Greek citizens are Moving into Macedonia

[Onur]

Onur, When you go to Cheshme can you actually see whats going on in the other Greek Islands on the Aegean Coast?

Yes Prolet, i can see the car headlights and street lights of Chios(Sakiz) island from Cesme shores and from Bodrum, i can see the Kos island from the shore. There are many islands like that ~1000km away from Greece but on the ass of Turkey and like Voltron says, Greeks keep complaining about our ferries and planes flying over those islands.

These islands has been awarded to them by Brits in WW-1, just to keep Turkey out of Aegean and mediterranean sea. Turks took over these islands from Venetians, not even from Byzantines. These islands held by Turks or Latins as early as 11-12th century and then Ottoman Empire took all of them in 15-16th century. So, none of these islands was belonged to Greeks at least for 1000 years. They are perfectly aware of this unfairness, so thats why Papandreu recently said that they wake up every morning by thinking whether Turkey took over the islands overnight or not.

Putting all that aside i really think its a shame that some people still think like this from the dark ages, surly by now we can start respecting each other;s countries,cultures and traditions. I think Macedonia and Turkey are good examples of this because we both respect each other in many different ways and the fact that we are different in some ways i think is positive for people to learn something form each other, especially the historical events that occurred during the Ottoman Empire.

Thats something very difficult to do with them cuz they live in the past and their church, politicians thinks that this is the main cause which keeps Greek spirit alive.

Everyone should be aware of his own people`s past but not to live with it today, then everything is possible. Look at western Europe, they lived much horrible things than us, remember that Germans killed about million French in a week 65 years ago but they live with it today.

[Prolet]

The so-called Greek islands awarded to you by British are on our ass, about 2 miles away from our shores. I can even see the car lights in those islands when i go to the beaches in aegean and mediterranean side. So, no matter whoever in charge of Turkey, our policy of Aegean sea WILL NOT change. Your nautical borders in there finishes in 6 miles and WILL NEVER be 12 miles, reaching our shores. So, quit complaining about our F-16s and better think about your country`s bankrupt situation.

Onur, When you go to Cheshme can you actually see whats going on in the other Greek Islands on the Aegean Coast?

Putting all that aside i really think its a shame that some people still think like this from the dark ages, surly by now we can start respecting each other;s countries,cultures and traditions. I think Macedonia and Turkey are good examples of this because we both respect each other in many different ways and the fact that we are different in some ways i think is positive for people to learn something form each other, especially the historical events that occurred during the Ottoman Empire.

[fatso]

Another clue Voltron is that someone with no connection to Macedonia is even interested on being on a Macedonian forum. I find most southern Greeks could not care less. Northern Greeks tend to have more skeletons in their closet and come here to prove their ancestry to themselves.

Your spot on Risto.

[Onur]

Voltron, i know that there is no problem between ordinary people of Greece and Turkey. Only the partly assimilated diaspora Greeks are bound to hate from us cuz they feel like they are more Greek as much as they hate from Turks, Macedonians etc.

The source of the problem is your church and politics and these ordinary Greeks are probably too naive and easy to fool by church and politicians. This is also pretty obvious since you Greeks either ruled by Karamanlis or Papandreu family. Greece is like the middle-eastern emirates where sons replaces fathers. Already, the core and the policy of church never changes. They all hate from Albanians, Bulgarians, Turks, Macedonians and pretty much everybody who is not Greek. Read the recent comments of Cypriot archbishop about immigrants and see how racist they are. It`s same for Greece`s church. They were giving money to Kurdish PKK terrorists in training camps in Greece few years ago.


It`s obvious for everyone that our army officials doesn't like Erdogan and Erdogan doesn't like them either. Our current PM is hated by close to half of Turkey including myself. We dont want him and his islamic headed party members and we will try to get rid of him in next elections cuz we dont wanna be like Greece where religious people involves in politics. We are secular country for 80+ years and we will stay like that. This is about Turkey`s internal politics and there is absolutely no relation with Greece. The so-called Greek islands awarded to you by British are on our ass, about 2 miles away from our shores. I can even see the car lights in those islands when i go to the beaches in aegean and mediterranean side. So, no matter whoever in charge of Turkey, our policy of Aegean sea WILL NOT change. Your nautical borders in there finishes in 6 miles and WILL NEVER be 12 miles, reaching our shores. So, quit complaining about our F-16s and better think about your country`s bankrupt situation.

[George S.]

i've been reminded that the so called greek citizens could be macedonians.Hey vol turn it up.

[Phoenix]

I wouldnt say they couldnt care less, but youre right. They dont really follow the politics involved in it. In all fairness though, Most Greeks have other problems to deal with and the Macedonian issue is not the first one that bothers them. That doesnt mean of course that some Greeks regardless of where they come from cant take interest in this.

Hey Vol, how do you say spolaj ti in greek...?

[Vicki]

Onur, you should visit The Greek Turkish Forum

http://greekturkish.18.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=10586

[Voltron]

Another clue Voltron is that someone with no connection to Macedonia is even interested on being on a Macedonian forum. I find most southern Greeks could not care less. Northern Greeks tend to have more skeletons in their closet and come here to prove their ancestry to themselves.

I wouldnt say they couldnt care less, but youre right. They dont really follow the politics involved in it. In all fairness though, Most Greeks have other problems to deal with and the Macedonian issue is not the first one that bothers them. That doesnt mean of course that some Greeks regardless of where they come from cant take interest in this.

[Risto the Great]

Another clue Voltron is that someone with no connection to Macedonia is even interested on being on a Macedonian forum. I find most southern Greeks could not care less. Northern Greeks tend to have more skeletons in their closet and come here to prove their ancestry to themselves.

[Voltron]

Voltron, you are scrambling your IP to be on this forum if your IP is not Greek and you live in Greece.

We have many Greeks pretending to be other people on this forum. Usually they come from some Macedonian heartland and they tell us how they have proven Greek ancestry for millenniums. Some use a female name because it makes them appear more approachable. All par for the course unfortunately.

Some like JohnMKD genuinely surprise us and begin to question aspects of their lives and ancestry in a more open fashion.

Risto, I can understand, and Im sure its not limited to just this forum. But give it a benefit of the doubt. This is not the case for me.

[Voltron]

Thats what i hate about Greeks most.

You live with stereotypes and you must be really stupid cuz your politicians always play with the anti-Turkish, anti-Macedonia etc. cards in the elections and you Greeks always take the bait.

Greek church and politicians(there aren't many of them anyway) are responsible for all of these problems. Your church is racist and feeds everyone with hate toward all your neighbors, whether it`s in US for diaspora, Cyprus or Greece. Your politicians are just puppets of EU and they always uses anti-Turk or Macedonia rhetoric to get your votes and this trick never fails for them since you all indoctrinated to hate from us, nothing else.


Let me tell you why people in Turkey didn't treat you bad. It`s because there is no anti-Greek policies nor an indoctrination here. People see Greeks as their neighbors and the most similar society to their own. Thats the opinion of majority here except few people who really hates from Greeks with a good reason like Cretan immigrants.

So, the situation is the exact opposite of Greece but we could easily do the same here, indoctrinate 75 million people to hate from you since we also got more than enough history and material to do that but we didn't and we wont cuz it brings nothing. It didn't bring anything to you either. As you can see, your country didn't gain shit with anti-Turk, anti-Macedonia policies. You are bankrupt because of buying 15 billion worth of French, German military equipment every year and your future depends on the will of German taxpayers now.

All this BS wont change tough, `till you stop doing this indoctrination and rhetoric of hate. I don't think this will happen anytime soon either, since neither Greek church nor your politicians will never allow that.

Onur, your wrong. When I first moved to Greece in '99 the Greeks had no problem with you guys. It was me telling them that they were insane to even think of having you guys as " friends ". The warming of the relations first took hold in Greece then expanded to the Diaspora. Although there has been cases in Germany for example where diaspora Greeks and Turks defended each other when attacked by Neo Nazi's. I dont rember the Church or any Politician telling us to hate you guys. Thats just me though.

As far as military spendings. We have to spend since your military has such a ego trip as to fly armed over Greek islands. If our church preaches hate than your military does the same. At least our church doesnt have state of the art F-16's Block 52 flying around. And its pathetic that your PM cant even control the military.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=wikileaks-show-erdogan8217s-inability-to-control-military8217s-aegean-flights-2011-01-25

[julie]

If Voltron is scrambling his IP address, by that act of dishonesty, he has something to hide. I have a suspicion Voltron is reincarnate of a former banned tool here.

[Onur]

We have Vlachs in Macedonia.
Are they Greeks as well?
Depends on how you define Greek I suppose.

RTG, most funniest story about Vlachs belongs to the ones called Sarakatsani(Karakachan).

You know, they are just a nomadic Vlach tribe spread to all over Balkans and Thrace. Their women traditionally wears black headscarves and since they are nomads, probably thats why Turks called them as "Kara-kaçan" but the ones in Greece thinks themselves as the most purest and the true descendants of ancient Hellenes. The fabricated story was same in all of the articles. Supposedly these Karakachans couldn't live under Ottoman regime and they decided to became nomads to hide from Turks and because of that, they preserved their "sacred" Hellenic blood `till today by never intermarrying with others unlike other Greeks in Greece!!! I`ve read numerous articles like that with amusement written by Greeks all over the web(including wikipedia article).

The thing is, these Karakachans currently lives in Macedonia, Bulgaria and Turkey too and the ones in Greece consider them as their lost and assimilated brothers . You know most famous Bulgarian Karakachan is the leader of the Bulgarian nationalist/racist party called VMRO. Probably he thinks himself as the true Bulgar or somethin, dunno There are so many Karakachan from Thrace, Turkey too and they know that they are Vlachs. You can search facebook with the tag "Karakaçan" and i did once b4, then i saw 100s of people from Turkey and a facebook group for all Karakachans from Turkey. Funny thing is, there was some posts in the group from Greek Karakachans, calling all Turkish Karakachans to return to "Hellenic" roots, LOL

Funny but in ironic way. They are good example for observing the results of 20th century Hellenism tough.

[Phoenix]

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;87411]
Some use a female name because it makes them appear more approachable. All par for the course unfortunately.
[\QUOTE]

...I wonder if this is Victoria's secret

[Risto the Great]

I did not understand what you said John. Are you refuting Vlachs as Greeks ? You ok man ?

We have Vlachs in Macedonia.
Are they Greeks as well?
Depends on how you define Greek I suppose.