Perceptions of God, Creationism and Evolution

[julie]

Religion is a tool used by the few to control the many, quite simple.

watching Zeitgeist was quite thought provoking Daskale

[Daskalot]

watching Zeitgeist was quite thought provoking Daskale

Zeitgeist is only the beginning of the rabbit hole, it goes much further than that........ there is so much to learn.

[Delodephius]

Zeitgeist is only the beginning of the rabbit hole, it goes much further than that........ there is so much to learn.

I went so far down the hole I forgot about Zeitgeist.

[George S.]

Guys if we could only harness this energy & ferever on this thread we would probably solve all the worlds problems.

[TrueMacedonian]

Guys if we could only harness this energy & ferever on this thread we would probably solve all the worlds problems.

YouTube - ‪Sam Harris: Why We Should Ditch Religion | CNN‬‏

[Phoenix]

I reckon vojnik is a graduate of the 'Wendy Wright School of Denial', where the students walk around a museum full of fossils and the evolutionary history of all animals on our planet wearing blindfolds and asking "where's the proof", wearing the imbecilic grin of those wide mouth carnival clowns in arcade games where you put the ball in their gaping mouths hoping to win a prize...And of course the stupid bimbo type laugh...

[Vangelovski]

TM - my understanding is that light or "night and day" as we know it, was not created until the 3rd day. Therefore day 1 and day 2 could concievably actually have been millions or billions of years long. I believe that this is the Orthodox understanding of Genesis. It's only certain Christian sects that get caught up in stating exact time periods like ie. the Earth is 5000 or 6000 years old.

If you're so hung up on providing scientific proof why do you have an Orthodox cross as your avatar. You're avatar leads me to believe that you are Christian and believe in God. The cross is symbol of faith, it represents the life, death and resurrection of our saviour, Jesus Christ. It's not decoration.

Brandy, I think its quite clear that Genesis talks about 6 literal days. I'm not sure where you got the "Orthodox" view on that.

[Vangelovski]

Makedonin, still chasing the unicorn?

Pheonix, please provide examples of these fossils that prove evolution, and please provide us with YOUR view for once.

TM, one skeleton! Really! And what was it a skelleton of? How does it provide a "link"? What exactly is it providing a "link" between? What are the details of the skeleton? Any further information? Let us know when they find another ape tooth and claim its a "half-way" between a monkey and a man.

Further, there is nothing that you could show me that I have not already seen. I've been reasearching these issues for years, I don't just trawl through youtube and low-quality sites on a needs basis. If you are really intersted, I can give you the names of scholarly journals and books from both atheists and Christians.

[vojnik]

I reckon vojnik is a graduate of the 'Wendy Wright School of Denial', where the students walk around a museum full of fossils and the evolutionary history of all animals on our planet wearing blindfolds and asking "where's the proof", wearing the imbecilic grin of those wide mouth carnival clowns in arcade games where you put the ball in their gaping mouths hoping to win a prize...And of course the stupid bimbo type laugh...

When will you get off the sideline and raise some valid points in this discussion with evidence to back claims, as a senior member of this forum you are proving to be nothing but pathetic. Your insults mean nothing and your claims are beyond reasonable, so unless you have anything to disprove anything about creationism and solidify that evolution is the way to go I suggest you just stop as your statements are rather pointless and childish

[European]

Interesting topic. I myself am not religious but believe people are free to practice whatever they believe. However I do get a kick out of the religious nuts that believe in ridiculous ideas proven false by science (i.e. earth is 5k years old.)

[TrueMacedonian]

Makedonin, still chasing the unicorn?

Pheonix, please provide examples of these fossils that prove evolution, and please provide us with YOUR view for once.

TM, one skeleton! Really! And what was it a skelleton of? How does it provide a "link"? What exactly is it providing a "link" between? What are the details of the skeleton? Any further information? Let us know when they find another ape tooth and claim its a "half-way" between a monkey and a man.
Further, there is nothing that you could show me that I have not already seen. I've been reasearching these issues for years, I don't just trawl through youtube and low-quality sites on a needs basis. If you are really intersted, I can give you the names of scholarly journals and books from both atheists and Christians.

YouTube - ‪Even older than Lucy Missing link skeleton discovered‬‏

Tom I imagine you understand how utterly perplexed I am that you actually take the bible as the literal word of how our world and mankind was created. So then I have to ask something I've asked already on this topic but now to you directly. Can you or any Creationist provide scientific proof outside of Genesis that God created the Heavens and the Earth in 6 days?

[TrueMacedonian]

YouTube - ‪Missing Link Found - Ida, The 47 Million-Year-Old Fossil [May 19 2009] in [HQ]‬‏

[George S.]

SCIENCE : DISCOVERIES
Racing to the 'God Particle'
Lakshmi Sandhana
Physicists from all over the world are racing to prove the existence of a particle that's surmised to be at the heart of the matter. Literally.
Dubbed the "God particle" by Nobel Prize-winning physicist Leon Lederman, the Higgs boson is a controversial particle believed to bestow mass on all other particles.
Scientists are hoping to discover traces of its presence in Fermilab's Tevatron, a 7-mile-long circumference particle accelerator that smashes opposing beams of protons and antiprotons around a circular track, sifting through the debris with two immense detectors called CDF and D0.
Because it plays a key role in the standard model of physics (the theory on which physicists base their whole understanding of matter), proving the existence or absence of the Higgs boson could rock the entire foundation of physics, indicating the existence of particles and forces not yet imagined and paving the way for an entirely new set of laws.
"The Higgs boson is interesting because it is the only reasonable explanation we have for the origin of mass," says Dave Rainwater, a researcher at FermiLab. "Without the Higgs, all fundamental particles would be massless, and the universe would be very different. The weak nuclear forces wouldn't be weak at all, for instance, so the elemental composition of the cosmos would be radically different, stars would shine differently, and we probably wouldn't exist."
The best experimental data on the Higgs boson so far comes from experiments done with the LEP collider at CERN, near Geneva, in 2000. Results indicated that the Higgs particle was too heavy to be detected by the collider and that it probably had a mass of 114 billion electron-volts (GeV). The Tevatron is expected to be able to spot the Higgs in a couple of years, if it is not heavier than 170 GeV to 180 GeV.
If all else fails, the Large Hadron Collider being built at CERN, scheduled to go online in 2007, is designed to guarantee discovery of the Higgs. With a 27-kilometer-circumference tunnel, the LHC will collide protons at seven times the energy levels of the Tevatron.
And the payoff for whoever discovers the Higgs boson? Nothing less than a Nobel Prize. "Its discovery would be one of the crowning achievements of modern science, and validate decades of intense research," says John Conway, a professor at Rutgers University.
"We believe that the Higgs is the key to unlocking the mystery of the elementary particles: the quarks and the leptons. The standard model does not give us the answers to many questions: Why are there three 'generations' of matter particles? Why do they have the masses and electric charges that they do? The Higgs is believed to be related to the mechanism by which the matter particles get their mass, but there is no good theory yet as to why different particles have different masses."
"One thing we expect the Higgs to open up is the question of supersymmetry," says John Womersley, co-spokesman of the D0 experiment at Fermilab. "Supersymmetry is a relationship between the particles of matter and the forces of the universe. Mathematically, it's beautiful. Not one piece of direct experimental data really supports it yet. Finding a Higgs in the place we expect would be a piece of evidence. Not finding it would be a big problem for the advocates of this idea.
"What would shake the foundation of physics much more than finding the Higgs would be a definitive 'ruling it out.' That would upset all of our conceptions about how the universe works. It would make supersymmetry something that, if it applies in the universe, does so only at much higher energies than we can observe. And it would require new forces or new laws to explain masses, in the absence of a Higgs."
The last stage in this three-stage relay race is a linear collider. While the LHC is guaranteed to make a definitive discovery or exclusion, it will not be able to measure the properties of the Higgs precisely. "There is an international consensus among the particle physics community that we would need another accelerator to go one step beyond and resolve the riddles ... nature gives us, (of) which we will have first insights from the Tevatron and the LHC," said Dr. Klaus Desch, a scientist at the University of Hamburg who is working on the European study for such a machine called TESLA.
"The linear collider will enable us to actually verify that the Higgs has exactly the properties we expect. We'll be able to test that it couples to each particle proportional to the mass," added Womersley.

[George S.]

Large Hadron Collider is 'being sabotaged from the future'
By staff writers and wires
From: news.com.au
Octo


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/technology/la...#ixzz1PVD1KoPk
'Time-travel from future to kill atom-smasher'
Hadron Collider to test for 'God particle'
Scientists suggest God could be jinxing it
In pictures: Tour the Large Hadron Collider
In pictures: Tech conspiracy theories
SCIENTISTS claim the giant atom-smashing Large Hadron Collider (LHC) is being jinxed from the future to save the world.
n a bizarre sci-fi theory, Danish physicist Dr Holger Bech Nielsen and Dr Masao Ninomiya from Japan claim the LHC startup has been delayed due to nature trying to prevent it from finding the elusive Higgs boson, or "God particle".
They say their maths proves that nature will "ripple backward through time" to stop the LHC before it can create the God particle, like a time traveller who goes back in time to kill his grandfather.
“One could even almost say that we have a model for God,” Dr Nielsen says in an unpublished essay.
“He rather hates Higgs particles, and attempts to avoid them.”
"While it is a paradox to go back in time and kill your grandfather, physicists agree there is no paradox if you go back in time and save him from being hit by a bus," Dannis Overbye wrote in the New York Times.

"In the case of the Higgs and the collider, it is as if something is going back in time to keep the universe from being hit by a bus."
“It must be our prediction that all Higgs producing machines shall have bad luck,” Dr Nielsen told the New York Times.
European science agency CERN designed the world's biggest particle accelerator to shoot beams around a freezing 27km concrete ring underground near Geneva, smashing atoms together in search of the elusive "God particle" which is believed to have been present at the Big Bang.
The multi-billion-dollar machine, built over almost 20 years, was set to launch in late 2008 but broke down after it overheated during a test run.
The relaunch was pushed back to late 2009 as more parts had to be replaced, and CERN was recently scandalised when a LHC scientist was found to have approached al-Qaeda for work.
The LHC - which features in sci-fi plots such as Dan Brown's Angels and Demons and the new TV show FlashForward - has been dubbed a "doomsday device" with claims it will open black holes.
Last year, Professor Brian Cox of Manchester University told the UK Telegraph that LHC scientists had received threatening emails and phone calls demanding that the experiment be halted.
But Prof Cox, ex-keyboardist for 1990's pop group D:REAM, dismissed the hysteria in rock-star style.
"Anyone who thinks the LHC will destroy the world is a tw--," he said.
The LHC is set to start up again next month.
- with Reuters


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/technology/la...#ixzz1PVCmju2h

[Vangelovski]

TM,

Other than showing us parts of skeletons and what are obviously animal bones, do you have any evidence to actually connect them to humans?

I've already posted some evidence on the 6 day creation. You should read my posts more carefully. What is more relevant however, is science's inability to date anything beyond a few thousand years - which I have posted on quite thoroughly. So when a scientist claims to have discovered bones that are supposedly older than a few thousand years, how exactly did they date them? What method did they use? Currently, there is no way to conclusively date anything beyond a few thousand years, so to claim something is millions or billions of years old, is pure fantasy without the technology to actually support that.