Razer and Stefan - Bulgar morons

[Razer]

@ Razer

Dude,the guy from Stip (which happens to be my hometown) is full of shit.Let me tell you why.First of all he's the ONLY Bulgarian from Stip that I've ever heard of (and I live in Stip since my birth).Secondly,he says that getting new licence plates for a car in Macedonia costs up to 2500 Euros.Well my registration expenses are some 200 Euros MAX.So he's lying.Third,like most Bulgarians,he again stresses out the theory that when Tito came to power he created Macedonian language,identity etc etc.Well,my grandfather is born in 1930.So that's some 15 years BEFORE the alleged 'invention' of our nation.He's one of maybe 100 000 - 200 000 (exact number unknown) people that were born pre-1945 and are still alive today.If they really were Bulgarians previously,why didn't anyone back in 1991 (and back then there were even more of those people alive) when we won our independence and communism died, stand up and say to the world 'alright men,enough was enough,the commies are down,let's go back being Bulgarians again'?Because they WEREN'T.And honestly,how can one person with a simple stroke of a pen create a nation overnight and all those people in question were perfectly fine with that?It's like today Barrack Obama signs a decree that all Americans become a new nation.Would the Americans just embrace that?Would any normal person do?And don't say 'well the commies held them at gunpoint so they had to keep their mouths shut'.No one can hold more than 2 million people hostage.Those are facts that most Bulgarians overlook today.My grandparents and people their generation always felt Macedonian.If indeed even after 1991 it was forbidden to express your national feelings publicly,there would still be family chit-chats on that subject and people would be talking about it secretly.So why aren't they?It's pure logic and common sense - they were always Macedonians.
Most Macedonians go to Bulgarian college and obtain Bulgarian college degree and passport because of the opportunities it offers them - Bulgarian universities are internationally well recognized and their diploma is well appreciated,unlike Macedonian ones.With Bulgarian passport you can go everywhere in the world without visa or stay restrictions.Macedonian passport doesn't offer that.Macedonians do it for better life opportunities,not because they revived their Bulgarian national feelings like it's presented in Bulgaria.And let me point you to another propaganda from your government.One of my friends has a dual Macedonian and Bulgarian citizenship.On his Bulgarian ID card,in English a paragraphs says 'citizenship'.Your buddies have that translated to the Bulgarian word of 'nationality'.Instead of 'гражданство (државјанство)' they wrote 'националност',as in ethnic affiliation.Manipulation of the highest degree.Shame on them.

Thanks for the great feedback. I appreciate responds like yours, really! This is the kind of open communication I am looking for because it makes me help see your position much, much better. Do I believe the Bulgarian side of the story? NO. I just want to get to the bottom of this very dramatic, complicated but also interesting for me issue.

Can I ask what year was your grandfather born?

[United MKD]

Can I ask what year was your grandfather born?

Going on from what Dragan was saying - my grandfather was born in 1916 and fought in WWII. I sure as hell know he was not fighting for Serbia or Bulgaria.

[Razer]

To me, the question is what alphabet the Bulgars used before adopting the Glagolitic. To say it's undeniable that Bulgars adopted the alphabet from the Slavs is a a bit of an overstatement, since there are resembles between old Bulgar runic scripts and the Glagolic letters. Here's a table comparing both scripts. Glagolitic letters are on the far left (before the small arrow) and the Bulgar runic letters on the right.



This topic has been debated over centuries and no one today can say for sure what the origin of the Slavonic was, so this is why I don't like making bold statements...

[Razer]

Going on from what Dragan was saying - my grandfather was born in 1916 and fought in WWII. I sure as hell know he was not fighting for Serbia or Bulgaria.

What region was your grandfather born in?

[Razer]

Here's one proposition about the origin of the Cyrillic, linking it untimely to Scythian, Phoenician and Assyrian.

[DraganOfStip]

Thanks for the great feedback. I appreciate responds like yours, really! This is the kind of open communication I am looking for because it makes me help see your position much, much better. Do I believe the Bulgarian side of the story? NO. I just want to get to the bottom of this very dramatic, complicated but also interesting for me issue.

Can I ask what year was your grandfather born?

Uh...didn't you read the whole post?I wrote he was born in 1930.His birthplace is a village called Trogertsi (don't recall whether it was Gorno or Dolno Trogertsi but whatever) in the Stip area.

[Razer]

Ah, sorry...Thanks. Was that territory under Bulgarian occupation in 1930? That is 17 years after the Balkan War and the partitioning of Macedonia.

[United MKD]

What region was your grandfather born in?

Debar/Struga region.

[Onur]

RtG,I would disagree with this because Macedonian language was also introduced to the Macedonian people after being slavicized,it wasn't their native language.

Then what was the language of the Macedonians in 9th century if they were also the subjects of assimilation with it like Bulgars? Whats your suggestion, Greek, Turkic or Bulgarian nationalist theories of Afghan pashtun Iranic?

If Macedonians were also part of the assimilation then whose language Cyril&Methodious inspired from when they created Cyrillic script? Who was the source of slavic language for Cyril&Methodius if Macedonians in Salonika and Ohrid was also assimilated with it?

To me, the question is what alphabet the Bulgars used before adopting the Glagolitic. To say it's undeniable that Bulgars adopted the alphabet from the Slavs is a a bit of an overstatement, since there are resembles between old Bulgar runic scripts and the Glagolic letters. Here's a table comparing both scripts. Glagolitic letters are on the far left (before the small arrow) and the Bulgar runic letters on the right.

We already discussed about this before here years ago in the link i recommended you to read;

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=17461#post17461

Btw Bulgarian nationalists are trying to invent separate "Bulgarian runic" over there?
It is Turkic runic script as attested in all over Eurasia. Bulgars also used it as other Turkic peoples and early Hungarians did before. There is no such a thing as "Bulgarian runic script" separate from Turkic runic.

I find it so absurd while Hungarian and Turkish historians are working together about this issue for more than 100 years while you Bulgarians over there are trying to invent separate and distant history for yourself with your mythical theories since 1990s but i know not all Bulgarian scholars agrees with this futile attempts.

Here's one proposition about the origin of the Cyrillic, linking it untimely to Scythian, Phoenician and Assyrian.

No one knows the language or script of the Scythians for sure as we have no evidence. The proposed relations with semitic people`s alphabets like Phoenician or Assyrian are also wishful thinking without proof.

Imho, most likely Cyril&Methodious used Latin, Greek and Turkic runic letters as inspiration while they created Cyrillic. I say Turkic runic letters too because there are some similarities with it and because Bulgars was using this script before they switched to Cyrillic.

[Razer]

I wish I was a specialist in that area so that I can give you more detailed information. In Bulgaria this is considered as science (has nothing to do with nationalism, you're mad) and there are many people who dedicate their whole lives researching it, but still can't say anything for fact.

Can you post an example of this Turkic runic?

[Razer]

Do you mean the Orchon and Yenisei turkic runic script?

Orchon:



Yenisei:

[Razer]

Also, Cyril and Methody created the Glagolitic, and not the Cyrillic which was created later by their disciples in Pliska, Preslav and Ohrid. In Bulgaria, the fathers of the Cyrillic are called "Свети Седмочисленици" (the Seventh Saints) and are Cyril and Methody, and then their disciples Clement, Naum, Gorazad, Sava and Angelarii. Constantine of Preslav is also considered an important figure.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Razer, as a non Macedonian why spend so much time here? In, search of the TRUTH? Want to help?

100% PROPAGANDA [CODE]http://makedonskatribuna.com/[CODE] racist staro magare (80+)
He, THINKS he's Luben Dimitroff

NOTE

If, you don't know that zaspan (MLADENOFF) you know NOTHING!!

[Razer]

I guess I find it interesting because I haven't lived on the Balkans for so many years. And I have always been fascinated by history and politics, it's something like a hobby for me to research different topics and stay in touch with what's going on in this crazy world...I'll lookup this Mladenoff character...

[Razer]

Re: The Cyrillic

I don't know if you know, but in Bulgaria there's an organisation (Фондация Българска Памет), which is pushing the European Parliament to officially recognise the Cyrillic alphabet as "Bulgarian". Currently there are 3 official alphabets in the union - Greek, Latin and Cyrillic (which they aim to change to Bulgarian).