Albanianization in Macedonia

[Epirot]

epirot what you claim you respect us for what do you respect us?

George,

Your insults lessen my interest to reply toward your comments. I've said repeatedly that Albanians respect stand on the fact they recognize Macedonia's sovereignty. What else do you expect from them? To kneel to you? They have been integrated into Macedonia's institutions. End of the story.

P.S: Don't expect more replies from me because you've ruined the basis of a civilized dialogue!

[George S.]

In all my time from shiptars that have ever come on this forum you take the cake for stupidity.
Didnt the albanians just insult us macedonians by building places of rememberance for the uck.Come on don't bs to me .Also you are telling me you respect me.How about all the killings that have done to civilians.Also albanians coming out as the victim.Spare me the bs.This is all about respect & recociliation??
Do you know the story that albanians beleive in a greater albania & linking with kosovo.
What about respect for one's flag why are we flying your double headed eagle all the time.Why are we wanting seperatist language,special rights & priveleges way above the ordinary citizens.Wanting seperate passports in albanian.Also not wanting to learn macedonian at all only shiptar at school.That is real respect eh,you are a fucking shiptar liar.Your brain is on holiday when you say that the shiptars are nothing more than example of respect.The last thing anyone that has not shown is respect or actually a lot of respect.Your pensioner ali ahmeti the terrorist ,pensioner can't be bothered speaking macedonian because he respects us so much he has an intrepreter.
Epirot by now the whole forum should have turned on you.You should read the whole thread & you will see that over time how macedonia's sovereignity has been ripped to shreads by the disrespectfull shiptars who do not beleive in a macedonian homeland.The shiptars like you are deceving themselves with claims like you show respect i have nothing but dislike & hate for shiptars who think like you.If albania is so good for you why don't you all go back to it.Also since when minorities have rights way above the normal citizens.If it was upto me i would boot the lot of you out.But first you have shown disrespect by insulting us you have to booted from this forum.
Sometimes shiptars think they are so superier & eloquent that they forget they have inferiority complexexes.You have a habit of denial of reality.THat's why you can't have civil discussion as you are on insult mode.

[Niko777]

Today in Skopje, instead of the illegal Albanian names being removed from the schools, the school authorities took it up a notch and destroyed the bust of Macedonian writer Rajko Zhinzifov in the school yard. I guess we can expect a new statue of the Albanian terrorist whose name is written on the school signage.

[Niko777]

Also in the news today, Debar's Macedonian church was robbed and vandalized. The Albanians managed to steal several icons, the oldest one dating from 1740.

[makedonche]

Also in the news today, Debar's Macedonian church was robbed and vandalized. The Albanians managed to steal several icons, the oldest one dating from 1740.

Niko77
Are there any police in Macedonia?..........better still are there any Macedonians in Macedonia?

[Niko777]

Niko77
Are there any police in Macedonia?..........better still are there any Macedonians in Macedonia?

Not sure about the police.

As for Macedonians.... they will spend countless hours arguing in DPMNE vs SDSM debates, they will go out in the streets protesting against each other for their political parties. Yet you will never see a Macedonian argue with an Albanian, or protest against the atrocities they are committing. Albanians have been left to do what ever they want.

It doesn't matter who is in power, Gruevski or Crvenkovski, it's the Albanians who are running the country.

But don't worry, our politicians will keep Macedonians distracted with their stupid games. Gruevski will build a statue of a warrior on horse, while the opposition will call for name changes for Greece. Meanwhile our brilliant historians and scientists are too busy linking the Macedonian language to the people of 25,000 BC. And while Macedonians are being distracted with all this BS, the Albanians were able to quietly take over the country... now they have taken over our children's schools!!!

So what does the government do in its latest attempt to distract everyone? Organize a huge concert in Skopje (for September 8) where half of the singers were from Serbia btw. And you know what, it worked. 60,000 Macedonians gathered to celebrate, you can all see the videos on Youtube. Yet when the 5 Macedonians were massacred by the Albanians, they couldn't get a crowd of 60 to come out and protest.

[Vangelovski]

Epirot,

No one has any problems with civil equality, but that is not what is happening in Macedonia. Under the Framework Agreement, Albanians have been provided with special privileges, not rights. For example, under the Framework Agreement's Badinter principle (which is now a constitutional provision), Albanian parliamentarians are able to veto parliamentary decisions. This effectively provides individual Albanians with a greater vote than any other individual in Macedonia. In fact, if Albanians are 25 per cent of the population, their collective vote is worth more than the other 75 per cent. On an individual level, this would equate to one Albanian vote being worth more than three Macedonian votes.

This is not civil equality. This is a racist ideology of Albanian superiority and a claim to the Macedonian state.

[Risto the Great]

Epirot has not replied to me, nor will he reply to you Vangelovski I suspect.
It is an Albanian tradition to deny the obvious about this issue.

[makedonche]

Not sure about the police.

As for Macedonians.... they will spend countless hours arguing in DPMNE vs SDSM debates, they will go out in the streets protesting against each other for their political parties. Yet you will never see a Macedonian argue with an Albanian, or protest against the atrocities they are committing. Albanians have been left to do what ever they want.

It doesn't matter who is in power, Gruevski or Crvenkovski, it's the Albanians who are running the country.

But don't worry, our politicians will keep Macedonians distracted with their stupid games. Gruevski will build a statue of a warrior on horse, while the opposition will call for name changes for Greece. Meanwhile our brilliant historians and scientists are too busy linking the Macedonian language to the people of 25,000 BC. And while Macedonians are being distracted with all this BS, the Albanians were able to quietly take over the country... now they have taken over our children's schools!!!

So what does the government do in its latest attempt to distract everyone? Organize a huge concert in Skopje (for September 8) where half of the singers were from Serbia btw. And you know what, it worked. 60,000 Macedonians gathered to celebrate, you can all see the videos on Youtube. Yet when the 5 Macedonians were massacred by the Albanians, they couldn't get a crowd of 60 to come out and protest.

Niko77
Thanks for that candid assesment, I can't help but agree with you. I suppose deep in my heart of hearts I was expecting a miracle, where a Macedonian or a collection of Macedonians could also see what you have described and actually take some steps towards reversing the process........any steps! I fear the process is beyond reversal, given Macedonians would be starting so far behind the starting line.....but it would have been comforting knowing somebody actually gave a shit and was prepared to do something about it......I live in hope, for reality is unacceptable.

[makedonche]

RTG

It is an Albanian tradition to deny the obvious about this issue.

A common trait share by the platesmashing southerners........although they are probably of the same genome anyway!

[George S.]

Epirot is good at cenying & running away from the truth despite what he says about albanian respect for us macedonians.It has really diminished completely or there never was any in the first place." On an individual level, this would equate to one Albanian vote being worth more than three Macedonian votes."This is totally true macedonia has given the albanians far more freedom & priveleges than they desrve.They have been spoiled rotten.Our so called politicians are to blame for giving yhem far too many priveleges that they forgot about their fellow citizens.What about a homeland for the macedonians or is that too much to ask.What happened to the notion Macedonia for the macedonians as stated by william gladstone in the Britsh Parliament more than 100 years ago.

[Epirot]

Epirot,

No one has any problems with civil equality, but that is not what is happening in Macedonia. Under the Framework Agreement, Albanians have been provided with special privileges, not rights. For example, under the Framework Agreement's Badinter principle (which is now a constitutional provision), Albanian parliamentarians are able to veto parliamentary decisions. .

That's your perception! Under the Framework Agreement, Albanians earned some more rights (which previously have been denied) in conform with civil equality. Had the Albanians been privileged from that Agreement, they would already have their own parliament, security forces, budget, etc like the Serbs have in B & H. You keep complaining about that Framework, but you seem to forget that due to it was provided Macedonia's sovereignty. I firmly stand to my previous statement that no decision (of national interest) has been blocked by the Albanian veto.

This is not civil equality. This is a racist ideology of Albanian superiority and a claim to the Macedonian state.

That has nothing to do with a racist ideology nor superiority. The problem stand that a certain Macedonians oppose the very fact that Macedonia should be perceived as a national-state of all ethnicities living there. Even the Constitution of 1971 did not postulate Macedonia as national-state of Macedonia, but of all its constituent ethnicitities (like Albanians, Turks, etc). The constitution of 1991 (which affirmed Macedonia as a national-state of Macedonia by excluding others) was condemned with failure because it went against the nature of Macedonia (being a multi-ethnic country).

Albanians do not exceed their rights provided by the constitution of 2001. Macedonian parliament is still dominated by the Macedonians (of 120 seats, Albanians have 29 that is 34%). Macedonian government is still prevalently Macedonian. The same goes even for army and police forces.

P.S: This is my answer even to Risto...

[George S.]

Epirot your albanian side has said if the slavo macedonian govt albanians refer to macedonians as slavodoesn't make a swift decision to join nato & eu.Then the albanians will make it for themThat was athreat on national television.The albanian s are for the name change regardless & have let it be known they are acting for their own interest rather than the slavo macedonian one.
So can you show me where albanians are supporting macedonians.Also after the 2001 war the albanians have thretened macedonians that they would be back at the slightest provocation.Do you think they are going to sit back & wait all this time for macedonia to be accepted into nato or eu.The albanians only care for themselves & only need to support for the sake ofitself interest.
You mentioned other rights of interst might be your own budgetary, your own military etc what other rights could you possibly want that you don't have.I rember there was one of asking for your own passports.So epirote you don't beleive the macedonians should have a homeland called macedonia & you will stand in it's way.Also as alabanians do you think your behaviour & actions are exemplarrary of a minority.

[makgerman]

The credibility of the article is questionable since it has been written by a Serbian propagandist, Carl Savich.

Epirot, isn't it interesting how you question the credibility of articles showing the crimes committed by the Albanian SS Skenderbergs, yet at the same time you have used invalid articles to claim that the Aegean Macedonians followed the Nazi ideology. Hypocrisy at its best.

You may have your own opinion of Carl Savich, but any Albanian who doesn't admit that the Albanian SS Skanderberg Division followed the Nazi Ideology in order to create a Greater Albania at any cost falls in the Albanian propagandist league to me.

Your own KLA has stated that the Kosovar people were liberated by the Germans and all Albanian territories such as Kosovo, western Macedonia and border regions under Montenegro, were re-united into "Albania proper". Now we all know that the Nazis wouldn't have done that unless they received something in return which is where the SS Skanderber came into the picture.

I'll use your method and say that I have read many articles (and seen many Youtube videos) that the fascist Albanians admired the Nazis for putting the Map of Greater Albania in front of them. During the war, the Albanian president demanded from the Kosovo SS Skenderbergs to kill the Serbs and together with the help of the Italian army to send the rest to concentration camps in Albania. The Skenderbers started the killings of innocent civillians but the Italians weren't happy with that and at times had to shoot against the Albanians to stop them from further massacres.

At the same time you had the Albanians fascists worshiping Mussolini in Albania with the same Greater Albanian plan. Together with the Italians, they attacked Western Macedonia and Greece. They had the Balisti fighting against the partisans in Egejska Macedonia also killing many Macedonians like my oldest uncle and others from his village.

The Albanian strategy of getting rid of all of the non-Albanians and to fully Albanize the regions into becoming part of Greater Albania is coming back to haunt Macedonia today. The Albanians have been abusing the rights given to them since the agreement. There is a big difference from working for the better of Macedonia and all of it's citizens and another to work to destroy it.

It is evident by many posts on this thread that the Albanian parties have a common strategy in Albanizing the western part of Macedonia and to later on split it into a federation. This in turn will allow the Albanian part to secede and become a part of Greater Albania.

The Macedonian governments have failed us by not tackling this problem. The Macedonians over there seem to be too blind to see, but it will come and haunt us in the future when it will be too late.

[Risto the Great]

Albanians do not exceed their rights provided by the constitution of 2001. Macedonian parliament is still dominated by the Macedonians (of 120 seats, Albanians have 29 that is 34%). Macedonian government is still prevalently Macedonian. The same goes even for army and police forces.

Epirot, ethnic Albanians could have 1 seat in Parliament and still overturn all votes. Admit it, it is a rubbish system that favours the ethnic Albanians. Go on admit their position of superiority. You can do it. Nobody is reading this.

I firmly stand to my previous statement that no decision (of national interest) has been blocked by the Albanian veto.

No decision of national interest has been made since 2001. Can you tell me why Epirot?