Albanianization in Macedonia

[Bugi]

LOL you are pathetic!

The policeman was attacked by DRUG DEALERS in front of his OWN house, and they also threatened his own DAUGHTER!

There is no excuse for the 4 shiptar drug dealers for intimidating a policeman, but you are so blinded by hate and nationalism that you are willing to defend drug dealer criminals just because they are albanian.

You are pathetic

yea,drug dealers,and you saw everything,you knew who they were,right?

they said they attacked his kid,which later turned out to be false,then they said he fired a couple of warning shots,which again turned out to be false...now we have the drug dealer story!

[Bugi]

But ancient macedonia extended as far as kosovo at its peak bre tikvar, and skopje was part of ancient macedonia too! And when the ancient macedonian kingdom fell apart im sure many ancient macedonians still lived in most of those places. When the ottoman empire collapsed there were still many turks in the balkans and arabic lands!

What makes you shiptars so special, that makes you guys "ethnically pure"? Your starting to sound like the modern "greeks'! Let me guess, you can trace your family tree back to the ancient Illyrians lol

we arent ethnically pure,but our background is Illyrian!
and all parts of Macedonia populated by albanians were Illyrian and Paeonian!

Skupi-Shkupi-capital of the illyrian dardani tribe!

ancient macedonians extended till India!
but all of that was OCCUPIED territory!

ancient Macedonia is in todays northern Greece and very small parts in Manastiri region!-Pelagonia

[Bugi]

Lol albania does not recognize the macedonian republic, only as FYROM

Shiptars in macedonia dont recognize or accept our flag, want it changed, same as the name of macedonia.

In kosovo the shiptars treat the goranci like garbage and try to forcefully assimilate them.

You guys dont respect macedonia one bit.

Yea,you know how we treat Goranis,and why do you care about goranis anyways?

it would be strange if we dont asimilate them,we share the same religion!

I can tell you 3 personal cases where Torbesh muslims married albanians in Dibra region.
when two ethnic groups with the same religion live next to eachother,its always the bigger one who asimilates the otherone-thats the definition!

[Phoenix]

today you have a bigger albanian-macedonian diaspora than a macedonian diaspora,so...

Have you got any official statistics to back up your claim?

If it wasnt for the deportations of albanians from Serboslavian controlled Vardar Banovina,we would have been double the number we are today!!

We're discussing Macedonia here you disrespectful fuckin' prick, use the name Macedonia or fuck off...

in royal and communist yugoslavia,about 250,000 albanian muslims are sent to Turkey under a series of treaties between the two states...

Show me officially where these people were 'albanian' and not Turkish.
It wouldn't be the first time that a shiptar was bullshitting...

Skopje/Shkupi for example,before the serbian occupation in 1912,was a 60% muslim city!

Once again...show me the official statistics

[Bugi]

Have you got any official statistics to back up your claim?

1995, there were 40,000 Macedonian citizens in Switzerland. This number has risen further to 61,000 by 2002. This increase does not necessarily reflect immigration, but rather re-registration of formerly Yugoslav citizens as Macedonian nationals. An estimated 50,000 emigrants from Macedonia are ethnic Albanians.

you have about 100,000 more in Germany and a 30,000 more in other countries in Europe!

be sure on that!

We're discussing Macedonia here you disrespectful fuckin' prick, use the name Macedonia or fuck off...

Im talking about the official name of the region under serbian occupation!

Show me officially where these people were 'albanian' and not Turkish.
It wouldn't be the first time that a shiptar was bullshitting...

look at the censuses taken in Macedonia from 1945
you can see a huge decrease of the turkish population in favor of the albanian one,back then the albanians declared to be turks in order to get out of the country which had a high anti-albanian sentiment

Iseljavanje iz Kraljevine Jugoslavije

Po povratku srpske vojske 1918. godine, nasilno iseljavanje Albanaca, bez prava povratka, nastavilo se sve do Drugog svjetskog rata. U periodu Kraljevine Jugoslavije, "leteći odredi" vojske, policije i četnika mučili su i ubijali albansko stanovništvo.Od 1918. do 1938. vojska je zapalila i uništila 320 albanskih sela. Samo u razdoblju 1918-1921, ubijeno je 12.346 osoba, zatvoreno 22.160, opljačkano 50.515 kuća i spaljeno 6.125 kuća. Prema podacima Istorijskog instituta u Prištini, u periodu 1919.-1940. godine je iseljeno ukupno 255.878 muslimana iz Kraljevine Jugoslavije u Tursku, od čega:
Albanaca: 215.412
Turaka: 27.884
Bošnjaka: 2.582
Pored iseljavanja u Tursku, postojala je i velika emigracija u Albaniju. Prema nekim podacima, samo u 1921. godini iz jugoslavenskih oblasti u Albaniju je iselilo oko 40.000 osoba. Osim Turske i Albanije, Albanci su bježali i u Europu i Sjevernu Ameriku, i na taj način je nastala brojna albanska dijaspora u tim zemljama.
Prvi državni kontakti između Kraljevine SHS i Turske oko iseljenja Albanaca ostvareni su 1926. godine, a 1933. je uspostavljena nova platforma Jugoslovenskog ministarstva agrikulture, čija je misao vodilja bila da ekspatrijacija Albanaca može biti postignuta samo kao dugoročan proces, jer ni Jugoslavija nema dovoljno sredstava niti međunarodne okolnosti dozvoljavaju da to bude izvedeno u kratkom roku. Po zavođenju diktature, Kraljevina Jugoslavija je intenzivirala etničko čišćenje Albanaca, u čemu je vodeću ulogu imao Srpski kulturni klub, podržan od državne administracije.
Jugoslavenske vlasti su 1935. održale sastanak predstavnika pet ministarstava i Generalštaba na kome je sastavljen projekat „o iseljenju neslovenskog elementa iz Južne Srbije“. Među njegovim zaključcima dominira potreba hitnog donošenja bilateralnih konvencija sa Turskom i Albanijom. Dogovorom je predviđeno oslobađanje od svih poreza i vojne obveze za one koji bi se dobrovoljno odrekli jugoslavenskog državljanstva i besplatan prijevoz za one koji bi svoju nepokretnu imovinu ostavili državi. Prijedlozi Generalštaba su prihvaćeni kao mjere za „uspešnije i brže iseljavanje neslovenskog življa“ u Tursku i Albaniju. Mjere su podrazumijevale i suzbijanje propagande protiv iseljavanja koja se vodila iz Tirane, češće pozivanje albanskih regruta iz graničnih područja na vojne vježbe, zabranu primanja u državnu službu „lica koja dolaze u obzir za iseljenje“, premještaj neslavenskih činovnika u druge krajeve zemlje, „nacionalizovanje geografskih objekata i osobnih prezimena“ itd.
Turska je početkom 1936. izrazila spremnost zaključiti s Jugoslavijom formalni sporazum o iseljavanju 200.000 stanovnika "koji su srodni po mentalitetu turskom, te će se u Turskoj lako asimilirati".
Kritizirajući politiku dugotrajnog iseljavanja Albanaca, srpski akademik i političar Vasa Čubrilović predlaže načine za rješavanje "albanskog problema" masovnim etničkim čišćenjem Kosova od Albanaca.Čubrilović je 1937. godine izradio projekat isterivanja Albanaca za Stojadinovićevu vladu, koji su trebale sprovesti državne vlasti.
„Arnaute je nemoguće suzbiti samo postupnom kolonizacijom ... Jedini način i jedino sredstvo to je brutalna sila jedne organizovane državne vlasti, u čemu smo mi uvek bili iznad njih.“
(Vaso Čubrilović)
Beogradska vlast je organizirala paravojne formacije četnika, koje su predvodili Kosta Pećanac, Milić Krstić, Jovan Babunski, Vasilije Trbić i drugi, koji su organizirali kaznene ekspedicije vršeći nasilje, teror i organiziranu pljačku.7. oktobra 1938. Ministarstvo vojske Kraljevine Jugoslavije naređuje da se nastavi akcija iseljavanja Albanaca, a komanda III. armije predlaže mjere kojima treba "smišljeno, sistematski, ali i energično" sprovoditi ovu akciju, dovoditi srpski elemenat i nastojati da se u što skorije vrijeme jake kompaktne mase arnautske razbiju. Armija pritom ukazuje i na značajnu ulogu koju trebaju odigrati Crkva, narodna obrana i privatna inicijativa.
U vrijeme veoma teškog razdoblja za Albance pod srpskom monarhističkom upravom, Komunistička partija Jugoslavije je djelovala na Kosovu i Metohiji, zalažući se za autonomiju i bratsku ravnopravnost naroda , a protiv iseljavanju Albanaca u Tursku, oduzimanju njihove zemlje i teroru prema njima.

[Risto the Great]

well why should albanians be treated as a minority?

I hate to break it to you. Because they are. Didn't you know this?

thats the main problem,albanians dont feel wanted,they feel the state/government as foreign!

I'm sure the Spanish speaking Americans feel the same. And they don't even have ministers in positions of control in the government nor do they have the right of veto as afforded in the framework agreement. So your defenses seem absolutely baseless. You are a minority with excessive rights. Why can't any of you explain the framework agreement and the constitutional amendments that were made to appease all the external meddlers in Macedonia (and supposedly the ethnic Albanians).

If we are 17% of the total population,then how can we make up 33% of the kids on the albanian program in primary schools?

I would imagine having more than twice as many children as Macedonians could achieve this result. You can't be very good at maths.

Imagine if those 150,000 Kosovars weren't given citizenship as well. What an unnatural situation that will precipitate an inevitable war in the future.

[Phoenix]

1995, there were 40,000 Macedonian citizens in Switzerland. This number has risen further to 61,000 by 2002. This increase does not necessarily reflect immigration, but rather re-registration of formerly Yugoslav citizens as Macedonian nationals. An estimated 50,000 emigrants from Macedonia are ethnic Albanians.

The Swiss numbers are difficult to quantify because the vast majority of the Albanian numbers are from Albanians emigrating from Kosovo (up to 80% of the total)...I think you're using this number to artificially inflate the Macedonian number.

It seems quite a skill that you guys have...

Interestingly, did you know that the Albanians are the most disliked ethnic group in Switzerland...you should start an uprising there as well.

[makgerman]

so why dont albanians dont have full rights as macedonians?
why the albanian language is not official on all state levels?

What rights to the Macedonians have that the Shiptars don't have?
Name them. Remember this is Macedonia where the shiptars are currently a minority, it is not in Kosovo or in Albania. Why should the Shqiptar language be official as it is already used everywhere where Shqiptari may live.

What we have today in Macedonia is what we fought for and got through blood!

You haven't achieved anything through fighting - but by receiving military aid from the USA/EU. If it wasn't for them the hundreds of thousands of Kosovars would not have come to Macedonia, they would stayed in Kosovo where the Serbs would have brought you down to earth.

making fun of islamic values is a insult,you should have known better!

Don't talk shit! No one has ever stopped you from practicing your religion nor has anyone burnt your mosques or destroyed your graves in the same manner you have done to the Macedonians and Serbs in Kosovo. You don't mention that the Shqiptari in Albania weren't allowed to practice their Catholic religions when they were under the Commnunist rule in Albania but had no problems in Macedonia or in any of the former Yugoslav republics.

do you know how many times the albanian flag was burned?
as I said,start looking at the cause!

How many times was the Albanian flag burnt? Tell me and I bet it is far more less than the times a Shiptar has stabbed a Macedonian.

this is not Australia,this is the balkans,things here are a little bit more complicated...

Let me understand this, you want to be treated the way migrants are treated in the developed world but because you are Albanian you deserve special treatment because you live in the Balkans.

Have you ever asked yourself why the shqiptari are not as vocal and have behave d themselves in Greece where there are hundreds of thousands of Shqiptari. The answer is because USA/EU have given the Greeks the Green Light to do whatever is necessary to keep the Shqiptari under control and to obey the Greek Law.

[Onur]

Yes, Albanians are a higher percentage in some of the younger age groups due to higher birthrates in recent years, which is why when you look at the population of people 50+, Macedonians make up 90%. The Albanian language program is controversial because it also includes non-Albanians. Albanians will only achieve a population of 33% if it maintains the same birthrates for the next 20 years and if all other ethnic groups also maintain the same birthrate

Thats true and at least half of the other minority children are being forced to choose Albanian language program. I`ve met two school teacher on facebook and thats what the said to me. One was from Debar, other was from Skopje. They said that even if Turkish population is higher on some towns, districts, there are no Turkish language programs and when they speak about this issue with Albanian mayors or politicians from Skopje, they are being ridiculed by them and eventually half of the children are getting educated in Albanian and other half in Macedonian

in royal and communist yugoslavia,about 250,000 albanian muslims are sent to Turkey under a series of treaties between the two states

This stupid lie has been told by 4-5 different Albanians here before. Apparently, this lie has been taught to Albanian people. The number of people who came to Turkey was ~250.000 at most and if all of them was Albanians then how come Turkish population in Macedonia has been dropped by 50% and Albanian population continued to increase in 1960s censuses?

The events which resulted with this population movement was the death sentences given to the 10-15 Turkish teachers&journalists and imprisonment of 90-100 Turkish people. They have been accused of being a Turkish/NATO spy. None of these events was related with Albanians and the people who migrated out from Macedonia was mostly Turks.

I cant find atm but i posted and article here before, the figures of the mothertongues of people came from Macedonia at that time. Only around 15% had Albanian mothertongue, the rest was Turkish and Macedonian. I am not saying that there was no Albanians who tried to take advantage of this events and tried to leave war torn communist Yugoslavia in favor of democratic Turkey but they were absolutely minor and they probably had Turkish relatives too otherwise it`s not possible for them to be allowed in Turkey without speaking Turkish but only with Albanian language.

I am sure that if Tito government wouldn't send ~250.000 people at that time, Albanians would never be the biggest minority in Macedonia today. That population movement was the reason of today`s Albanian domination in Macedonia. You can see that in census figures of 1950s and following years.

[United MKD]

More Macedonians beaten up by Albanian thugs:

Претепани Македонци и во Чаир

http://kanal5.com.mk/default.aspx?mId=37&egId=13&eventId=88349

Шеесет и шестгодишник претепан со безбол палки во Ѓорче 2

http://www.netpress.com.mk/mk/vest.asp?id=100166&kategorija=4

[Valmir]

Thats true and at least half of the other minority children are being forced to choose Albanian language program. I`ve met two school teacher on facebook and thats what the said to me. One was from Debar, other was from Skopje. They said that even if Turkish population is higher on some towns, districts, there are no Turkish language programs and when they speak about this issue with Albanian mayors or politicians from Skopje, they are being ridiculed by them and eventually half of the children are getting educated in Albanian and other half in Macedonian


This stupid lie has been told by 4-5 different Albanians here before. Apparently, this lie has been taught to Albanian people. The number of people who came to Turkey was ~250.000 at most and if all of them was Albanians then how come Turkish population in Macedonia has been dropped by 50% and Albanian population continued to increase in 1960s censuses?

The events which resulted with this population movement was the death sentences given to the 10-15 Turkish teachers&journalists and imprisonment of 90-100 Turkish people. They have been accused of being a Turkish/NATO spy. None of these events was related with Albanians and the people who migrated out from Macedonia was mostly Turks.

I cant find atm but i posted and article here before, the figures of the mothertongues of people came from Macedonia at that time. Only around 15% had Albanian mothertongue, the rest was Turkish and Macedonian. I am not saying that there was no Albanians who tried to take advantage of this events and tried to leave war torn communist Yugoslavia in favor of democratic Turkey but they were absolutely minor and they probably had Turkish relatives too otherwise it`s not possible for them to be allowed in Turkey without speaking Turkish but only with Albanian language.

I am sure that if Tito government wouldn't send ~250.000 people at that time, Albanians would never be the biggest minority in Macedonia today. That population movement was the reason of today`s Albanian domination in Macedonia. You can see that in census figures of 1950s and following years.

There are more Albanians in Turkey than in Albania,Kosova and Macedonia! (LEARN THIS)
Even most of your politicans and presidents were Albanians and if you want facts about these call me, I will show you them with Name and photos!


Kenan Evren GENERAL: Mr. journalist, Do not call me Turkish president, but president of Turkey!


IF you want , i can tell you even where his Grandparents were born!
If you want more material on Albanians in Turkey just tell me cus there are Huge towns and parts of cities which are populated with Albanians and still they speak the Albanian language!

[Phoenix]

wow...there must be at least 500 million albanians scattered around the world, with a small colony on Mars as well...

[Brian]

Bosnia is not fully serbian or croat or bosnian

Do they all speak Serbo-Croatian?
Are there numbers roughly even?

You are a minority less then 25% - in reality 15 -17% tops. The lies are pushed on all sides to make the FA work.

Let's have some facial scanning technology like they introduced in India so no one person can become 2 or 3 or a dead corps be counted and we will see how close you get to 25%.

Macedonia wont be eather fully albanian or macedonian or whatever!
it will belong to all of us!

celebrate a day full with ethnic macedonian nationalism?

You say you lived in Struga for 3 years yet your answer says if you did then you must have had your head up your Albanian ass or like a typical Albania you lie and play dumb when you think it suits you.

Macedonian Independence Day is when Macedonia left Yugoslavia (I told you this in my question but you totally ignored it) and has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with being or not being ethnic Macedonian - it is TOTALLY a State holiday for ALL Macedonian citizens regardless of their ethnic background - it has NOTHING to do with ethnic Macedonian culture or religion. The other ethnic groups understand this but you CHOOSE not to.

So how is it -
1. You cannot celebrate a day marking leaving Yugoslavia which has NO ethnic connection at ALL?

2. You say you are a Macedonian citizen and ethnic Albanian, then how do you conveniently forget this and say in your answer "a day full with ethnic Macedonian nationalism? It is NOT an ethnic day, are you saying you have a problem celebrating something NON-ETHNIC with other Macedonians who are not of your background?

3. Or is the real reason because you are a Macedonian citizen on paper only and see your self as just liberated from a bigger power (ie Yugoslavia) but not fully liberated until Greater Albania is formed and as noone knows that date yet so there is NO independence day for you to celebrate????

albanians still remember how they were treated by the state in the time of communism and the 90's by the macedonian state,thats why they cant join the party,those wounds are still open...
why dont you ask youreself why albanians celebrate more 4 th of july than Macedonia's indipendence?

maybe because America give them more than the macedonian state?
you need to invest in your population if you want them to respect the state,show them that the state cares!

A State owes nothing more to the Albanians than the same rights as a citizen. It so happens the overwhelming proportion are ethnic Macedonians. Do you not have the right to speak your own language, practice your own religion, have your own TV, go to a state paid school offering the same level of education, able to form political an non-political organisations, candidate yourself for government both local and state, vote at all elections, or even become Prime Minister or President if you could get the numbers?

So what is missing that was SO important you HAD TO resort to the gun? - the guarantee to be Prime Minister or President regardless of election results?


The problem is that the official flag of this country is the flag of the ETHNIC macedonians,

The flag is NOT the flag of the ethnic Macedonians - that flag is the 16 pointed star flag - and ANY true citizen would respect the State flag so long as it is the state flag EVEN IF they wanted to change it.

The Australian flag has the Union Jack (UK flag) in the top left corner. There exists an Australian Republican organisation working to make Australia a republic and one of the issues is to change the flag yet NO Australian citizen of ANY ethnic background even those in the Republican organisation would think of disrespecting the country's flag so long as it remains the country's flag - respect is something you Albanians are missing yet you want respect.

the flag should be something accepted by bouth groups,dont you agree?

The State flag can be change by voting and if/when the citizens of Macedonia regardless of ethnic background together vote to change it then you will see a new flag. Start an organisation like the Australian Republican organisation and convince people to join you to vote for a change - civilised people know how to do that. This was your So important reason to pick up a gun?

the current flag is considered as a national simbol of ethnic macedonians,

By who is it considered an ethnic Macedonian flag and why??? I told you the ethnic flag of the ethnic Macedonians is the 16 point star flag. Also you are a minority so something for now will not be exactly equal. When you are closer to 50% start making more changes but not when you are not even 25%.

so how can albanians go under the flag of another ethnic group and see it as their own?
Im sorry I dont get it...

Of course you "don't get it", you have no respect for anything other than something Albanian. When you can understand NOT Albanian DOES NOT mean ethnic Macedonian then you will show some signs of civility.

In any event the Albanian flag is the state flag of another country and for this reason CANNOT be legally used in ANY official capacity for ANY other country than Albania so you cannot hang it off another country's state institutions and claim it represents your ethnicity - it is NOT JUST an ethnic Albanian flag. Again you have no respect.

[Niko777]

More Macedonians beaten up by Albanian thugs:

Претепани Македонци и во Чаир
http://kanal5.com.mk/default.aspx?mI...&eventId=88349

Шеесет и шестгодишник претепан со безбол палки во Ѓорче 2
http://www.netpress.com.mk/mk/vest.a...6&kategorija=4

If these daily incidents against Macedonians continue, expect a war later this year.

[Brian]

If these daily incidents against Macedonians continue, expect a war later this year.

Yeah, but the Macedonians will sit back and expect someone to fix it - the government, or maybe the EU or NATO or the USA or UN - anyone but themselves. They should ALL prepare for a 'next time' and prepare for it to be short before someone comes in to stop it - hit fast, hit hard and make it count on anything Albanian. This whole thread is full of examples of their feelings for Macedonia ie destruction and it is maybe 1% of what happens on a daily basis in varying degrees on the ground.