Albanianization in Macedonia

[Brian]

I told you,the right to have the albanian language on all levels!

I gave you a clear fact from 2008/2009 from the state statistics department!

If we are 17% of the total population,then how can we make up 33% of the kids on the albanian program in primary schools?

that kind of young population structure doesnt even exist in Pakistan and Afghanistan

the number of albanian students in pre-school age,primary and highschool is about 150,000 !

If we are 17% of the total population-which is 340,000,how can we have a population under 18 years of age that numbers 45%?

As I said,not even Pakistan and Afghanistan have those numbers!

so it is more like we are around 550,000 or 30% under the age of 18-which means we make up 27-28% of the total population!

Wow you sound like a lying Greek now with all those fabricated numbers, but then again most Greeks were ethnic Albanians before so I can see the connection.

Let's have some facial recognition programs if you are SO sure you are 33%.

Does logic escape you - if more Albanian women are getting married younger and having more kids close in age than any other ethnic group then the proportion of school children being disproportionate to the general public number can and is understandable.

[Big Bad Sven]

Some english sources of the violence against macedonian people in the last few days:



Interethnic incidents break out in Macedonia.
Tanjug
Region | subota 10.03.2012 | 12:07

SKOPJE -- Several incidents between ethnic Albanians and Macedonians were reported last night in Macedonia.

Four ethnic Albanians attacked three minors in the capital of Skopje late on Friday.

Macedonian police have confirmed that the attackers beat up the three victims with fists and metal bars and that one of them was in the hospital.

The police stated that another incident happened earlier on Friday when a 16-year-old Macedonian girl was attacked on the street in the town of Tetovo. A group of Albanian men first verbally attacked her and then tackled her to the ground and started kicking her.

Macedonian media reported last night that two more incidents happened on Friday – the first one was in Skopje when a 20-year-old man was attacked and the other one on a bus, but police have not officially confirmed the information.

Macedonian officials and international representative have called on the police to quickly apprehend the perpetrators and on the citizens to calm down.



Macedonians, Albanians Clash in Skopje, Tetovo.
Novinite.com
World | March 10, 2012, Saturday| 468 views

Several people were arrested after clashes between Macedonian and Albanian youths in the capital Skopje and in Tetovo on Friday night.

In Skopje, three underage Macedonians were attacked by four ethnic Albanians, while in Tetovo a 16-year-old girl was beaten up by a group of Albanians.

According to reports of local media, two brawls also took place in an intercity bus and in Skopje, but the details are yet unknown.

Some 10 people were said to have been injured in the overnight attacks.

Since the beginning of 2012, a total of 25 incidents involving ethnical violence have taken place in Macedonia, most of them in Skopje and Tetovo, and 38 people have been injured.

Two churches have been torched by Albanians.

Ethnic Albanians are believed to make up 25% of Macedonia's population of 2 million.


PM Gruevski condemns recent violent incidents, calls them 'cowardly and dishonest'

Skopje, 10 March 2012 (MIA) - Premier Nikola Gruevski has condemned recent violent incidents in Skopje and in several other cities in Macedonia calling on stakeholders to respect country's coexistence. He stressed that the violent behaviour was "dishonest and illegal" and that perpetrators would be punished.

"Firstly, let me condemn the acts of some people who make reckless steps - they are cowardly, dishonest and illegal. I urge everybody to refrain from such incidents. Parents and teachers should have an influence over young people to make reasonable decisions. Young people should use their energy for positive, creative things instead to disturb peace and tranquility of the citizens," Gruevski stated.

He called on political stakeholders not to abuse the situation by using "hate speech" in an attempt to directly or indirectly encourage teenagers to take part in such incidents. By doing so, the PM added, they are creating a bad image for themselves as political factors.

"I urge everyone - political and non-political stakeholders, individuals, citizens, teachers, professors, parents including young people - to act with responsibility in the spirit of coexistence, which has been built in Macedonia for years, decades even centuries," PM Gruevski pledged.

He added that the Interior Ministry and other relevant institutions would take measures to bring the perpetrators to justice. ba/16:11

[Big Bad Sven]

Some english sources of the violence against macedonian people in the last few days:



Interethnic incidents break out in Macedonia.
Tanjug
Region | subota 10.03.2012 | 12:07

SKOPJE -- Several incidents between ethnic Albanians and Macedonians were reported last night in Macedonia.


The police stated that another incident happened earlier on Friday when a 16-year-old Macedonian girl was attacked on the street in the town of Tetovo. A group of Albanian men first verbally attacked her and then tackled her to the ground and started kicking her.

There are so many disgusting examples of shiptar barbarism towards macedonian people in the articles i posted, but i decided to pick this example.

I challenge all of you shiptars who participate on this forum to come up with a valid excuse and explanation of why this poor macedonian teenage girl was verbally abused and then beaten up?
I cant wait for your pathetic and sorry excuses as you try to defend these thugs just because they are shiptars and you dont care for the teenage girl simply because she is a macedonian.

If you guys had any moral decency, or any guts, you would admit that these actions were wrong, and were hate crimes directed towards macedonains. But im not holding my breath after you guys were pathetic in defending the drug dealers against the cop who defended his daughter.

To the macedonians and non-albanians on this forum, why dont we make this fun and try to guess what pathetic and lame excuse the shiptars will use in defending the thugs that attacked the teenage girl?

Here are some of my guesses:

- The "pro-macedonian" media, which in turn is supported by the "nationalist" gruevski party made all of this up to make the innocent and peaceful shiptars look bad. The girl and the shiptar thugs were all actors!

- The girl "deserved" it because she refused to speak albanian, and that it self is a major form of "racism" and "intolerance" towards the shiptars.

- The girl actually started it, as she was the one who first verbally threaten the shiptar thugs and then started attacking them. Man, you gotta watch out for this teenage girls, they can really hurt you in a fight!

- Or my personal favorite, "all balcan is crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Big Bad Sven]

If these daily incidents against Macedonians continue, expect a war later this year.

We have seen for the past 3 years the pathetic sad decline of the republic of macedonia turn into some sort of shiptar mafia state and hypernationalist shiptar disney land theme park, while in this process many macedonians have been harmed and beaten.

You would think after 3 abusive and humiliating years macedonians would stand up and demonstrate for their basic human rights, but the best we have seen is seeing confused macedonians join their shiptar "friends" in a march against "police brutality" (waving ventilator with pride as well!).

So i am not holding my breathe, the macedonians are low on spirit and hope, and it doesn't help that they dont have a government that they can turn to thanks to the dickless gruevski in charge and his albanian friends.

But if macedonians do stand up (and i really hope they do!) then i wish them all of the luck, because they sure wont be getting any help from the dickless gruevski or any of the orthodox brothers. But as history as shown macedonians dont need help from anyone to make big changes happen, and when macedonians do get organized and motivated a lot of amazing things happen.
I just hope the macedonians remember all of this before its too late.

[Niko777]

BBS I agree with you, but these recent attacks seem more personal, because most of the the victims are young teens so I could just imagine how outraged their parents are seeing their children attacked and wounded in hospitals.

[The LION will ROAR]

Каменувана македонската амбасада во Приштина- радикали од Косово и Албанија и се закануваат на Македонија

Радикални националистички групи во Албанија и Косово кои со денови преку социјалните мрежи користат говор на омраза против Македонците и се закануваат со одмазда вчера организирале краток протест пред македонската амбасада во Приштина.

Десетина непознати лица вчера попладне се собрале пред македонската амбасада во Приштина при што со камења е скршено стакло на постаментот каде се поставени промотивни материјали за Македонија.

Групата која се организирала на Фејсбук од македонските власти бара да запре систематскиот терор што наводно го вршат Македонците врз Албанците. Лицата кои се членови на неколку различни радикални структури бараат да запре насилството врз Албанците заканувајќи се дека во спротивно тие ќе употребат и реципроцитет при што ниеден Македонец во албанските земји нема да биде безбеден. Паралелно со протестите на радикалните косовски организации за вторник напладне се закажани демонстрации и пред македонската амбасада во Тирана.

Во организација на групата "Собрание на патриоти", во соработка со "Уникомб“ , партијата за национално единство на Албанците која има свој огранок и во Косово, најавуваат протести пред македонската амбасада во Тирана.

- Насилство против Албанците во Македонија каде од македонската полиција беа убиени двајца Албанци, а 15 ученици Албанци беа претепани не се случајни", се вели во соопштението дистрибуирано на социјалните мрежи, а во кое се обвинува таканаречена македонска терористичка организација.

Демонстрантите во Тирана во вторник ќе повикаат "враќање на албанските региони во Македонија кон нивната матична држава Aлбанија", стои во повикот на албанското собрание на патриоти. /www.kanal5.com.mk

http://www.kanal5.com.mk/default.aspx?mId=37&egId=13&eventId=88385

Now there are attacks to the Macedonian Embassy in Pristina..

Here is a quote in article
Google translator
The organization of the "Assembly of patriots" in cooperation with "Unikomb" Party of National Unity of Albanians which has a branch in Kosovo, announced protest to the Macedonian Embassy in Tirana.

- Violence against Albanians in Macedonia where the Macedonian police killed two Albanians, Albanians and 15 students were beaten not random, "it said in a statement distributed social networks, in which the accused called Macedonian terrorist organization.

Demonstrators in Tirana on Tuesday called "return of Albanian regions of Macedonia to their home country Albanija," the call of the Albanian Assembly patriots. /

this is what these thugs are spreading - false and hate propaganda

[The LION will ROAR]

BBS I agree with you, but these recent attacks seem more personal, because most of the the victims are young teens so I could just imagine how outraged their parents are seeing their children attacked and wounded in hospitals.

Niko777 or others should we start a new thread called

"Provocations by Albanians since Framework Agreement "

I just don't have time at the moment maybe you guys could start one up, I think we should put together all these Provocations done by Albanians towards Macedonians...

[Zarni]

The organization of the "Assembly of patriots" in cooperation with "Unikomb" Party of National Unity of Albanians which has a branch in Kosovo, announced protest to the Macedonian Embassy in Tirana.

- Violence against Albanians in Macedonia where the Macedonian police killed two Albanians, Albanians and 15 students were beaten not random, "it said in a statement distributed social networks, in which the accused called Macedonian terrorist organization.

Demonstrators in Tirana on Tuesday called "return of Albanian regions of Macedonia to their home country Albanija," the call of the Albanian Assembly patriots. /

False lies and then direct Territorial ambitions towards our Country admitted.

Neanderthals I see the mentality of Shiptars in the UN province Kosovo no different to the tribal attitudes of those in Iraq and Afghanistan

[Niko777]

So far in the last month we have had territorial claims coming from both Tirana and Prishtina. How does the Macedonian government respond? By signing more "friendship agreements" and "agreements of cooperation" in Kosovo and Albania, in other words pretending everything is fine and dandy. They wouldn't dare to disrupt "such a beautiful friendship".

[Phoenix]

It's funny when our little posse of disgruntled shiptari come marching into the forum, waving their protest flags and screaming discrimination from the top of their lungs to anybody prepared to listen.

The argument is always the same, their claim that they've been in Macedonia in massive numbers since "pre-recorded history" (LOL).

Lets consider a few other ethnic groups that have been in Macedonia for centuries, the Vlasi, the Roma and the Turks. Why don't Macedonian's have the same horrendous relations with these 3 groups...?

I believe the answer is quite simple, the Vlasi, Roma and Turks have been in Macedonia for centuries and over that period they've been able to coexist with the Macedonian's, overcoming many obstacles during that period. On the other hand the shiptari are a NEW addition to the landscape (in their recently 'large' numbers), many have been in Macedonia only since the break-up of the YU Federation.

A very small number of shiptari have been in Macedonia for a significant time, the vast majority are recently arrived, hence their refusal to be part of the wider community and their inability to fit in and yet our pathetic, cowardly government is selling all of us (Macedonians, Vlasi, Roma and Turks) out to this bloody shiptar scourge.

[The LION will ROAR]

Tепачите на тинејџерите пред „Ентернет“ активисти на ДПА, тврдат медиуми
11.03.2012 - 17:45 |

Македонија

Петмината насилници кои полиција ги уапси поради физички напад врз малолетници во интернет кафе во скопската населба Дебар маало се активисти и членови на Демократската партија на Албанците, објавија дел од медиумите

Групата, составена од В.Ј. (17) од Глумово, И.С.(20) и Е.С. (19) од Крушопек, Е.В. (21) од Грчец и Р.А. (22) од Скопје вчера околу 17 часот без каква било причина ги нападнала А.Г. (16) и двајцата негови другари Д.Д. (17) и А.С. (17) пред интернет кафето „Ентернет“ на ул. „Орце Николов“.

Насилниците беа упасени од полицијата по нападот пред северната трибина на Градскиот стадион и Подоцна препознаени од нападнатите момчиња, информираат од полицијата.

Сите членови на групата, освен Е.С., имаат криминални досиеја. Пријавувани се за кражби, тешки кражби, разбојништва, насилства и друго

http://www.sitel.com.mk/dnevnik/makedonija/tepachite-na-tinejdzerite-pred-%E2%80%9Eenternet%E2%80%9C-aktivisti-na-dpa-tvrdat-mediumi

Google translator
Quote"
The five thugs who police arrested for assault on minors in internet cafe in Skopje settlement Debar neighborhood are activists and members of the Democratic Party of Albanians,

All group members except E.S. have criminal records. Reported for thefts, robberies, robbery, violence, etc.

[Bugi]

Imagine if those 150,000 Kosovars weren't given citizenship as well. What an unnatural situation that will precipitate an inevitable war in the future.

What 150,000 Kosovars?
Kosovo albanians have a higher birth rate than albanians in Macedonia,if 150,000 came in Macedonia,macedonians would have been a minority already.

if you dont accept the 2002 census,look at the one in 1994,albanians made 22% of the population or 440,000 people!

[Bugi]

Thats true and at least half of the other minority children are being forced to choose Albanian language program. I`ve met two school teacher on facebook and thats what the said to me. One was from Debar, other was from Skopje. They said that even if Turkish population is higher on some towns, districts, there are no Turkish language programs and when they speak about this issue with Albanian mayors or politicians from Skopje, they are being ridiculed by them and eventually half of the children are getting educated in Albanian and other half in Macedonian

you are wrong my friend.there are not turks in Debar region!
there are only albanians and torbesh-slavic muslims-some of which think they are turks-95% of them dont know turkish!

This stupid lie has been told by 4-5 different Albanians here before. Apparently, this lie has been taught to Albanian people. The number of people who came to Turkey was ~250.000 at most and if all of them was Albanians then how come Turkish population in Macedonia has been dropped by 50% and Albanian population continued to increase in 1960s censuses?

the albanians in certain periods declared to be turks,thats why turks decreased in number because they werent real turks!
even today it is hard to find a real turk in Macedonia,they all have something albanian or torbesh in them,in Radovish region for example,many roma declare to be turks!

[Bugi]

Of course you "don't get it", you have no respect for anything other than something Albanian. When you can understand NOT Albanian DOES NOT mean ethnic Macedonian then you will show some signs of civility.

In any event the Albanian flag is the state flag of another country and for this reason CANNOT be legally used in ANY official capacity for ANY other country than Albania so you cannot hang it off another country's state institutions and claim it represents your ethnicity - it is NOT JUST an ethnic Albanian flag. Again you have no respect.

so before you knew about the Vergina sun-that was found in the 1970's,the ethnic macedonians didint have a national flag?

Croats in Bosnia are about 20%-they are a official nation-NOT minority in the country
Serbs are 30%-official constitutional national element in Bosnia

so how come Macedonia cant become the country of the macedonian and albanian people?

I think you realize the double standards!

[EgejskaMakedonia]

What 150,000 Kosovars?
Kosovo albanians have a higher birth rate than albanians in Macedonia,if 150,000 came in Macedonia,macedonians would have been a minority already.

if you dont accept the 2002 census,look at the one in 1994,albanians made 22% of the population or 440,000 people!

Obviously you have no idea about the 150,000+ Kosovo refugees that were granted asylum in Macedonia during 1999. Very few have returned to Kosovo since, yet claim they have been in Macedonia for centuries (people like you).

Fancy that, a nation gives you homes, food, a place to live during a war with the serbs, and in turn you terrorise Macedonian villages and people, bash and beat Macedonian civilians and distance yourselves from anything and everything to do with Macedonia. If someone came to my house and disrespected it, I'd throw them out. That is what the Macedonian government really needs to consider if this trend continues. It may actually save lives and prevent an armed conflict.

How long will these constant attacks on Macedonian children and commuters go on before a stand is taken and people declare that enough is enough.

It seems that the Albanians that defend these pathetic attackers justify this uncivilised behaviour with the 'rights call.' Why is it so hard to understand that you've been granted far more prestigious rights than any other minority throughout the Balkans. Why don't you mention the Macedonian minority in Albania and their 'equal' treatment? People like you always want to take, yet are unwilling to give in any situation.

How you can defend people using poles/bats or any other weapon to hit children and innocent bystanders is beyond me. If ethnic Macedonians were the perpetrators, there would be protest after protest, and the Albanian minority would once again cry foul play whilst plotting their 'revenge.' But the moment an Albanian is the attacker, they are praised as some kind of freedom fighter who attacked children to show how oppressed they are.

Do you condone this violence? If they are Albanian, does that somehow make them innocent or immune from such acts of crime?
If your answer to the later is 'yes,' then I guess you have a lot in common with the DPMNE government.