Albanianization in Macedonia

[Epirot]

You have to accept the fact that the Aegean Macedonians did not fight with the Nazis nor did they use the Nazi ideology as your fellow Albanians did. Your claim is not only false but is also insulting.

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That's utter hogwash. You got no clue what is Nazi ideology. Albanians were never followers of such ideology. Had they been pro-Nazi's, why Albania was ranked among anti-fascist countries? Germans could recruit only a small part of Albanians. Their generals points out the fact that pro-German organizations were deserted constantly by the Albanians.

Here is what Serbian chetnik paramilitaries (with the support of Germans) aimed:

The struggle for the liberty of our whole nation under the scepter of His Majesty King Peter II;

the creation of a Great Yugoslavia and within it of a Great Serbia which is to be ethnically pure and is to include Serbia [meaning also Vardar Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Srijem, the Banat, and Bačka];

the struggle for the inclusion into Yugoslavia of all still unliberated Slovene territories under the Italians and Germans (Trieste, Gorizia, Istria, and Carinthia) as well as Bulgaria, and northern Albania with Scutari;

the cleansing of the state territory of all national minorities and a-national elements [i.e. the Partisans and their supporters];

the creation of contiguous frontiers between Serbia and Montenegro, as well as between Serbia and Slovenia by cleansing the Muslim population from Sandžak and the Muslim and Croat populations from Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Just find a single document that would indicate that Albanians had such goals? Most of Albanian nationalists (I am referring to non-Partizans) were engaged in struggles against chetnik incursions.

[Epirot]

Why should a minority have the right to veto political decisions of national interest? If that does not place the ethnic Albanians in a position of superiority then explain what it is.

Hmm, what political decisions of national interest are blocked because of the Albanian veto? Did the Albanians vote against constitutional name of Republic? Did the Albanians support Greek solutions about that name? Did the Albanians prevent Macedonia from entering in EU?

Risto, it's becoming meaningless to blame Albanians for everything negative in Macedonia! Such a mentality is going to get absolutely nowhere. Most of problems concerning Macedonia have nothing to do with ethnicity. Its problems consist on the fact that a bunch of politicians (no matter what's their ethnicity) are the wealthiest persons in country, while most of people have low standards of living. This hurts both Macedonians and Albanians living in Macedonia. VMRO-DPMNE has employed only its servants, BDI has employed its servants too. So the political parties that are in coalition do absolutely nothing for people. This is what you should be worried about.

[George S.]

Epirot you should have been banned on this forum a long time ago for your iinsulting & deragotary remarks.The sad fact is the albanians do not respect us macedonians.You don't by coming on this forum you are constantly insulting us.Your people were thrown out after the 2nd world war 2 by enver roger.If you don't know yor history then check it out.You are dead wrong you kind is asking for more & more priveleges above what a normal citizen gets.
In other words you are asking for a country within a country.You want rights of secession.
Also you have not been behaving like real ctizen killing macedonian citizens.Insulting macedonians by building memorials of terrorists,& change of name toponyms supposedly mean't to reconcile us.what a joke.

[George S.]

Epirot in your answer to rtg you state the ethnic Albanians are superior.What your minister as a terrorist in 2001 & on the black list is far more superior in calling to shoot civilian macedonians & also to commit attrocities on military personnel.Spare me your crap why should macedonia bend down to vermin & morons like you.Since when you are managing our country so well that you could say you are special breed for the job.In all the institutions albanians are so uncooperative & insult macedonian citizens all the time.Why because they still resent the fact they have to cooperate in some way.But they refuse to cooperate all the time.Not limited to the albanian citizenry but to their political officials.

[George S.]

Hmm, what political decisions of national interest are blocked because of the Albanian veto? Did the Albanians vote against constitutional name of Republic? Did the Albanians support Greek solutions about that name? Did the Albanians prevent Macedonia from entering in EU?

It's a fact the albanians have stated if there is no decision to the name change they are going to start problems for macedonia.The albanians want the name of the country to change.They have given an ultimatum & its' not supporting the govt it's unless you do as your told we will not wait we will act in our best interest not your's.The albanians want integration with europe.THe albanians ultimately want secession rights & veentual linkup with kosovo for a greater albania.

[George S.]

So albanians prevent macedonians from entering the eu yes they do by their constant unsatisfied bitching & complaining they have madeit known they will not get their support unless it meets their approval.You know full well the albanians want it all their way & not to be dictated by the macedonian govt.They are in effect holding the govt as hostage.

[Epirot]

GS,

You cannot handle the truth! I did not make any racist remark in my posts. The problem is your inability to grasp the meaning of the comments. I never said that Albanians are of special breed, so they deserve the highest rank on administrate. You're intentionally twisting my posts. I was clearly saying that both VMRO & BDI employ their servants. That's not meritocracy! Most of people are deprived from jobs only because they are not members of the above political parties. Do you get my point now? Or am I making derogatory statements?

You keep saying that Albanians do not respect Macedonia's sovereignty, while the reality is quite different from your blatant claims.

[makgerman]

hat's utter hogwash. You got no clue what is Nazi ideology. Albanians were never followers of such ideology. Had they been pro-Nazi's, why Albania was ranked among anti-fascist countries? Germans could recruit only a small part of Albanians. Their generals points out the fact that pro-German organizations were deserted constantly by the Albanians.

And you do?

What is wrong in admitting that the fascist Albanians fought with the Italians and spread terror on the Christian population mainly aiming at making Kosovo, Tetovo, Gostivar, Epirus, Montenegro part of the Albanian Kingdom?

Now it is the same thing your fellow Albanians are aiming for right at this very moment.

[Epirot]

What is wrong in admitting that the fascist Albanians fought with the Italians

As I said, there were a few Albanians who followed fascist Italians. Those who sided with them did so because this was the only way to throw off the Serbian yoke. The fact that Albanians had no disposition towards fascism is exemplified by the fact that even those Albanian (who had previously collaborated) fought against Italians on 1943. Owen Pearson's in his book "Albania in the Twentieth Century, A History" stated that Balli Kombetar & partizans liberated the city of Debar and Struge.

...spread terror on the Christian population

If I were you I'd not make such a statement with no proof to back it up.

Epirus...part of the Albanian Kingdom?

Are you suggesting that Epirus has been Greek at that time? Needless to say, this region was conquered by Greece on 1313. Most of it was profoundly Albanian until General Zerva embarked an ethnic cleansing of Albanians (Chams) from their native lands. They had no different fate from Aegean Macedonians. Prior to WWII, Chams (especially Muslim ones) were forced to emigrate either in Albania and Turkey. There was no school in Albanian, even their language was forbidden in public. So most of them (I am referring to Chams) naturally wanted to integrate themselves in a state of their own (in that case, Albania).

[George S.]

epirot you are a fucking hypocrit that should be banned from this forum.The fact is albanians had never had it so good.Look at the amnesty your terorists got for harming innocent civilians & non combatant military personnel.You bite the hand that feed you.You started the 2001 war.

[George S.]

macedonians should not be pandering to the minorities like your case you think that it's open slather you can just walk in & take over.I still don't think you respect us your explanations are not good enough stop your bs & face reality.You don't respect us you want your own way.

[Risto the Great]

Hmm, what political decisions of national interest are blocked because of the Albanian veto? Did the Albanians vote against constitutional name of Republic? Did the Albanians support Greek solutions about that name? Did the Albanians prevent Macedonia from entering in EU?

Risto, it's becoming meaningless to blame Albanians for everything negative in Macedonia! Such a mentality is going to get absolutely nowhere. Most of problems concerning Macedonia have nothing to do with ethnicity. Its problems consist on the fact that a bunch of politicians (no matter what's their ethnicity) are the wealthiest persons in country, while most of people have low standards of living. This hurts both Macedonians and Albanians living in Macedonia. VMRO-DPMNE has employed only its servants, BDI has employed its servants too. So the political parties that are in coalition do absolutely nothing for people. This is what you should be worried about.

No, I blame Macedonians for their inability to act like a majority should for their homeland.

But you skirted around the issue I identified which clearly places the ethnic Albanians in a position of superiority. No decisions of national interest for Macedonia have been able to be put through unless they are of equal or singular benefit to ethnic Albanians. Play around with your words as much as you want but this is the reality. Would you give a minority anywhere in the world this kind of "superiority"?

Great excuses and avoidance of the underlying issue.

[makgerman]

If I were you I'd not make such a statement with no proof to back it up.

Keep on playing the innocent game and continuous act of denial.

The Skenderbey SS Division did exactly that. Part of the article includes:

The Skanderbeg division engaged in a policy of ethnic cleansing and genocide against the Serbian Orthodox Christian populations of the regions under occupation by the division in Kosovo Metohija, Montenegro, and southern Serbia. Balkan Historian Robert Lee Wolff, in the "Balkans in Our time", described the genocide committed against Kosovo Serbs by the Shqiptar 21st Waffen Gebirgs Division der SS Skenderbeg as follows:

In the regions annexed by the Albanians, their so-called Skanderbeg division, made up of members of the Albanian minority in Yugoslavia, massacred Serbs with impunity.

Historian L.H. Stavrianos, in "The Balkan Since 1453", described the genocide committed against Orthodox Serbs by the Shqiptar Skanderbeg Division in these terms: Yugoslav Albanians, organized in their fascist Skanderbeg Division, conducted an indiscriminate massacre of Serbians.

The Skanderbeg Division played a role in the Holocaust, the genocide if European Jewry, by rounding up scores of Kosovo Jews in a group roughly 500 persons deemed enemies of the Third Reich when the division occupied Prizren in Kosovo Metohija. The division sought to create ethnically pure Kosovo, ethnically cleansed of Orthodox Serbs, Jews and Gypsies the untermenschen (subhuman), who were targeted for extermination.

The Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal declared the Shutzstaffel or SS criminal organization and every individual member of SS was found to Be a war criminal guilty of "planning and carrying out crimes against humanity". The Shqiptar Kosovars in the 21st Waffen Gebirgs Division "Skanderbeg" committed war crimes and genocide against the Orthodox Serbian population of Kosovo. The Shqiptar planed and carried out crimes against humanity in Kosovo. Orthodox Serbians of Kosovo were the victims of ethnic cleansing and genocide. This genocide would contribute in the Shqiptar goal and policy to create an ethnically pure, Shqiptar Kosovo, in an attempt to create a greater Shqiperia or greater Albania. Following World war II, the Yugoslav Communist dictatorship allowed the policy of ethnic cleansing and genocide against the Orthodox Serbs to continue, and indeed, gave greater impetus and legitimacy to the policy.

Source:

http://www.kosovo.net/skenderbeyss.html

[George S.]

epirot what you claim you respect us for what do you respect us?

[Epirot]

Keep on playing the innocent game and continuous act of denial.

The credibility of the article is questionable since it has been written by a Serbian propagandist, Carl Savich:

Carl Kosta Savich (Serbian Cyrillic: Карл Коста Савић) is a Serbian-American historian, academic and writer. He received his B.A. in Political Science from the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, Michigan and has an M.A. in History from Oakland University in Rochester, Michigan and a J.D. in Law from the University of Baltimore School of Law in Baltimore, Maryland. He also has a Master of Arts Degree in Teaching (MAT) from Oakland University in Rochester, Michigan.

His articles are not worthy of citing since he always distort facts as to show Serbs as blameless during WWII. He never mention the wide collaboration of Serbs with the Nazis. Nor he mention the genocidal actions committed by Drazha Mihajlovich, the symbol of Serbian nationalists. Instead he should pay more attention to the fate of thousands Jews in Serbia who were either killed or deported.

Emanuel Schäfer, Chief of the German police and Gestapo in Serbia, could boast as soon as 1942 that:

"Belgrade - the only larger European city which has been cleansed of Jews, has become judenfrei."

Similarly Harald Turner of the SS, stated in 1942 that:

"Serbia is the only country in which the Jewish question and the Gypsy question has been solved."[11]

By the time Serbia and Yugoslavia were liberated in 1944, most of the Serbian Jewry had been murdered. Of the 82,500 Jews of Yugoslavia alive in 1941, only 14,000 (17%) survived the Holocaust.[1] Of the Serbian Jewish population of 16,000, the Nazis and their Croatian Fascist allies murdered approximately 14,500

His articles reeks of anti-Albanian sentiments. As such, he is not worthy to be cited. The fact that he ignores the Serbian crimes upon non-serbs during WWII speaks volume about his "reliability".