Ventilator

[julie]

Bratot,

Please specifically demonstrate the "egocentrism" and "double standard" in my posts seeing as you have included me in your generalisation.

and me please how am i someone with double standards and how am i in my ego please ? Fighting for sovereign macedonia . free . And do you acknowledge the diaspora constantly being belittled , we need to unite globally as one people and you fail to recognise we are no less of a macedonian born in strantstvo for wanting to keep our name

[indigen]

Originally Posted by Bratot View Post If Macedonia is in danger, you don't need - "st

Originally Posted by Bratot View Post
If Macedonia is in danger, you don't need - "state of emergency" nor inventing alibi for yourself - "we are told not to 'interfere' in the internal affairs", but you will catch the first flight and take arms to defend Macedonia, that should be the true materialization of your big words!

Bratot, quite frankly that is utter rubbish.
You never responded to my point:

How many Macedonians from Macedonia defended Macedonia in 2001?

If the Macedonians in Macedonia weren't caring or even aware about anything in Macedonia, perhaps we in the Diaspora are on a higher moral standing.

To be honest, I resent the Macedonian Governments that failed Macedonians. I also resent the Macedonian people for selling out my ancestry after the referendum failed.

Originally Posted by Bratot
If Macedonia is in danger, you don't need - "state of emergency" nor inventing alibi for yourself - "we are told not to 'interfere' in the internal affairs", but you will catch the first flight and take arms to defend Macedonia, that should be the true materialization of your big words!

Are you saying that we from the Diaspora should go ahead and fly to Macedonia and wipe out the political leadership - THE REAL ENEMY - who are, have been and will continue to be, selling out the nation and national interests whilst the resident population there sits idly by and continues to elect them and give them legitimacy and protection via the armed services of the state machinery? What are the chances of us ending up dead or in Indrizovo prison if we were to try that? :-)

Bratot, do you know that only trained reservists were called up to shore up the existing military forces and there was a huge UPROAR (GALAMA) when late in the piece in 2001 a part of the people of Prilep ransacked the army stores there and began arming themselves? The REACTION of the "Macedonian" armed security forces was VERY, VERY EFFECTIVE in surrounding and disarming them. It was the only time they acted with panic, vigour and resolution, which makes me think that the whole 2001 "war" was carefully orchestrated in order to implement long-standing plans for deconstruction of the Macedonian national state into a non-Macedonian Ramkovist Macedonia. Read my signature file below and realise that Todor Petrov back in early 1998 is talking about some people in the then ruling circles wanting Macedonia to become what was implemented in 2001.

Secondly, do you think revolutions (political or otherwise) are the work of people with guns only? Can any armed revolution happen without political agitation preceding it and not be called a military putsch? Who has precedence and control in a political revolution, the armed militant/rebel or the political leadership?

[julie]

To all the wankers who are having a cry over a disgusting articial flag that does not represent a macedonian in any way but infact insults us, it carrys on the filthy deeds of pure communits traitors who have slept with the enemy in order for a quick pay check can go and dig your self a fucking hole!

am proud of my maternal side under duress spat on the greek flag . Got tortured for it some survived but never took it up the ass and kissed it . Got kicked out or wiped out and held their macedonian heads high . Dad left republic in disgust . Spent 2 years in prison trying to revolt . Actually bratot you slander my family .

[Lion of Macedon]

you quoted me but referring ur answer and frustrations towards bratot??

[Pelister]

am proud of my maternal side under duress spat on the greek flag . Got tortured for it some survived but never took it up the ass and kissed it . Got kicked out or wiped out and held their macedonian heads high . Dad left republic in disgust . Spent 2 years in prison trying to revolt . Actually bratot you slander my family .

I don't think Lion of Macedon understands what Macedonians have been through, and are going through right now. The people who changed the flag, the same people who got us to change the Constitution, and the people trying to get us to change our name - the whole point of that is to cause division, and create division within Macedonian society. What Lion of Macedon thinks about the current flag, it wasn't our first choice and it was imposed on us, by foriegn interference. He is in fact voting to reward and acknowledge foriegn interference in what should have been a soveriegn matter., but I don't think he understands that.

[Bill77]

To all the wankers who are having a cry over a disgusting articial flag that does not represent a macedonian in any way but infact insults us, it carrys on the filthy deeds of pure communits traitors who have slept with the enemy in order for a quick pay check can go and dig your self a fucking hole!

Well thats a fact. It does not represent Macedonians only the citizens that live in ROM. Because i do not live in Macedonia, i don't spend to much time worrying about it. The 16 ray symbol and even the Lion, truely represents all Macedonians. The Australian Flag has more meaning to me then the current Macedonian State Flag. But this Aussie flag will never be above the True Macedonian Flag which represents my ancestors aswell it will represent my future generations.

[julie]

you quoted me but referring ur answer and frustrations towards bratot??

yes you are correct . Your quote illustrates one example to him of how my family supposedly did nothing

[George S.]

i agree with pelister it;s the same shit all over again the macedonian people are their own worst enemy.Julie i feel sympathy towards you & your family if you suffered ubder the hands of the greeks.I prefer the 16 ray sun & they should never have changed it to the 8 ray sun.

[julie]

spolaj te george but i dont need nor ask for pity mine were a small number of multitudes . I use my family as an example because in the diaspora i apparently have not done anything and have no right to ask macedonians in the republic including my snoT NOSE RELATIVES TO DO NOTHING

[Bratot]

OK Bratot, you are against the current flag but will not tell Macedonians in Macedonia about it.

I will disrespect Macedonians who stand in the way of human rights. In fact, they are my enemy. How about you, how will you treat them?

I don't think you have any other enemy except yourself for this moment.

If I think you are wrong and I want to put you on the right track, should I start with calling you stupid, vassal, lazy, or even a enemy?

You basically feel animosity to everyone that haven't reach your level of awareness, but yet you are uncapable to transmit your knowledge to the people.

Bratot,

Please specifically demonstrate the "egocentrism" and "double standard" in my posts seeing as you have included me in your generalisation.

It's all about your verbal bullying Vangelovski, attempting to enforce your reasoning over all others by being arrogant, rude and supposedly flawless on any subject.

If you improve your communication with people you might see an effect, but until that happen people will reject you even if you might be correct in the root of the matter.

[Bratot]

Are you saying that we from the Diaspora should go ahead and fly to Macedonia and wipe out the political leadership - THE REAL ENEMY - who are, have been and will continue to be, selling out the nation and national interests whilst the resident population there sits idly by and continues to elect them and give them legitimacy and protection via the armed services of the state machinery? What are the chances of us ending up dead or in Indrizovo prison if we were to try that? :-)

If you want to inspire changes you will have to implement practically your ideas.

If you are afraid that you might end up dead or inprisoned while trying, what do you think happen/ed to all of those individuals (in RoM) that already tried?

Lets say that I have experienced only a small portion of such concequences and that is what I'm trying to explain to Risto, that he should not expect mirracle to happen.

What we need is a movement, on field and underground, logystic support, finances and human resources.
That is the ONLY way to achieve something and there are many practical examples from other countries that we could follow or just turn to our history.

You know that Albanians worked hard for the last 40 years to achieve their national expansion in the last 10.

Bratot, do you know that only trained reservists were called up to shore up the existing military forces and there was a huge UPROAR (GALAMA) when late in the piece in 2001 a part of the people of Prilep ransacked the army stores there and began arming themselves? The REACTION of the "Macedonian" armed security forces was VERY, VERY EFFECTIVE in surrounding and disarming them. It was the only time they acted with panic, vigour and resolution, which makes me think that the whole 2001 "war" was carefully orchestrated in order to implement long-standing plans for deconstruction of the Macedonian national state into a non-Macedonian Ramkovist Macedonia. Read my signature file below and realise that Todor Petrov back in early 1998 is talking about some people in the then ruling circles wanting Macedonia to become what was implemented in 2001.

There were volounteers, beside those who were called as reservists later.

Those "trained" reservists were the 40+ years old men who lived close to the conflicted areas.

Secondly, do you think revolutions (political or otherwise) are the work of people with guns only? Can any armed revolution happen without political agitation preceding it and not be called a military putsch? Who has precedence and control in a political revolution, the armed militant/rebel or the political leadership?

It was somebody else that called for a revolution.

It seems you doubt in such development, so maybe we could abandon the violent scenario and work on implanting the right ideology in a PROPER manner.

[julie]

Bratot, then how does the diaspora implant the right ideology in a proper manner? By waiting for their to be a miraculous shift in consciousness? The divisiveness you speak of emanates from the Republic, with the scorn for the diaspora. I am unable to provide financial assistance, for the mental shift in consciousness

[Bratot]

Bratot, then how does the diaspora implant the right ideology in a proper manner? By waiting for their to be a miraculous shift in consciousness? The divisiveness you speak of emanates from the Republic, with the scorn for the diaspora. I am unable to provide financial assistance, for the mental shift in consciousness

Nobody asked you for money, nor suggested some social engeneering.

We need only one enough homogenous critical mass that will take the stake and carry on the changes.

About the proper manner you should re-read what you pm'ed me on 10-04-2010 and 10-05-2010.

I hope you will realize your behavioural shift after.

[Vangelovski]

It's all about your verbal bullying Vangelovski, attempting to enforce your reasoning over all others by being arrogant, rude and supposedly flawless on any subject.

If you improve your communication with people you might see an effect, but until that happen people will reject you even if you might be correct in the root of the matter.

"Verbal bullying"???

Bratot, if you're going to make a statement such as, 'where was the diaspora during 2001', you need to back it up, not run crying foul when you're statement is shown as baseless and childish.

[Bratot]

Your previous comment had nothing to do with your twisted allegation now but it is cristal clear you are not prepared to hear any critic.

I have made my point and I'm not going to exercise your communication inability again and again.