Chentovist the Slav

[Risto the Great]

You guys still havent argued what makes the language Macedonian other then to say its not slavic or greek or serbian. What makes it Macedonian? Does it have any relation to ancient Macedonian? If not then it has to be properly qualified for legitimate politics.

Hi Momce,
I banned you.

I was humouring myself with you for a while.
But this one really just about takes the cake. What makes it Macedonian? The fact that millions of people call it Macedonian REALLY helps, Wanker.

Maggots like you are asking for proof. If I was to assume you are nothing but a slimy Greek whose job here is to undermine the Macedonian identity by purporting to be a Macedonian yourself, then I would have to remind you that the modern Greek language arose from an experiment conducted over 150 years ago. That this process of developing this modern language was completely driven by attempting to link it to an unintelligible ancient language that many refer to as "ancient Greek".

Somehow, the result of this language "experiment" avails modern Greeks more of a connection to the ancient Hellenes than the Macedonians (to the ancient Macedonians) who have inhabited this region for millenniums and reflect all and sundry influences of the many people that have found their way into the region.

So, whilst you are asking "what makes it Macedonian", I would be inclined to ask you "What makes you anything but a wanker?".

[Vangelovski]

A language is grouped according to its characteristics etc and similarity with other languages. How is Modern Macedonian grouped?

Momce, are you purposely mixing apples and oranges or are you that far out of your depth?

You are yet to explain, in detail, what the origin of a language or the linguistic family it belongs to has anything to do with the actual name of the language. In the other thread, you said "it has a lot to do with it". EXPLAIN.

In addition, you are yet to explain the meaning of these other nonsensical concepts that you raised above.

[Vangelovski]

I would be inclined to ask you "What makes you anything but a wanker?".

Momce, add this one to my list of questions as well.

[Risto the Great]

They trace their ethnicity to the Slavs

I cannot accept this and refute it entirely. Yet I am happy to declare the Macedonian language as belonging to the slavic language family. I think the two issues are easily separable.

I am yet to see anyone define a slavic ethnicity.

[Stojacanec]

Actually the German language is classified as Germanic, as is English, Dutch and others. The Macedonian language is classified as Slavic, along with Russian, Serbian, Ukrainian and others. Whether this is correct or not, I'll leave you guys to debate. However it is currently recognized as such by all academic circles.

I choose not to ignore my Slavic heritage. It was the Dragoviti and Brsjak tribes that settled in the Pelagonia region, where I'm from. There are many toponyms to attest to this - Dragoro river, villages Dragosh, Dragozhani etc etc. I also however do not ignore my pre-Slavic heritage such as the Pelagones tribes of ancient Macedonians who inhabited Pelagonia, and who the region is named after.

You should be more careful who you try to alienate from the Macedonian cause.

You are alienating yourself. Since birth I have never heard of the term Slav from my parents or relatives or anybody closest to me. However. only from the conconcted bs from you and your greek/serb/albanian compatriots of late.

Do the Koreans question their link to ancient times all the while thier language broke off from the Chinese 700 years ago?

Do the Cypriots care that their country was overrun from the Venetians?

Are you a Macedonian or what somebody else choses you to be?

[Pelagon]

Actually the German language is classified as Germanic, as is English, Dutch and others.

You can add Swedish and Norwegian to that group but do any of them carry on about "their" Germanic/German heritage or is it British (or English), Nordic, Dutch, American, Australian and etc.? Where in the world would an Aussie from a British/English ancestry ever claim German or Germanic heritage and be proud of it? You SLAV-MALAKAS simply lack Macedonian national pride and have a need to attach yourselves to something other than Macedonian because your are brainwashed from childhood to be losers (that was the plan in SFRY) and thus to facilitate the easy assimilation into "YugoSLAVS" (in effect SERBS, as they dominated SFRY!).

The Macedonian language is classified as Slavic

The LANGUAGE IS CALLED MACEDONIAN and the linguistic group it belongs to should really be of little to no concern to non-academic and non-linguist people in general. The main people outside academic linguistic circles who utilise such designations are people who are into "pan-Slavic" ideology or westerners with their own ideological agendas to grind and our local anti-Macedonian Balkan enemies.

(along with Russian, Serbian, Ukrainian and others.

Russian and Serbians are DIRECT BENEFICIARIES of PAN-SLAVISM as an ideology, though the Serbs probably lost Kosovo because of it and may lose more territory to boot, and thus they were/are (or can/could be) proponents of slavism. The Ukrainians may get some psychological benefit (feel-good delusion) by claiming they (Kiev) were the centre of early "Slavdom" and since they are a huge country that is not threatened with genocide along the same lines as were are, it would be irrelevant to compare them to Macedonians.

Whether this is correct or not, I'll leave you guys to debate. However it is currently recognized as such by all academic circles.

"Academic" circles are not exactly ideologically untainted and there are many examples where this can be shown to be the case and thus relying on "international" bodies or foreign academics with an ideological axe to grind (or under ideological duress from the ruling political establishment) is not the correct way to view this anti-Macedonian label/agenda.

I choose not to ignore my Slavic heritage.

WTF is "Slavic heritage"? I think you would find that the so called "Slavs" have a Macedonian/Macedonic heritage in more ways than one.

It was the Dragoviti and Brsjak tribes that settled in the Pelagonia region, where I'm from.

Who told you this and why do you believe it?

There are many toponyms to attest to this - Dragoro river, villages Dragosh, Dragozhani etc etc.

Personally, I think that is just simple propaganda propagated by anti-Macedonian Vassals circles (or some pan-Slavists) in similar manner to claims about Kumanovo coming into existence due to Kumans building it or the adamant belief by brainwashed Macedonians that the Ventilator flag was inspired by ancient "rock art".

I also however do not ignore my pre-Slavic heritage such as the Pelagones tribes of ancient Macedonians who inhabited Pelagonia, and who the region is named after.

How exactly do you do that by proclaiming a "Slav" heritage? And just what happened to the indigenous Macedonians and who assimilated whom?

You should be more careful who you try to alienate from the Macedonian cause

You are undermining the cause and probably do not comprehend why and how. But since you are happy to go along with the politicians (and ruling establishment) that have just about destroyed the Macedonian cause 100% by destroying the Macedonian state, you may never wake up to it. Identifying as a "Slav" will surely give you some escape options to Serbia, Bulgaria or Russia and the Ghegs will gladly (and with a strong degree of reliability) give you those since they like to respect the foreign settlers who "occupied" (occupy) their "indigenous" land (and as most western academics would/do support as well) to get repatriated to their "original" homeland (behind the Carpathians).

[Pelagon]

Here's what Gruevski has said on the subject;

Macedonian PM: When there is judicious proposal for the name, a referendum will be held
19 January 2013 | 14:38 | FOCUS News Agency
Home / Bulgaria

Skopje.

Macedonian Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski is explicit that “when there
is a judicious proposal for solution to the name issue, a referendum
will be held, because asking for a change of the name is directly
connected to the change of identity”.
Grievski’s statement was made in an interview with host Milenko Nedelkovski on Macedonian Kanal5 TV.
Gruevski remarked that in Macedonia there were Macedonians. The prime minister agreed that the meaning of the word Macedonians did not mean that the population was Slavic or that they were ancient Macedonians. In his words, they are “only Macedonians and the ethno-genesis of the nation derives from many civilisations and in many centuries back into the past”.
Nikola Gruevski said further that the “Macedonian language has roots in the Slavic languages and we do not deny this fact, we are proud of it”.

Why is Gruevski more of an "authority" than Gligorov, Crvenkovski, Lupcho Georgievski and Stojan Andov, all of them having made similar or worse claims? What do they teach you at schools and universities in RM? Is it any different to what Gruevski says? Did Gruevski say that exactly or are you transmitting Bulgar interpretation and wishful thinking? Being an "Ancient Macedonian" living in the present sounds rather unnatural to me as you would need to have been a mummy that is walking around. But having indigenous continuity at various levels in blood, culture and language is not unreasonable to believe for a population that occupies the same territory as their predecessors. And it is even more absurd when continuity is afforded to all the surrounding populations, enemies who have territorial claims and ambitions to posses everything that is ours, but is then denied to us Macedonians on some bullshit scam theories.

[Gocka]

Izgleda nemat drug narod so imat olku mnogu kompleksi kolku nie sto imame. Kolku da se trudis da mu gi otvoris ocite, i da mu dajs gordost i dostoinstvo pak na krajot mu se vrajket starite kompleksi. Uste ne razbiram zosto lujge kako centovist, zosto ne razbiret deka samite se ponizuvet so toa so go zborvet.

Dali chentovist si svesen deka samiot se sramis i se ponizvis so toa so go kazivs? Dali si svesen deka mu pomogvis na tie so od sekogas sakale da ne izbriset od svetov, deka stanvis predavnik?

Dali svesno ili ne svesno, ne unistvis kako narod.

Barem ne koristigo i ne go srami imeto od nekoj so ako bil ziv denes, bi te smetal kako neprijatel.

[lavce pelagonski]

Metodija Chento was the opposite of everything Yugoslav. Admins change his name to Slavist it would suit him better.

[chentovist]

Why is Gruevski more of an "authority" than Gligorov, Crvenkovski, Lupcho Georgievski and Stojan Andov, all of them having made similar or worse claims? What do they teach you at schools and universities in RM? Is it any different to what Gruevski says? Did Gruevski say that exactly or are you transmitting Bulgar interpretation and wishful thinking? Being an "Ancient Macedonian" living in the present sounds rather unnatural to me as you would need to have been mummy that is walking around. But having indigenous continuity at various levels in blood, culture and language is not unreasonable to believe for a population that occupies the same territory as their predecessors. And it is even more absurd when continuity is afforded to all the surrounding populations, enemies who have territorial claims and ambitions to posses everything that is ours, but is then denied to us Macedonians on some bullshit scam theories.

Indeed I support what is taught in Macedonian schools and what the ruling elite support, including MANU, the President, PM, ruling party, opposition etc etc etc...in short the Macedonians. These are my people and I support them. We have enough enemies around us, wwe don't need any more from our own diaspora.

Ajde pozdrav, I slobodno mozite da me banirate ako vi precham tolku.

[chentovist]

Metodija Chento was the opposite of everything Yugoslav. Admins change his name to Slavist it would suit him better.

Did Chento support the view that we are ancient Macedonians with no relation to the Slavs?

[lavce pelagonski]

You can not be an ancient Macedonian you can only be a descendant. If Jane Sandanski could refer to himself as a descendant of Alexander the Great I am sure Chento felt the same.

If you refer to yourself as a Slav then you must also support the Serbs when they refer to us as South Serbs. You cant have it both ways.

[lavce pelagonski]

If you know anything about Chento you will know that he was fighting far a free and UNITED MACEDONIA.


50 YEARS AFTER HIS DEATH
METODIJA ANDONOV CENTO



Metodija Andonov Cento (known as Metodi),(18 August 1902 -24 July 1957)is a Macedonian national revolutionary and politician ,and the first president of The Presidium of ASNOM. Often because of his function of a president of The Presidium of ASNOM, Cento is named as a first President of Macedonia.
Biography
Born on 18 August 1902 in Prilep near to the this days football stadium, as a first healthy baby child after few diseased children of his parents, Andon that was from the Prilep village Pletvar and Zaharija (Zaka) that was from the Prilep village Lenista. Since he was a very small child , he used to work on the tobacco and opium fields. In his youth he was well known person and excellent in gymnastics’ finished High school in Prilep and in 1926 he opens a store and provides a dissent existence for himself. On 25 March 1930 in Novi Sad he joins a civil marriage with Vasilka Spirova Pop Atanasova.


That causes strong reactions in the conservative environment of Prilep, and after their return on 5 of May they are sentenced on 20 days because of living out of marriage. With Vasilka Cento has 4 children, that are alive even today, The oldest Ilija Andonov Cento in 1990 writes a biography y for his father.
Political activities before The Word War 2
Cento accepted and defended the Macedonian cause since his early youth. Participate in the elections in 1935 as a candidate ion the list of the united opposition, defending the Macedonian national cause and working on bigger freedom of the Macedonians and opening of schools in Macedonian language. On the elections in 1938 from the total number of votes given for the candidates of the opposition Cento wins the most, but, he wasn’t elected a MP because of the state manipulation with the election system. Cento was one of the organizers of the Ilinden Demonstrations in 1939 in Prilep, because of that he was sentenced to jail in Velika Kikinda.
In 1940 he proclaims introducing of the Macedonian language in the school lectures and he is sentenced again and sent to Baina Basta and was sentenced to death. He is also brought to shooting, but was released in last moment on April, 15, 1941. Before the World War 2 he was many times representative of the merchandise association of Prilep, and in the period 1935-1940 is a representative of The Industrial-trade association in Skopje where he stands up against the attacks of the Serbian government that the people in Macedonia are not grateful for all the benefits that the government has done, saying that if they let Macedonia to the Macedonians, they will make a flower garden out of it and economically developed country.
Few statement of this kind, were reported in Belgrade and were estimated as separatist and autonomist. He was a much respected person in the Prilep life.
Antifascism
Even at the beginning of the Bulgarian occupation on April,26, Cento gets an invitation to cooperate with the Bulgarian occupational authorities. He refuses the offer and instead chooses to cooperate with the ones that work on liberation of Macedonia from its ocupatores.
His store for alcohol in Prilep becomes a home for the communists from the city ,because of that the Bulgarian authorities sent him to the prison camp ,, Cuculigovo ,, Petric (Pirin Macedonia) After his release from international, The Headquarter of PLW and POM on August,21,1943 sends him an invitation letter in which they ask him to join in the PLW. In September he has a meeting with his co citizen Kuzman Josifovski Pitu, that persuades him to go and join in PLW.
Founding of the new Macedonian state
On the liberated territory in Debarce, Ohrid, Cento passes in October 1943. He is named for a member of the Headquarter, and after the founding of the Initiative Counsel for recalling of ASNOM, becomes its president As a part of The Counsel participates in the preparations and organization and recalling of ASNOM. At the beginning of may 1944,he,Emanuel Cuckov and Kiril Petrusev leave for Vis on a meeting with the People Comity for liberation of Yugoslavia with Josip Broz Tito on the head. The meeting is on July 24 on which they pose the question for unification of Macedonia after the liberation of occupation.
Tito seems to agree, but doesn`t think that it should be an immediate assignment. After they come back from Vis, the preparations around ASNOM are about to finish and on August,2 it starts the first session on it Cento is selected a President of The Presidium of ASNOM on this highest state organ of Democratic Federal Macedonia(later PR Macedonia) During the period while he is on this function, Metodija Andonov Cento was highly respected an loved by the people and fights for the idea that the governance should be in people’s hands, and that people can enter thru the same door true which the officials enter in the institutions.
According to his personal testimonies, Metodija Andonov Cento was respected by the President of Yugoslavia personally, Josip Broz Tito, that succeeds to persuade him to be a candidate for MP on the elections in 1946,althou the existing obstructions that made KPM to Cento
The confrontation with the new communist authorities
The first misunderstanding of Cento with the communists ,especially with Svetozar Vukmanovic - Tempo, begin very soon after his passing in the liberated teritory. Among the rest, Cento addresses notes about the content of the Manifest of The Headquarter .After the liberation of the country the misunderstandings with the Macedonian leadership back then continiue. Cento is against the idea that the 15th Macedonian corpus should go to the Srem front lines ,and stands up for unification and bigger independence of Macedonia, stands against the readmission of the properties of the escaped serb colonists and for a bigger financial independence, he also stands for a personal budget of Macedonia and the other republics The communists step by step take away his real power and as a consequence of his misunderstanding with the measures brought by the communists ,Cento on March,14 1946 resigns from the function of president of the Presidium of The People’s Parliament of Macedonia.
He wants to withdraw from the politics and live peacefully in Prilep but on July 14 is arrested by the police, and on July, 31 The Department for Interior Affairs announced that Cento was arrested for escape in Greece. On August, 8 against him there is an accusation act, and he is brought in front of the court on Novembre, 19 .The process lasts only two days, and after two days on November, 21, the first Macedonian president Cento is sentenced to 11 years of prison. In the prison, in conditions as inhuman as it’s possible, in a, special cell, and watched by a special service, and only 30 minutes of walk on a previously specified place, and once a week allowed visit of his family. While he was in prison, the authorities offered him many times to admit and sign that he made a mistake, and that he regards, after what his life would be totally safe. He is pardoned on September,4 1955,after 9 years and 4 months of prison. Anyway the prison life remains traces on his health. He asks for a passport from Tito to go on a medical treatment in Switzerland, but he is rejected. Alone and in unsupportable pain and tortures, Cento on July 24 1957 dies of intestinal cancer, in his home in Prilep. Even after he left prison, didn`t give up the ideas for independent and united Macedonia.
After his death
Long years after the death ,Metodija Andonov -Cento was a taboo subject and rarely mentioned in the historical books and literature, also public discussions on this item were strictly forbidden. In 1990, on request of his son Ilija Andonov –Cento the court process for Metodija Andonov Cento was refunded and on October, 22 after the repeated decision, The District Court in Skopje annulated the decision from 1946.Today in Macedonia there are his monuments in the center of his home town and the Skopje quarter that is named by his name,, Metodija Andonov Cento in 1991.

http://www.maticanaiselenici.com/en/?page=read_news&id=1725&PHPSESSID=418facd8814c2a243262e30af9f73183

[Noce Szatana]

There is a tremendous amount of misinformation being thrown around in this thread. The assertion that the designation 'Slavic' as an ethnicity, language group, or culture is thrown willy-nilly by academics is ridiculous. The presence of R1a halogroup and other genes prove the 'Slavic-ness' of Macedonians and Slavs as a whole. There has been a lot of work done in this field and to dismiss it based on your high school education or whatever biased sources you read is ridiculous. There are cut and dry facts - learn basic genetics and look at the figures, then tell me Macedonians are not Slavic.

That the percentage is lower compared to Poles, Ukrainians, and Russians can be explained by the original Macedonians contribution to the Y chromosome which is more prevalent in genetics. Original Macedonians don't exist and haven't for a long time. The language is clearly Slavic (I understand bits and pieces of Macedonian language and so could any other Slav - couldn't say the same for any Non-Slavic language)

Also, how is considering Macedonians Slavic conceding to the idea that Macedonians are South Serbs in any way?

I understand that there are reasons beyond my comprehension or knowledge that contribute to the idea of thinking of Macedonians as something other than Slavic, but spare me if anyone really believes that Macedonians are not linguistically or ethnically Slavic on any level. That is just delusional logic and a total lack of objectivity.

[Stojacanec]

Noce, you have just went on a dillusional rant. I think you miss the point entirely. Of the 75 odd countries in the world that speak English none go on about their germanic roots. It is a baseless argument.

Why would you lable Macedonian with prefixes or suffixes unlike any other ethnic based group.