Razer and Stefan - Bulgar morons

[Razer]

Don't bother Voltron, he'sis made up his mind and nothing will change that...Too sad.

[Razer]

@ Dragon

Do you know that Vasil Zlatarski lived like a century ago? He was born in 1866 and died in 1935. He's the so called "Grandfather of the Turkic theory", which today only about 10% of the Bulgarian historians and scientists still support. So brings yourself up-to-speed please, and look at the recent research done in the past 30 years.

And what if there were Bulgarians in China? Today there are 200,000 Macedonians in Australia - does that makes them Aborigines?

[Voltron]

I just posted the above images for those, who has never heard of Pliska.

Nice, didnt know much about that place.

[Risto the Great]

Risto, I think it would be fair to say it was Greek.

A Greek would think that. Particularly an ignorant one. Yet the fact that ancient Macedonian was considered a separate language from that of any of the ancient Greek city states seems to escape you. It also may escape you that far more educated people in this field have less to say about this matter than you do.

[Risto the Great]

However you want to call it. Greek was not a foreign language to them. I wont go into a pro Greek argument here. Im saying that Greek was spoken prior to the Macedonian language spoken today. No, It was not only limited to court use either.

Is English a foreign language to modern Greeks Voltron?
I think the comparison is quite precise.

[Risto the Great]

What you're saying simply has no valid historical ground. By the 6th century the ancient Macedonians were already a tiny minority, far outnumbered by the Slavsc, Bulgars are others. And also, you seem to forget that the alphabet we know today as Cyrillic is very different from what Cyril and Methody created.

Give me the numbers Razer. And references.

I agree that modern Cyrillic did indeed share from previous cultures most notably ancient Phoenician. I have no desire to stand in the way of progress but still adhere to my belief that the direction of learning came from Macedonia TO Bulgaria. Something you still choose to ignore whilst carrying on about other matters.

[Risto the Great]

Risto,i was only referring to your words,Macedonian (the Slavic dialect of the time) was not the original language of the Macedonians of those days.The native language of the Macedonians was the Ancient Macedonian language.Then,the events that followed changed that,and they eventually accepted the Slavic language of the newcomers.Slavs assimilated many people back then,basically all the native people that lived south of the Danube and all the way to Salonika were assimilated and accepted Slavic culture and language,including other newcomers like the turko-mongoloid Bulgars.

In order for your theory to work, you would have to believe in the slavic migration theory and you would also have to believe the number of these people were massive. I do not know what Slavic culture is. I do not know what the ancient Macedonian language was .... nor do experts in this field.

I see no reason for a Macedonian (aside from Gligorov) to propagate such assumptions without questioning the logic of them.

I believe the ancient Macedonian language has been influenced since time immemorial. But I also believe the ancient Macedonian language must have already had traits or similarities with others in the region long before any suggestions of mass migration.

You may have seen the MTO thread that showed the Macedonian language documented in the 16th century in a village in Kostur. The words seem impossibly the same as modern Macedonian! If it can remain untarnished for 500 years, why not another 500 or 1000 or 1500 years? If Macedonians are not going to defend their legacy, nobody else will.

[Risto the Great]

There is ample evidence to support the Iranian theory. They arent pulling it out of their ass. Have you even read any ?

I love girls with flowers in their hair. Aren't they cute!

Voltron, the Croats say they are originally from Iran, they say they have ample evidence. Are they really Bulgarians? Go tell them.

[Razer]

Re: Ancient Macedonians

Henry Noel Brailsford was a British journalist who visited Macedonia in 1903 and here is what he wrote:

Of the races which inhabit Macedonia to-day only the Albanians have any claim to be autochthonous. Their southern branch, the Tosks, are most likely the lineal descendants of the ancient Epirotes, Their northern branch, the Ghegs, are probably the people whom the ancients called lUyrians. Of the ancient Macedonians whose original seat lay between Monastir and Vodena, no heirs remain, unless indeed any remnants of them escaped civilisation and became confounded with the kindred Albanians. The Thracians may possibly survive in the modern Vlachs, at least in so far as they became absorbed by Roman colonies. All these original races, though doubtless near cousins of the Greeks, must have been very imperfectly Hellenised during the classical and Macedonian periods. The Greek colonies were never much more than trading centres along the coast, and what was Greek in ancient times is Greek to-day. There is no evidence tliat the interior was ever settled by a rural Greek population.

[Risto the Great]

Razer, do you believe the following from Brailsford:

Of the races which inhabit Macedonia to-day only the Albanians have any claim to be autochthonous. Their southern branch, the Tosks, are most likely the lineal descendants of the ancient Epirotes, Their northern branch, the Ghegs, are probably the people whom the ancients called lUyrians. Of the ancient Macedonians whose original seat lay between Monastir and Vodena, no heirs remain, unless indeed any remnants of them escaped civilisation and became confounded with the kindred Albanians. The Thracians may possibly survive in the modern Vlachs, at least in so far as they became absorbed by Roman colonies. All these original races, though doubtless near cousins of the Greeks, must have been very imperfectly Hellenised during the classical and Macedonian periods. The Greek colonies were never much more than trading centres along the coast, and what was Greek in ancient times is Greek to-day. There is no evidence tliat the interior was ever settled by a rural Greek population.

What other evidence do you rely on?
Do you accept all of Brailsford's opinions as fact?

[Razer]

I actually have too much material and don't know where to start from...And it's 4 am here in Sofia so I think I'll go to bed and post some more stuff later. But do I agree with Brailsford? There's no way to know for sure, the only way I shape up an opinion is by cross-referencing sources and placing them on top of factual historical evidence.

Cheers

[Razer]

Just something I forgot to say about the so called "quote" by Gotse Delchev... Apparently he said something like " He, who works for the unification of Macedonia to Greece, Bulgaria or Serbia, can think of himself as a great Greek, Bulgarian or Serbian but not as a Macedonian". I have seen this quote posted few times in this forum. But here's the truth about it. Yes - Gotse Delchev said those words, but in a fictional book called "Ilinden" written in 1953 by the Bulgarian author Dimitar Talev, born in Prilep. Here is the original extract from the book (the only difference is that "Serbia" has been added):



And here is the full book in PDF format.

[Risto the Great]

Just something I forgot to say about the so called "quote" by Gotse Delchev... Apparently he said something like " He, who works for the unification of Macedonia to Greece, Bulgaria or Serbia, can think of himself as a great Greek, Bulgarian or Serbian but not as a Macedonian". I have seen this quote posted few times in this forum. But here's the truth about it. Yes - Gotse Delchev said those words, but in a fictional book called "Ilinden" written in 1953 by the Bulgarian author Dimitar Talev, born in Prilep. Here is the original extract from the book (the only difference is that "Serbia" has been added):

Talev was born in Prilep from what I have just read.
Why do you call him Bulgarian?
Other writers have suggested Talev was quoting Delcev.
You have been trying to get this one in for a long time. I question your agenda Razer.

[Razer]

Talev was born in Prilep from what I have just read.
Why do you call him Bulgarian?
Other writers have suggested Talev was quoting Delcev.
You have been trying to get this one in for a long time. I question your agenda Razer.

Anything is possible. Maybe Delcev really said it, I'm not sure. What was the original source?

[Risto the Great]

Anything is possible. Maybe Delcev really said it, I'm not sure. What was the original source?

I would suggest Delcev.