Perceptions of God, Creationism and Evolution

[Zarni]

There was no flood that covered the earth other elements of the story are true but exaggerated

[vojnik]

If you think the flood never existed then you are blind to the fact. Science already proved that there was a huge flood which occured when the natural dam wall where Istanbul is today broke allowing the sea to cover a vast area of land. Whether I believe in the story of the Noah in the Bible, who am I to answer that?

[Onur]

The story of Noah was found on the Sumerian tablets of 2500-3000 BC. So it wasn't the Jews who wrote that story but for the genealogy of nations, it was the Jews who invented that for the first time. There was only Japhet, Ham, Sham and their sons at first but it was the early medieval Jewish and christians who associated nations as their descendants for the first time. I mean, Macedonians has been claimed as the descendants of the Kittim and Greeks for Javan in 300-600 AD for the first time ever.

Wikipedia has the list for that, written in 4-7th century as;

Gomer: Scythians, Serbs, Croats, Armenians, Welsh, Irish, Germans, Turks;
Goth, Gallic, Galicia, Galatia, Gaul, Celt, Kelt, Keltoi, Gimmer, Cimmer, Cimmeria, Crimea...

Magog: Scythians, Slavs, Hungarians, Irish, Turks;
Gog, Magug, Scyth, Scythia, Skythai, Scythia, Skythia, Sclaveni, Sarmatian, Skodiai, Scotti, Alani, Alans, Rus, Onogur, Ugor, Ungar...

Madai: Mitanni, Mannai, Medes, more generally Persians, or even more generally Indo-Aryans;

Javan: Ionians (Greeks);
Jevanim, Iewanim, Iones, Ionians, Ellas, Hellas, Hellenes, Yavan, Yavanas...

Tubal: Tabali, Georgians, Italics, Iberians, Basques;

Meshech: Phrygians, Meskheti, Moschoi, Illyrians;

Tiras: Thracians, Etruscans, Goths, Jutes, Teutons (Germans);
Tiracian, Thracian, Troas, Troy, Trajan, Trojan, Tursha, Tusci, Tuscany, Etruscan...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japhetic

As for the Turks, i know that early medieval christians wrote that we are the descendants of Magog but Jewish ones wrote that we are the descendants of Togarmah, the son of Gomer.


Btw, many archeologists has searched for the Noah`s ark in the mount of Agri (Ararat) in Turkey for a century but no one has found any clue.

[TrueMacedonian]

If you think the flood never existed then you are blind to the fact. Science already proved that there was a huge flood which occured when the natural dam wall where Istanbul is today broke allowing the sea to cover a vast area of land. Whether I believe in the story of the Noah in the Bible, who am I to answer that?

It doesn't take a theologian to answer this simple question because if you honestly believe that Noah filled a boat with 2 of every animal and lived in it with his family, mind you with fecal matter and animals of all types who apparently behaved themselves in a civilized manner, and that Noah and his sons re-populated Earth then I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn if you're interested. After you buy that bridge I'll take you for a ride in the UFO that crashed in my backyard and I'll introduce you to my alien friend spike

[vojnik]

It doesn't take a theologian to answer this simple question because if you honestly believe that Noah filled a boat with 2 of every animal and lived in it with his family, mind you with fecal matter and animals of all types who apparently behaved themselves in a civilized manner, and that Noah and his sons re-populated Earth then I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn if you're interested. After you buy that bridge I'll take you for a ride in the UFO that crashed in my backyard and I'll introduce you to my alien friend spike

In other words you don't believe in a God

[Vangelovski]

TM,

Not wanting to open up another debate on religion that will no doubtedly draw in the usual atheists and their inability to focus on the discussion at hand (not a reference to you), I will state that I think by now you know that I believe the Bible to be absolutely true (including the events surrounding Noah). It may not seem plausable to you, but do you have any conclusive proof that those events did not take place?

[TrueMacedonian]

In other words you don't believe in a God

I don't believe in the fairytales in the old and new testament. But by all means you can go on believing in Noah, the flood, his arc, and the fact that the world is only 5000 years old and that the Macedonians are descendents of Noah's long lost great great great great grandson.

Unfortunately science tells us something positively different. They tell us that the Earth is round, millions of years old, and that humans evolved for an extremely long time to what we are today. In other words the fiction your purporting to believe about some Jew founding two ancient nations is not only impossible to prove but scientifically impossible.

[Vangelovski]

I don't believe in the fairytales in the old and new testament. But by all means you can go on believing in Noah, the flood, his arc, and the fact that the world is only 5000 years old and that the Macedonians are descendents of Noah's long lost great great great great grandson.

Unfortunately science tells us something positively different. They tell us that the Earth is round, millions of years old, and that humans evolved for an extremely long time to what we are today. In other words the fiction your purporting to believe about some Jew founding two ancient nations is not only impossible to prove but scientifically impossible.

Again, do you have any conclusive proof? Science cannot conclusively state anything - it only has hypotheses based on a number of assumptions.

[TrueMacedonian]

TM,

Not wanting to open up another debate on religion that will no doubtedly draw in the usual atheists and their inability to focus on the discussion at hand (not a reference to you), I will state that I think by now you know that I believe the Bible to be absolutely true (including the events surrounding Noah). It may not seem plausable to you, but do you have any conclusive proof that those events did not take place?

Tom are you telling me God invented everything within a few days, took a break, and went back to work? Are you telling me that the universe and the Earth are only 5000 years old? Can you please prove millions of scientists wrong before you ask me to prove a fairytale is a fairytale? Or am I to believe that Adam and Eve really existed and a talking snake tempted them?

[TrueMacedonian]

Again, do you have any conclusive proof? Science cannot conclusively state anything - it only has hypotheses based on a number of assumptions.

And that's what science is Tom. Science is not a simple book made by simple people which was cannonized in the Roman empire (in which some gospels were conveniently left out) and cannot explain why the Old testament had a God that wanted burnt offerings (Leviticus) and made it clear that people with "defects" (people with scars, one eye, one leg, etc) cannot offer his "bread" and the New testament God was all about love and self-sacrafice.

Science cannot explain everything right now but it sure has had made some major achievements in bringing up more questions to ask and more answers to offer instead of a book about a rib, an arc, and some guy being swallowed by a fish and living for three days afterwards.

[vojnik]

TrueMacedonian if your so anti christian why have the crusifix as your avatar doesn't make sense buddy. I also told you these is scientific evidence that proves a great flood occured....

[TrueMacedonian]

TrueMacedonian if your so anti christian why have the crusifix as your avatar doesn't make sense buddy. I also told you these is scientific evidence that proves a great flood occured....

The crucifix and the sun are cultural symbols of the Macedonians through the centuries.
And can you show us this evidence of a great flood?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Putting aside the suggestion that persons lived for several 100 years at a time, according to the geneology of the genesis story, God created Adam and Eve no earlier than about 5500 BC. Is that correct or not?

[Vangelovski]

SoM,

There are variations to that but basically yes.

TM,

At least we agree that Science has nothing more to offer than some theories based on assumptions. The only thing that science has done is consistently change its theories, so what it may accept to today may be disproven tomorrow.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

There was no flood that covered the earth other elements of the story are true but exaggerated

Geez, judging by your avatar (ghost) you may have been there to verify that statement.