Perceptions of God, Creationism and Evolution

[Vangelovski]

TV, why do you fear the progress of mankind, we're already playing a small part in the creation of life. Today many couples are able to have children because of advances in science, we've unlocked many of the secrets of the building blocks of life...slow progress will eventually become a stampede, I hope you're not left behind wearing the ill fitting straightjacket of fundementalist Christianity...

Haha, let me know when the stampede comes

Christians have led 'progress' throughout history. That's not the issue. The issue is how we use that progress.

[indigen]

Originally Posted by Phoenix
Can't evolution serve a purpose...?

The evolution of mankind is purpose enough, from savage to a higher intelligence, a journey that could see mankind one day reach a higher plane of existence, perhaps assuming the mantle of 'creator'...I don't see that as a bad thing...

Evolution is blind chance. There is no guiding force, no intelligence, just randomness. How can there be a purpose? By definition, evolution is purposeless.

This to me IS the great purpose of evolution!

"Survival of the fittest" is a popular term that refers to the process of natural selection, a mechanism that drives evolutionary change. Natural selection works by giving individuals who are better adapted to a given set of environmental conditions an advantage over those that are not as well adapted

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8. Are evolution and "survival of the fittest" the same thing?
Evolution and "survival of the fittest" are not the same thing. Evolution refers to the cumulative changes in a population or species through time. "Survival of the fittest" is a popular term that refers to the process of natural selection, a mechanism that drives evolutionary change. Natural selection works by giving individuals who are better adapted to a given set of environmental conditions an advantage over those that are not as well adapted. Survival of the fittest usually makes one think of the biggest, strongest, or smartest individuals being the winners, but in a biological sense, evolutionary fitness refers to the ability to survive and reproduce in a particular environment. Popular interpretations of "survival of the fittest" typically ignore the importance of both reproduction and cooperation. To survive but not pass on one's genes to the next generation is to be biologically unfit. And many organisms are the "fittest" because they cooperate with other organisms, rather than competing with them.

[Phoenix]

Haha, let me know when the stampede comes

Christians have led 'progress' throughout history. That's not the issue. The issue is how we use that progress.

I don't agree that Christians have led progress throughout history.
I think its a very arrogant and unfortunate statement that you make as it totally disregards the achievements of people of other religions and belief systems, that make up the sum of our knowledge today.

Actually TV, I'm a bit shocked by such a Victorian attitude but then again that level of Victorian arrogance is the soul of fundementalist Christianity and its inability to coexist with scientific breakthrough.

[Vangelovski]

I don't agree that Christians have led progress throughout history.
I think its a very arrogant and unfortunate statement that you make as it totally disregards the achievements of people of other religions and belief systems, that make up the sum of our knowledge today.

Actually TV, I'm a bit shocked by such a Victorian attitude but then again that level of Victorian arrogance is the soul of fundementalist Christianity and its inability to coexist with scientific breakthrough.

I was referring to modern scientific progress - that was the context in which we were talking. But I did not mean to discount the achievements of scientists of other faiths, which have been just as impressive, particularly post-second world war.

I'm still not sure why you claim Christians cannot "coexist" with "science", seeing as science is just a methodology of obervation and experimentation. Perhaps you're not really understanding either Christianity or science?

[vojnik]

I don't agree that Christians have led progress throughout history.
I think its a very arrogant and unfortunate statement that you make as it totally disregards the achievements of people of other religions and belief systems, that make up the sum of our knowledge today.

Actually TV, I'm a bit shocked by such a Victorian attitude but then again that level of Victorian arrogance is the soul of fundementalist Christianity and its inability to coexist with scientific breakthrough.

That doesn't make sense there have been various links which have been shared which prove that science and Christianity can coexist. Scientific facts are proof of this because it is those science facts which proof that Creationism is the truth not evolution. Evolution is just a scientific theory with no conclusive evidence to prove it as fact. There is a huge difference between fact and theory. Sure it would be cool if we could create something out of nothing but unfortunatly it can not be achieved unless your God. Only God has the power to create and science supports this.

Also Christians have led progress through history as modern science was founded by Christians that wanted to use science to prove the existance of God which they did. Sure there has been contributions from other races and religions but the driving force behind modern scientific breakthroughs and facts has been due to Christianity the theories in modern science like "evolution" are invented by anti-christs like yourself who attempt o discredit God and Creationism but fail

THE END

[Vangelovski]

Indigen,

Purpose out of purposelessness! What a mess! I'm still waiting for $50 to appear in my wallet.

[indigen]

Indigen,
Purpose out of purposelessness! What a mess! I'm still waiting for $50 to appear in my wallet.

Haha.....I don't really care what your (or anybody else's) take is on evolution as long as we are aligned on the main Macedonian national cause! Well, as Deng Xiaoping of China once said, it doesn't matter what colour the cat is, as long as it catches mice. If you can form a 1,000 man army of Vangelovisti (some might dread the thought), I would easily join up and fake creationism!

[makedonin]

The big difference is that science begins through observation, is organized through theory that should be put to test and if tests fail new observation and theoretical examination is done. It is circular process.

Creationists begin with their belief that the creation proces as described in the Bible must be literally accurate 100%. Their theory is already fixed and methodology of examination and testing must be adapted. It is no circular process of reexamination, but a quest to find what you want to find.
With previously fixed view, there is no room for adaption of theoretical view point in the face of new evidence and material.

Like the chance wants it, the human mind will play tricks on anyone who desperately is looking for something.

[vojnik]

The big difference is that science begins through observation, is organized through theory that should be put to test and if tests fail new observation and theoretical examination is done. It is circular process.

Creationists begin with their belief that the creation proces as described in the Bible must be literally accurate 100%. Their theory is already fixed and methodology of examination and testing must be adapted. It is no circular process of reexamination, but a quest to find what you want to find.
With previously fixed view, there is no room for adaption of theoretical view point in the face of new evidence and material.

Like the chance wants it, the human mind will play tricks on anyone who desperately is looking for something.

So your saying that experiment results from creationists are flawed because it is a figment of their imagination and not scientific fact?

[Vangelovski]

So your saying that experiment results from creationists are flawed because it is a figment of their imagination and not scientific fact?

And evolutionists aren't biased in interpreting the data nor are they human in that they always admit to their mistakes no matter how long they have pinged their careers on darwinism! They must be the latest mutation - we Christians have been left behind!

[Vangelovski]

Haha.....I don't really care what your (or anybody else's) take is on evolution as long as we are aligned on the main Macedonian national cause! Well, as Deng Xiaoping of China once said, it doesn't matter what colour the cat is, as long as it catches mice. If you can form a 1,000 man army of Vangelovisti (some might dread the thought), I would easily join up and fake creationism!

A thousand man army would be a miracle for Macedonia, and still far short of what's required! But you're right, the world would be a much better place if there were more of me - perhaps I should look into cloning after all

[vojnik]

And evolutionists aren't biased in interpreting the data nor are they human in that they always admit to their mistakes no matter how long they have pinged their careers on darwinism! They must be the latest mutation - we're Christians have been left behind!

This must be the latest split in the evolutionary tree how could us creationists be so blind!!! We went from being split into Humans and Chimps and now recently into Creationists and Evolutionists with the humans in the past being our common ancestor! Ground breaking

[Phoenix]

I'm still not sure why you claim Christians cannot "coexist" with "science", seeing as science is just a methodology of obervation and experimentation. Perhaps you're not really understanding either Christianity or science?

You know exactly what I'm talking about...
I find the condescending tone of your reply very offensive.

The entire debate between evolutionists and creationists has the coexistence of science and religion at its core.
The only time science isn't an issue to Christian fundementalists is when it doesn't step on their toes or when they believe that science supports their beliefs.

[Phoenix]

That doesn't make sense there have been various links which have been shared which prove that science and Christianity can coexist. Scientific facts are proof of this because it is those science facts which proof that Creationism is the truth not evolution. Evolution is just a scientific theory with no conclusive evidence to prove it as fact. There is a huge difference between fact and theory. Sure it would be cool if we could create something out of nothing but unfortunatly it can not be achieved unless your God. Only God has the power to create and science supports this.

Also Christians have led progress through history as modern science was founded by Christians that wanted to use science to prove the existance of God which they did. Sure there has been contributions from other races and religions but the driving force behind modern scientific breakthroughs and facts has been due to Christianity the theories in modern science like "evolution" are invented by anti-christs like yourself who attempt o discredit God and Creationism but fail

THE END

I find it particularly rich that you of all people on this forum have the audacity to question the sense of my posts or the logic that I use.

You were the author of possibly the most ridiculous post to have seen daylight on this forum with your dinosaur post and you only backed down from that after you were howled down by most posters, your lame arse excuse was that you were providing a ridiculous example of something...

You refuse to acknowledge all mainstream scientific fact that doesn't sit comfortably with the stories in the bible, prefering to persue 'young earth theories', no evidence of dinosaurs, no evidence of evolution and other flat earth lunacy...

[vojnik]

I find it particularly rich that you of all people on this forum have the audacity to question the sense of my posts or the logic that I use.

You were the author of possibly the most ridiculous post to have seen daylight on this forum with your dinosaur post and you only backed down from that after you were howled down by most posters, your lame arse excuse was that you were providing a ridiculous example of something...

You refuse to acknowledge all mainstream scientific fact that doesn't sit comfortably with the stories in the bible, prefering to persue 'young earth theories', no evidence of dinosaurs, no evidence of evolution and other flat earth lunacy...

Yes there was dinosaurs even the Bible talks of them, there is no FACT of evolution if so present some evidence of this THEORY