Albanianization in Macedonia

[Bratot]

Rogi,

being unaware of any of my "plans" how do you know what you are talking about?

It is you convincing me that my "plan" is unrealistic, just because I don't think it's a wise idea to elaborate it on a public forum that most probably is monitored?

[julie]

The problem with the current mind set, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy, and to play the victim, without taking ownership for ones own destiny and effecting the change necessary to achieve an appropriate outcome.
If the current mind set is one whereby they are living in denial, in apathy where they really dont give a shit, or playing the victim, having a sedentary approach waiting for the saviour, this will not happen
There needs to be a moral revolution, one where the individuals collectively "get it"
I am afraid they are stuck in their slumber and will awake to find themselves the servants of the shiptari, who are not using divisive tactics, but gaining support.
The mind set of the victim, is one where they lay blame on others, or other situations for their circumstance, and mostly, these circumstances have been perpetuated by their inaction. Hence, the diaspora are the scapegoat, the problem, and shift all responsibility for their own freedom , onto a group, or individuals that cannot effect a change because they are not there.
Its tiresome waiting for sleeping beauty to be awakened and saved by their prince.
And RoM sees the EU as the saviour, and will have all the riches of the universe if they sell their souls to that devil (name, identity)
Its annoying reading protiv propoganda doing analysis of the diaspora, he too , is shifting as a victim , blame, and its almost comical (if my identity and name was not at stake) seeing RoM act like a spoilt petulant child with the softly, slowly approach, in case their is another dummy spit

[Boge]

Rogi,

being unaware of any of my "plans" how do you know what you are talking about?

It is you convincing me that my "plan" is unrealistic, just because I don't think it's a wise idea to elaborate it on a public forum that most probably is monitored?

Don't worry about Rogi mate, all of his acquaintances call him Flip Flop, ain't that right Rogi. One day UMD next day AMHRC then followed by a vladika lackey boy. Your dad is a Vladika man aint he?

[julie]

Boge you are off topic mate

[Boge]

Boge you are off topic mate

I disagree, it is related with the problem with the current mindset.

[Rogi]

I don't know Boge, I haven't heard that suggestion from any of my acquaintances. I like to think that's not the case. Perhaps you see it that way, because you see it in terms of competing interests, though the way I see it, I aim to work for and in accordance with the Macedonian Cause. Feel free to offer me some more insights into your thought processes though.

Most people, I believe, understand that people who volunteer their time and effort, like to ensure it's put to good use and for the right reasons.

I'll correct you on the "vladika lackey boy" bit though, I don't have any real connection there at all, in fact I never have. I think you're sources might have been confused.

As for my father, perhaps you should ask him instead? I think you might find that when he was involved in community affairs it was at a time when our community needed help to move away from the Yugoslav fold (and that is something that is very much related to the discussion on changing a collective mindset) and you'll find that in working to achieve that, he had excellent relations with every group in our community and was opposed to our disunity. I am of course referring to the type of disunity that you seem to be encouraging, for whatever purpose.

That is not unlike my views and I think most others on the forum.

In any case, your post was quite off topic. Feel free to send me a private message if you have any questions, I can see you've been given some incorrect information.

[Risto the Great]

Don't worry about Rogi mate, all of his acquaintances call him Flip Flop, ain't that right Rogi. One day UMD next day AMHRC then followed by a vladika lackey boy. Your dad is a Vladika man aint he?

Boge, is this your contribution on this thread? There are many strong Macedonian activists who come from families of Grkomani, Srbomani etc. It is irrelevant to speak of other family members and highly inappropriate no matter what (in your mind) is the truth. Any forum participant should be assessed on their own contribution. What you have contributed is obvious. This will stop.

[Risto the Great]

being unaware of any of my "plans" how do you know what you are talking about?

It is you convincing me that my "plan" is unrealistic, just because I don't think it's a wise idea to elaborate it on a public forum that most probably is monitored?

Monitored by whom? Is it the evil Albanians, the evil Greeks or the Teflon Macedonians?

Can you tell us about any of the most successful secret Macedonian initiatives from the past? Don't talk about Ilinden though, Goce is on the bad list now. Remember .... thick, slaves, weak .... tsk tsk

[fyrOM]

The actions of the government did give the impression of a Grand Plan

Say you are working to solve the impediments to eu requirements

Make improvements in laws taxation judiciary ect. It is needed anyway but also it looks like you are complying so they give you funds

Suck up the eu funds to fix the country ie infrastructure agriculture ect

Drag the process out so you can suck more funds to get more done so if you do run you are in a more solid position to do so.

Modernise the army and police…on the surface for effective policing but also as a contingency if things go bad.

Also to give you more time to work on countries to recognise you

Rout out any traitors

Make contingency plans if it goes to the dogs and a referendum is called eg give the diaspora a chance to register themselves and get their papers in order as they are a solid base of No votes

Try to engage the eu un nato ect on the basic human rights to self determination and point out their own laws on this and how they apply to Macedonia

Fix up any problems with the census to ensure corruption doesn’t happen

Do the concuss and show everyone the Albanians are less than 25 percent and hence some parts of the Framework agreement don’t apply.

Eventually when the reforms are upto date and a positive evaluation is received it will become evident that ONLY the name stands in the way keep carrying on about the self determination stuff but get ready to run.

Declare you have tried everything to fix things but the name demands are unreasonable and unworkable and do a runner…there is life outside the eu…just look at Turkey.

Tear up Framework Agreement and IA

At least in theory

Scary bit seeing western RoM getting covered by diva gradba ie unplanned construction of buildings. Point to the great plan might be a smokescreen.

interesting times from april of next to the end of the following year. its got to go down one way or another.

[Vangelovski]

OziMak,

I retract my comments about you making progress...I was way too hasty. My mistake.

[Vangelovski]

Boge,

How are the Ganstas in the Gong?

[Vangelovski]

How does one encourage (rather quickly) a shift in individuals consciousness , as a collective?

Personally I don't believe there is a 'quick fix'. It will be extremly difficult and take a very long time. Historical experience shows that it can take centuries in some cases (though there are examples of much quicker 'awakenings', but the same conditions do not exist in Macedonia). Goce Delcev (an unsuccessful 'name-caller' according to some) made it his life's work to awaken Macedonians from their slave mentality.

The important thing to realise is that we need FREE thinking individuals, not a collective mass of sheep - we already have that.

[fyrOM]

Vangeloski that’s ok for retracting your statement we cant all be at the same level of intelligence.

But did you notice how many post you and others went around in circles…on the one hand What’s this Great Plan its all bogus…on the other hand Give us your detailed step by step how to and not just general we need this.

Seriously keep going guys…its interesting to watch the battle of wills…Ill stand on the sideline and see who wins.

[Vangelovski]

Vangeloski that’s ok for retracting your statement we cant all be at the same level of intelligence.

But did you notice how many post you and others went around in circles…on the one hand What’s this Great Plan its all bogus…on the other hand Give us your detailed step by step how to and not just general we need this.

Seriously keep going guys…its interesting to watch the battle of wills…Ill stand on the sideline and see who wins.

Understanding basic concepts about the world we live in isn't about "levels of intelligence" or "winning or losing".

How about you lighten the mood with one of your irrelevant and long-winded analogies?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Soldier,

it started from a objection due to degradation of Macedonians living in RoM, which happen to be so difficult to avoid when trying supposedly to educate our compatriots.

But now, it looks like some kind of a crusade against the "heretics".
I guess they want me to be crucified for giving such sinful objection.

I don't think it's a crusade against the 'heretics'. I am sure you can agree that Macedonians are tired of the lack of transparency from all elements claiming to work on their behalf, that is why this 'secret' plan of yours isn't being received well. Unfortunately, such an ambiguous approach also resembles that of vassal groups such as the UMD. In my opinion, Macedonians need to know what initiatives are being prepared if their support is to be counted on.

As for the degradations of Macedonians living in RoM, can you refer me to the statement you objected to?