Albanianization in Macedonia

[Niko777]

I think we can all agree that the Albanians in Macedonia have so many factors and powers working on their side towards their goal of a greater Albania. The bigger question is, is it too late? Is all this reversible? Or is the snowball effect so large now that it's spinning out of control, and there's no hope, Macedonia will cease to exist in the near future?

[Risto the Great]

I cannot see a future for Macedonia the way it presently exists. The question is whether RoMacedonians have the desire to unchain themselves from this self imposed slavery.

Why do you stay in prison when the door is so wide open?

Jalal ad-Din Rumi

[ProMKD]

Повеќе од 1.000 имиња на улици, плоштади и мостови во Скопје ќе бидат ставени во игра за преименување, дознава „Дневник“ од извори во Советот на Град Скопје. Меѓу предлозите околу 100 се имиња на значајни личности и настани за Албанците, а се очекува повеќе од 200 предлози да поминат.

I hate Macedonian press. What the hell does this crap mean??

So first they say over 1,000 names will be in question.

Then they say out of those 1,000, aboout 100 are names of shiptars.

Then in the SAME sentence it says it expects about 200 of the suggestions to be accepted.

Since it's saying it in the same sentence, one would expect that they expect 200 shiptar names to pass. If there are only 100 shiptar suggestions, how the hell can 200 be accepted?

And if it's saying 200 will pass out of the total 1,000, why the hell would they expect that only 20% of all suggestions will be accepted?? THEY NEVER MAKE SENSE.

[Brian]

I hate Macedonian press. What the hell does this crap mean??

So first they say over 1,000 names will be in question.

Then they say out of those 1,000, aboout 100 are names of shiptars.

Then in the SAME sentence it says it expects about 200 of the suggestions to be accepted.

Since it's saying it in the same sentence, one would expect that they expect 200 shiptar names to pass. If there are only 100 shiptar suggestions, how the hell can 200 be accepted?

And if it's saying 200 will pass out of the total 1,000, why the hell would they expect that only 20% of all suggestions will be accepted?? THEY NEVER MAKE SENSE.

You are right that it is ambiguous but I think it means 1000 names are put into question for a change of which 100 are Albanian names and 200 of the thousand will be accepted for a change, assuming all 100 Albanian names are accepted, then 100 of the 200 accepted changes will be other than Albanian ie Macedonian, Serb, Roma, ect. A possible reason the 100 non-Albanian accepted changes could be to include other minorities and/or Communist era names being change to more Macedonian names.

By the way, this push to learn Albanian and a choice to speak either in Albanian or Macedonian will lead to an ironic twist - in the past the Albanians would speak Albanian to only themselves and within their own community as would be expected of any minority in any country eg Macedonians in Australia, yet in the future they will exercise their 'right' to speak Albanian at every opportunity and it will then be the Macedonians who will be only speaking Macedonian when they encounter another Macedonian eg at a counter/office/shop/ect creating a complete role reversal or if 2 stubborn types meet one will speak Albanian and the other Macedonian at the same time even though both understand each others language.

[Brian]

Jalal ad-Din Rumi

What does that mean RtG?

LOL.Hey, by the way, do you also sometimes grab your ears when you pray?

[Vangelovski]

I hate Macedonian press. What the hell does this crap mean??

So first they say over 1,000 names will be in question.

Then they say out of those 1,000, aboout 100 are names of shiptars.

Then in the SAME sentence it says it expects about 200 of the suggestions to be accepted.

Since it's saying it in the same sentence, one would expect that they expect 200 shiptar names to pass. If there are only 100 shiptar suggestions, how the hell can 200 be accepted?

And if it's saying 200 will pass out of the total 1,000, why the hell would they expect that only 20% of all suggestions will be accepted?? THEY NEVER MAKE SENSE.

I agree with the point about the vagueness in the Macedonian press. But I think the problem is much wider and Macedonians in general are very vague. It is sometimes very frustrating when asking for specific details and receiving completely irrelevant or nonsense responses.

[Stojacanec]

Wasn´t the Sandzhak of Hercegovina part of the Sandzhak of Bosnia during Ottoman times?
Wasn´t Bosnia Hercegovina seen as one entity during the time of Autro-Hungarian empire? Divided in 6 districs?
If Bosnia and the Bosnians was a creation of Tito then Macedonia and the Macedonians also was a creation of Tito. Damn..the Greeks and Bulgarians have been right all this time

If Tito and Stalin got along there is no telling where we would be today.......just some food for thought.

[Krivan]

I think we can all agree that the Albanians in Macedonia have so many factors and powers working on their side towards their goal of a greater Albania. The bigger question is, is it too late? Is all this reversible? Or is the snowball effect so large now that it's spinning out of control, and there's no hope, Macedonia will cease to exist in the near future?

We've been through worse. Nothing is ever too late to fix things. Cut it out with that defeatist attitude.

[Soldier of Macedon]

We've been through worse. Nothing is ever too late to fix things.

How do you think the 'Albanianisation' of Macedonia can be realistically fixed? Is the occupation of Macedonian territory by Greece and Bulgaria something that needs to be fixed, or is it too late?

[Krivan]

How do you think the 'Albanianisation' of Macedonia can be realistically fixed? Is the occupation of Macedonian territory by Greece and Bulgaria something that needs to be fixed, or is it too late?

The only possible option to deal with Albanians is assimilation. If we try to deport them, it won't sit too well with international organizations. We probably will become a pariah state i.e. Serbia during 90s as consequence despite the fact Greeks have been doing it since the 19th century.

Concerning our occupied territory, I believe it is too late to get those lands back. Our last chance was when Chento tried to unify Macedonia but was stopped by Tito.

I think it's best to focus on sorting our affairs at home such as getting our numbers up, improving our economy, reassert our identity (Kutles sun flag, RoM as constitutional name). Those things should come first before any kind of territorial expansions.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The only possible option to deal with Albanians is assimilation. If we try to deport them, it won't sit too well with international organizations. We probably will become a pariah state i.e. Serbia during 90s as consequence despite the fact Greeks have been doing it since the 19th century.

These days, total assimilation is difficult because many peoples wish to preserve their individual ethnic identities. Fair enough. There should still be a level of assimilation to ensure their integration in Macedonian society. But one can only help another if the latter is willing to accept it. Many ethnic Albanians in Macedonia don't want to integrate, at least that is the impression one has when they read the news in Macedonia, and each time our politicians give in to their unreasonable 'demands', it makes it that much harder to preserve Macedonia as the national home of the Macedonian people. Now, even moderate ethnic Albanians will not be willing to give up what their extremist kinsmen have gained. Why would they want to integrate into Macedonian society when they aren't being compelled to, and are in fact being provided the means to do the exact opposite?

The only way to reverse this situation is to replace the Framework Agreement and associated changes to the law, constitution, etc, with a more appropriate arrangement that will not be detrimental to the Macedonian people and their national home. Once this has been done (if it is even possible), then it will need to be enforced. This is where it could get messy. An armed conflict is the last thing I want to see, but perhaps it is inevitable if Macedonia is to be saved. Will ethnic Albanians (extremists or otherwise) fire on Macedonian authorities if they were to dismantle the UCK museum in Skopje, or revoke the right for people to speak non-Macedonian languages in the Macedonian parliament, or return the country on the path to Macedonian statehood rather than this Macedonian-Albanian federation? Will they try to destabilise Macedonia if a Macedonian political party chose not to form an alliance with an ethnic Albanian political party?

Concerning our occupied territory, I believe it is too late to get those lands back.

If the Macedonian republic keeps going the way it is, then that will also eventually be 'too late to fix'. That is why there needs to be a sense of urgency - now. The bad things happening in Macedonia should be our driving force, because God knows there are few good things to encourage us.

I think it's best to focus on sorting our affairs at home such as getting our numbers up, improving our economy, reassert our identity (Kutles sun flag, RoM as constitutional name). Those things should come first before any kind of territorial expansions.

Territorial expansion is impossible without war. I would be happy for the Macedonians in neighbouring countries to be afforded the same rights as the minorities in Macedonia.

[Niko777]

From Today - March 1st 2012

Macedonians Support Albanians in their Protest against "Police Brutality"

aka 1 man defending himself and his young daughter outnumbered 4 to 1.








What do Albanians do in Return?

They destroyed Macedonian owned shops and businesses!







What is the message of today's protests?

1. Self Defence does not apply when you are being attacked by a group of Albanian thugs, not even when your children are at risk

2. The best way to protest "Police Brutality" is to wave Albanian flags and shout Greater-Albania Chants

3. Macedonians supported Albanians in their protests

4. In return Albanians destroyed Macedonian shops and businesses

Note: All photos were from today - March 1

[Niko777]

Sources:

Се демолираат дуќани на Македонци во Гостивар

"Ние тука сме и Македонци и Албанци, заедно...."

[Volk]

Some protests against police brutality, the fact that the man was an of duty police officer has no relevance, he could have been a teacher, baker anything.

He was defending himself and his daughter.

Strangely enough, I didn't know chanting " Allah akber, Ilrida" and calling Macedonians slavs had anything to do with so called police brutality.

[Niko777]

Photo from one of the destroyed shops today.

"Ilirida" must mean "Stop Police Brutality" in Albanian...


Most of the younger Albanians who were protesting did not even know why they were there, they just left school because their teachers told them to go out and protest.