win the lotto of enlightenment if we go to heaven. How do we become so important once/if we go to heaven?

The Devil's irrelevant to your personal salvation. You could ask the same question and insert anyone's name in there. It still has nothing to do with you or anyone else. Everyone is responsible for their own decisions.

Whether or not the world would be a nicer place without the devil, I'm not so sure. We've managed to stuff it up pretty well all on our own.

People aren't insignificant and enlightenment has nothing to do with anything. If we were insignificant or unimportant to God He would not have paid our debt for us.

Let me ask you something RtG, why did you wish everyone a happy Easter in the other thread and then less than 24 hours later question the very existence of the God whose sacrifice you initially acknowledged?