Albanianization in Macedonia

[Brian]

Like 'Greater Albania' was never the agenda from the start.
It's already showing signs of happening with Kosovo, when will it be Western Macedonia's turn?

12 Kosovo lawmakers proposed merger of Albania and Kosovo

http://www.vest.mk/?ItemID=BC5D28979B2CD64999E4F9AF84155E54

Pristina (Photo AP) - A group of 12 Kosovo lawmakers are expected to formally ask Parliament creating union of Kosovo with Albania, reports agency ANA-MPA dispatch from Tirana.

According to the agency, this request should be supported by the Kosovo Parliament Jakup Krasniqi. Albanian newspaper "Subject" announces that it expected demand to vote 38 members of the Albanian community, and also representatives from the Turkish community in Kosovo. newspaper claims that group members prefer to meet with Albanian President Bamir Topi officially to present the proposal and request it to be realized.

[Niko777]

Soon Macedonia's lawmakers will make a similar request.

[Volk]

The albanians want a federated albanian state with three parts, albania, kosovo and all of Macedonia. Step by step they are getting it

[Niko777]

Of course they are getting it, who is stopping them?

[George S.]

The NLA and the Macedonian War-Current news is that the NLA may be getting ready for a new balkan war.(remember in 2001 it only handed in old weapons & saved the new ones for another war)

The NLA was founded in the fall of 1999, and was led by former KLA Commander Ali Ahmeti, nephew of one of the founders of the KLA, but was out of the public eye until it began to openly engage the Macedonian military and police.[citation needed] The NLA's proclaimed goal was equal rights for the ethnic Albanian minority within a confederate Macedonia.[3] Senior NLA commanders insisted that "We do not want to endanger the stability and the territorial integrity of Macedonia, but we will fight a guerrilla war until we have won our basic rights, until we are accepted as an equal people inside Macedonia.".The Macedonian government claimed the NLA were an extremist terrorist organization seeking to separate Albanian majority areas and unite those territories with Albania.
Beginning on January 22, 2001 the NLA began to carry out attacks on Macedonian security forces, using light weapons. The conflict soon escalated and by the start of March 2001, the NLA had taken effective control of a large swathe of northern and western Macedonia and came within 12 miles of the capital Skopje.
In March 2001, NLA members failed to take the city of Tetovo in an open attack, but controlled the hills and mountains between Tetovo and Kosovo. On May 3, 2001 a Macedonian government counter offensive failed in the Kumanovo area.[6] By June 8, the rebels took Aračinovo, a village outside of Skopje. On August , the two sides signed a peace deal ending the open conflict.
[edit]Composition and military capabilities
The NLA was estimated to comprise some 5,000 men at its peak and some of its members were trained by British SAS and Parachute Regiment officers.[7][8] As was the case with the KLA, they were fairly lightly armed – generally with small arms and mortars – though there were later reports that they had acquired FIM-92 Stinger and SAM-7 anti-aircraft missiles. As the war progressed the rebels managed to acquire heavy weapons including T-55 tank's and armoured personnel carriers captured from Macedonian government forces.[9][10]
The NLA was also supported by incursions from Kosovo, so the links to KLA and UCPMB was obvious, but never officially admitted.
[edit]War Crimes
Although the conflict in Macedonia was brief, it was not scant of war crimes. According to Human Rights Watch, "Ethnic Albanian rebels in Macedonia tortured, sexually abused road workers after abducting them from the Skopje-Tetovo highway.[11]
Dozens of ethnic Macedonians were kidnapped. While many were released after a short time, 12 people apparently remained missing after the NLA released 14 others in late September. In October, reports suggested that the 12 may have been killed and buried in mass graves near Neproshteno. The case was referred by the Macedonian government to the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia for investigation.
Another incident which is claimed by Macedonian government to be a war crime was that of the so-called Vejce massacre where Albanian guerrillas ambushed and killed 8 Macedonian special forces from the Lions unit. Where allegedly the victims were executed with cold steel weapons.A patrol of 16 special operatives were coming back from a raid in a nearby village which they had raided a few hours earlier they looted and beat the villagers is what they said, this was done several times a week through 5 villages the patrol rout was always the same which the investigation after the massacre claimed that Albanian guerrillas had been monitoring the patrol for some weeks after they got complains by the ethnic Albanian villagers and had realised that the patrol was always the same rout and approximate times. The families of the dead soldiers and several ministers claim that the information was sold to the guerrillas and that a major betrayal took place. After setting up and ambush and attacking their lightly armoured Humvee vehicles with small arms fire and RPG’s the patrol stopped and Macedonian forces and guerrillas exchanged fire in a short skirmish, after soldiers started retreating half of the patrol managed to escape one soldier was shot and 7 others captured and allegedly executed with knives and then their corpses were allegedly burned.News of the massacre sparked local uprisings against Muslim Albanians in several towns and cities across Macedonia, and such revolts included burning and vandalising shops and Mosques. Surviving members of the roadside patrol that was massacred gave eyewitness testimony of the killings. They claimed that the massacre was carried out by a group of 10 bearded men. Till this day the bodies were not released to the public or civilian investigators and autopsies were carried out in a military morgue.[12][13][14][15]
The alleged NLA bombing of the 13th-century Orthodox monastery Sveti Atanasij in the village of Lesok[16] however no one has ever claimed responsibility for the attack and Albanian guerrilla officials have demised all responsibility and placed the blame on Macedonian special forces saying it was another poor attempt to link the NLA to Islamic extremism, like that of the Asian immigrant massacre and that these incidents were seriously putting the Ohrid agreement and the established peace treaty into jeopardy. Eye whiteness interviewed by British Telegraph reported claimed the cooperates of this incident came from the ethnic Macedonian village of Rate. Even the Macedonian ministers and diplomats in Skopje agreed that the possibility of this attacking being carried out by Albanians was unlikely as the NLA had no history of attacking any religious or cultural buildings or sites.
NATO Military experts said that by evidence gathered from “The fact that the battery was lying within an area spattered by rubble and wreckage seemed to suggest that it was detonated using a relatively sophisticated timer device“ also the extensive amount of explosive used and the type of explosive all pointed to the Macedonian military.[17] This incident is to this day disputed and the monastery is now under reconstruction built with some donations from the Albanian Islamic Union of Macedonia to erase any bad blood and Macedonian government.[18] On the other hand, the Macedonian forces blew up a mosque in the town of Neprosteno. Both structures were rebuilt in 2003 with funding from the EU. The most notable incident was the infamous Asian Immigrant Massacre, when Macedonian special police forces murdered six Pakistanis and an Indian immigrants afterwards planting weapons, explosive and Islamic literature on the corpses claiming they were Al-Qaida cells which were about to attack US Embassy in Skopje. This was conspired by Macedonian government to link the Albanian guerrillas to Al-Qaida so that Macedonia can sympathise with the west by making it seem they are to fighting a War on Terror against Islamic extremists. This atrocious war crime was heavily criticised by the whole world and caused Macedonia to lose much of its foreign support especially from the west, the EU and Pakistan governments strongly insisted that the people responsible for this war crime be brought to justice but the four men allegedly responsible for this were cleared of all charges and received a hero’s sheared after they left court. There were disturbing images of the dead bodies released to parade the victims on TV as trophies.
Other crimes were like that of a three-day operation by Macedonian police against the ethnic Albanian village of Ljuboten, from August 10–12, 2001, which left ten civilians dead and resulted in the arrest of more than 100 men, many of whom were severely beaten and tortured while in police custody.[30] According to the Macedonian government there was a presence of Albanian National Liberation Army in the village; however, the Human Rights Watch investigation on the ground in Ljuboten found no evidence of this and said it was a clear violation by Macedonian forces on human rights. These events led to the trial of the Macedonian minister of internal affairs of the time, Ljube Boškoski, in the International War Crime Tribunal in The Hague.[30] Eventually he was found not guilty.
[edit]Ceasefire and disarmament

After the Ohrid Agreement, the NLA agreed to cease-fire in June. Under the Ohrid Agreement, the Macedonian government pledged to improve the rights of the Albanian population, that make up just over 25 % of the population. Those rights include making Albanian language an unofficial language, increasing the participation of ethnic Albanians in government institutions, police and army. Most importantly, under the Ohrid Agreement, the Macedonian government agreed to a new model of decentralization.
The Albanian side agreed to give up any separatist demands and to fully recognise all Macedonian institutions. In addition, according to this accord the NLA was to disarm and hand over their weapons to a NATO force.
Operation "Essential Harvest" was officially launched on 22 August and effectively started on 27 August. This 30-day mission was to initially involve approximately 3,500 NATO that number went up to 4,200 NATO troops and Macedonian troops to disarm the NLA and destroy their weapons. Just hours after NATO wrapped up the operation, Ali Ahmeti told reporters attending a news conference in the rebel stronghold of Sipkovica that he was dissolving the National Liberation Army and that it was time for ethnic reconciliation.
Many members of the Albanian NLA, led by Ali Ahmeti, later formed the Democratic Union for Integration, a political party that won the majority of the Albanian votes in the 2002 election and formed part of the ruling coalition along with SDSM and LDP until August 2006 when, following July 2006 parliamentary elections, a conservative VMRO-DPMNE / DPA coalition came to government . Total casualties of war on each side are not known, but both sides claimed their own military casualties were around 60 each, while about 60 - 80 ethnic Albanian civilians and possibly about ten Macedonian civilians are thought to have been killed. (See Casualties and displacement in the 2001 Macedonia conflict)
[edit]Recent developments
In April 2010, a weapon cache believed to be intended for the group actions was discovered near the border with Serbia, it included uniforms with UÇK marks.
On the 11th of May 2010, a shootout occurred just across the border of Kosovo and Macedonia. The men opened fire on Macedonian police when they refused to pull over. All four men in the car were killed as a result of the shootout. Macedonian police say they found a cache of weapons once again and it might be linked with the NLA, which threatens to ignite a new Balkan civil war.

[ProMKD]

What is this, where is this from? It sounds like a summary of the war, not really useful here.

Don't read too much into this BS about 'lawmakers in kosovo'. First of all, there is no such thing as law in kosovo. Secondly, albania is now in NATO and would never even entertain such requests, so why should Macedonia? Our government should only speak out when our nation or borders are threatened, like earlier last week when those comments were made from prishtina.

[Voltron]

Like 'Greater Albania' was never the agenda from the start.
It's already showing signs of happening with Kosovo, when will it be Western Macedonia's turn?

I read about this the other day in the Greek press. What I dont get is why dont the Serbs declare Republic of Srpska in Bosnia. They should officially split already.
If the Albanians in Kosovo think they can join Albania they should kiss Northern Kosovo good bye in the process. Thats where all the minerals and resources are, they are bluffing.

[Valmir]

I read about this the other day in the Greek press. What I dont get is why dont the Serbs declare Republic of Srpska in Bosnia. They should officially split already.

Not now, maybe after some decades cus now the world is pissed of with Srebrenica.

If the Albanians in Kosovo think they can join Albania they should kiss Northern Kosovo good bye in the process. Thats where all the minerals and resources are, they are bluffing.

Then Serbs and Montenegrins should kiss some other parts of their territory

[Niko777]

"...the minorities studied Macedonian language since first grade in the period from 1983 to 1995, ....in 1996.... community members decided to learn the Macedonian language from third grade."

Source: http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,15769...-4727-xml-mrss

So ethnic minorities in Macedonia were required to learn the Macedonian language from the first grade. It was in 1996 that they changed the law so that they learn it from the third grade.... today they learn Macedonian from the fourth grade. Who was in government during the change of law? Gligorov was president and Crvenkovski was Prime Minister. Thanks to both of them...

[Voltron]

Not now, maybe after some decades cus now the world is pissed of with Srebrenica.


Then Serbs and Montenegrins should kiss some other parts of their territory

Valmir, odds are the Serbs would win any conflict you present to them. Dont overestimate yourselves.

[Pavle Pijanica]

Gents, I've been reading your posts regarding this issue and I've just got one point to make. My ancestry goes back to Lerin and Polog in the
Mariovo province so I've always got my Macedonian hat on.

However, gruveski ancestry relates back to ovcarani. A village and essentially an area of land which had been occupied by Greeks for the last 100 years, and for these last 100 years it has been denied by the greeks for so long that Macedonians do not exist there. I remember in 2008 gruveski stated strongly regarding the Macedonian minority in Greece and how Greece has treated them so poorly for so many years. Now don't get me wrong here but if gruveski starts clamping down on macedonia's biggest minority and their rights as a minority, don't you think he'll look like a hypocrite to the rest of the world? Just a thought!!!

[Niko777]

However, gruveski ancestry relates back to ovcarani.

Actually Gruevski's ancestry is from Krushodari and Setina

A village and essentially an area of land which had been occupied by Greeks for the last 100 years, and for these last 100 years it has been denied by the greeks for so long that Macedonians do not exist there.

Macedonians do exist there and they are the strongest in Ovcharani

I remember in 2008 gruveski stated strongly regarding the Macedonian minority in Greece and how Greece has treated them so poorly for so many years.

All he did was send a letter. This was just politics so that he can score some points at home. As far as I am concerned Gruevski does not care how the Macedonian minority is treated.

Now don't get me wrong here but if gruveski starts clamping down on macedonia's biggest minority and their rights as a minority, don't you think he'll look like a hypocrite to the rest of the world? Just a thought!!!

What are you talking about? Albanians have all the human rights they need. What we are talking about in this thread is treason and violations to Macedonian sovereignty.

Human rights include the right to identity, right to learn your native language after the Macedonian language, and right to organize into cultural associations, etc.

Waving Albanian flags on government buildings are not human rights. Changing municipal borders to raise the Albanian population and impose the Albanian language on Macedonians are not human rights. Celebrating Kosovo's and Albania's independence day to fuel separatist feelings is not a human right. Drawing a map of greater Albania on buildings is not a human right. Building statues of people not related to Macedonia and naming schools after murderers from UCK and building mosques in every city without permits with money from Saudi Arabian extremists are not human rights.

[Niko777]

And unlike Aegean Macedonians, Albanians were never persecuted in Macedonia. Albanians have enjoyed human rights since 1944. Macedonia did not change their names or did not try to Christianize them and the Albanian identity was never threatened, it was protected. Macedonia has always protected the Albanians, their culture and language. If anyone does not agree, please show us proof where Albanians were denied to learn Albanian or were not allowed to call themselves Albanians.

And finally, Macedonians did not annex Albanian lands. Albania was the one that annexed Macedonian land along with 50+ villages along the Macedonian-Albanian border after 1913.

So please do not compare the Albanian minority with the Macedonian minority in Greece

[Risto the Great]

What are you talking about? Albanians have all the human rights they need. What we are talking about in this thread is treason and violations to Macedonian sovereignty.

Human rights include the right to identity, right to learn your native language after the Macedonian language, and right to organize into cultural associations, etc.

Waving Albanian flags on government buildings are not human rights. Changing municipal borders to raise the Albanian population and impose the Albanian language on Macedonians are not human rights. Celebrating Kosovo's and Albania's independence day to fuel separatist feelings is not a human right. Drawing a map of greater Albania on buildings is not a human right. Building statues of people not related to Macedonia and naming schools after murderers from UCK and building mosques in every city without permits with money from Saudi Arabian extremists are not human rights.

Exactly right.
Pavle, get off the grog.

[Brian]

I read about this the other day in the Greek press. What I dont get is why dont the Serbs declare Republic of Srpska in Bosnia. They should officially split already.
If the Albanians in Kosovo think they can join Albania they should kiss Northern Kosovo good bye in the process. Thats where all the minerals and resources are, they are bluffing.

Exactly right Voltron.
I've always hated the way people refer to Bosnia as if it's one place and always belonged to the 'Bosnians who are muslin' - fete accompli!

It is the Bosnia area and the Herzegovina area merged by Tito to form a republic within the Federation of Yugoslavia - it was Never just Bosnia and all belonging to one group ie 'Bosnians', that's why under Yugoslavia the republic was called Bosnia-Herzegovina and NOT just Bosnia. It's so much yummy to just swallow up someone else's land, re-name it and claim it's yours since God created it - something the Balkan neighbours are good at doing. Bosnia is a total artificially contrived fabrication by the West to keep tension in the area and support the Muslims (USA policy) - remember when all the parties (Serbia, Croatia and the "Bosnian Muslims") wanted to split Bosnia-Herzegovina along ethnic lines and negotiate a 'tit-for-tat' land swap for those villages that were away from the main bulk of land of their ethnic group? The USA forcibly put a stop to any splitting of Bosnia-Herzegivina and left a permanent tension in the area because the USA wanted to loot all the resources there and leave a weak easily manipulated puppet government.

In a practical sense splinting Bosnia-Herzegovina makes sense especially since there never really was a true Bosnian identity (Croatian/Dalmatian, Serbian, and Bosnian Muslim who I think are mostly converted Serbs?) but Kosovo was Serbian.

If the Serbians want to go down that line with Kosovo (like putting shit in your mouth) then they should grab every bit they can of those villages still holding out bravely AND ALSO those owned by Serbs but ethnically cleansed by the Albanians to maximise their portion.

ProMKD Post1716

Don't read too much into this BS about 'lawmakers in kosovo'.

Don't be such a denier. What do you think the merging of councils in Western Macedonia and Albanians buying up land is for??? Don't the Albanians say it (Greater Albania) to your face everyday?

First of all, there is no such thing as law in Kosovo.

It might be the law of the Mafia there but technically Kosovo is recognise by the USA and the West and a parliament does exists so even if they pick the village idiot with a ring in his nose to be the puppet, laws can be passed. And this does NOT sound good for Macedonia. I cannot understand this attitude in Macedonia that if the Albnians haven't actually said we ARE doing this or we HAVE DONE this it's like it doesn't exist or 'as if that would ever happen'.

Secondly, albania is now in NATO and would never even entertain such requests,

WTF??? What does Albania being in NATO have to do with or not entertaining the idea of 'Greater Albania' and securing most of, if not all of Kosovo with the future likelihood of Western Macedonia?

I have no idea what you are talking about, and I sometimes wonder if you (and RoM) do? It's all happening under your noses and Gruevski is helping to fund it. Think beyond today and this week - the Albanians plan in terms of decades beginning with the split from Yugoslavia. It's already more than 10 years since the conflict and is this thread not full of the Albanians' piece by piece actions of Albanizing Macedonia and then the next logical step to split?

so why should Macedonia?

I'm not saying Macedonia should entertain such ideas but should not ignore them less Macedonia be forced to entertain such ideas in the future.

Our government should only speak out when our nation or borders are threatened, like earlier last week when those comments were made from prishtina.

WTF?

Taka, kutejtesi - i Albancite sakkat mir - oti da ne, polesno e da ebis nekojgo koj ke ne se protivi.