Anybody here going to see Ceca :)

[julie]

mastika are you saying that people who do not support the framework agreement are ultra nationalistic and in the minority ? Do you support the framework agreement ? Do you get up and dance the hell ass zorba ? If by me not supporting the framework agreement and not paying to see a whore she married supporting the genocide of my people classifies me as one then good . Not just what she stands for as well but she is a whore . Shows the morality am sure if you have a sister or daughter you would be proud to have unscrupolous men jacking off in awe . For if you were not proud that would make you a hypocrite then . Go and enjoy yourself be proud to support the oppressors of your people may your daughter have the same fame and success . That is my example . By the way i am ultra nationalistic and spit on my oppressors not have wet dreams over them

[indigen]

Given that is more than the population of Prilep, I think you are mistaken.

I was thinking the same, Rogi, and it was wrong of me (I originally copy-pasted that number and I apologise for that,) to use the Wikipedia in the first place for "facts and figures". Given all the recent political trickery by the Grks and the buddies, e.g. the unproven claim that Bill Sarvinovski kissed the Grk flag, we need to beware of dodgy facts, figures and claims on the internet and in the media in general.

Prolet, did people have to pay to see the CW (Chetnik Whore) at the "Pivofest"?

[indigen]

The fact you keep insulting many Macedonians as 'Ramkovist zombies' etc. is quite offensive. And the fact that you keep attacking Macedonians who do not fit your ultra-nationalist mold for what you consider to be a Macedonian is also quite offensive.

It shows that you clearly are unable to understand the fact that not all Macedonians share the same minority perspective as yourself. It is a shame that those who disagree with you are subject to such slander.

Can you prove that the majority of Macedonians endorse or approve the capitulationist anti-Macedonian "Ramkoven dogovor"?

There is no need to attack people for doing little apart from enjoying themselves.

I am not a puritan but I do find that image quite offensive and who said anything about objecting to people having fun? Aren't the people behind those with ventialtor-painted faces having fun? Do you think the vast majority of Macedonians paint their faces like that?

FYI, revolutionary ideas ALWAYS start of as a minority view and, if successful, slowly become the dominant or majority view.

[Mastika]

mastika are you saying that people who do not support the framework agreement are ultra nationalistic and in the minority ? Do you support the framework agreement ? Do you get up and dance the hell ass zorba ? If by me not supporting the framework agreement and not paying to see a whore she married supporting the genocide of my people classifies me as one then good . Not just what she stands for as well but she is a whore . Shows the morality am sure if you have a sister or daughter you would be proud to have unscrupolous men jacking off in awe . For if you were not proud that would make you a hypocrite then . Go and enjoy yourself be proud to support the oppressors of your people may your daughter have the same fame and success . That is my example . By the way i am ultra nationalistic and spit on my oppressors not have wet dreams over them

Of course I don't support the agreement, nor do i dance the Zorba. My point is that viciously attacking people for listening to a style of music is overboard and shows how out of touch you seem when compared to people living in Macedonia, who listen to that type of music.

As for this thing about her being a slut, sure all Serb singers are whorish but i'm not aware of her specifically engaging in rampant sexual escapades. Maybe you are mistaking her with Severina (who had the sex tape), but who is apparently OK to listen to because she is Croatian and not Serbian, even though they are singing in the same language. Go figure.

Although I live in Australia, I never pretend like I know whats better for Macedonia then the people living in Macedonia. I for one won't be attacking people who live in Macedonia for what they do from my pedestal here in Australia. It is easy from stranstvo to criticise, and that is why I won't be partaking in such activities. You might consider yourself to be ultra-nationalist, but you too live in Australia, and in the end neither of us will decide the fate of Macedonia nor will anyone listen to us about what we have to say about it anyway.

[Mastika]

Can you prove that the majority of Macedonians endorse or approve the capitulationist anti-Macedonian "Ramkoven dogovor"?

No, because they don't support the Ramkoven dogovor, neither do I, but to constantly insult and attack people unfairly (in this case for having the national flag painted on their face!?) is clearly unjustified.

I am not a puritan but I do find that image quite offensive and who said anything about objecting to people having fun? Aren't the people behind those with ventialtor-painted faces having fun? Do you think the vast majority of Macedonians paint their faces like that?

FYI, revolutionary ideas ALWAYS start of as a minority view and, if successful, slowly become the dominant or majority view.

People have died fighting for the sovereignty and independance of our country under that flag, it is what we use to represent ourselves to the world on an international stage. although it isn't our first choice, it still demands some respect, and some respect to those Macedonian's who died fighting in the 2001 conflict so that it can be flown.

[julie]

mastika that flag was imposed on us as part of the framework agreement stipulations . It represents our docile acceptance of the agreement when we display it on our faces as indigen pic shows . I dont listen to croatian music either by the way .

[indigen]

No, because they don't support the Ramkoven dogovor, neither do I, but to constantly insult and attack people unfairly (in this case for having the national flag painted on their face!?) is clearly unjustified.

Constantly? Today is the first time I bring the painted faces in any discussion. :-)

People have died fighting for the sovereignty and independance of our country under that flag,

That is an apologist argument used as justification for supporting symbols of TREASON and CAPITULATION that I do not buy and has been discussed elsewhere (there is a thread titled "VENTILATOR" that can be read or revisited if you so desire) and no need to elaborate on that here.

Secondly, what reasons did the apologist have for the period between 1995 and 2001 then? :-)

it is what we use to represent ourselves to the world on an international stage.

And where on the international (in particular, sporting) stage are we represented (accepted) as Macedonia?

[Risto the Great]

People have died fighting for the sovereignty and independance of our country under that flag, it is what we use to represent ourselves to the world on an international stage. although it isn't our first choice, it still demands some respect, and some respect to those Macedonian's who died fighting in the 2001 conflict so that it can be flown.

Macedonians have died fighting under other flags as well. If any Macedonians died fighting for sovereignty and independence under the current flag, they should ask what kind of sovereignty and what kind of independence. If we are talking about the war of 2001, then they need to understand who the real enemy was. (It was the Macedonian and USA governments.)

Anyway, I think the issue for patriotic Macedonians is that supporting someone with obvious connections to a war criminal with negative aspirations to Macedonians is demeaning.

[Blagojce]

Guys can we see what is happening here, we're fighting over a singer who is coming to australia to have a concert and we are concerned about about macedonians attending.

what concerns me is how such an event, can start to split the community on here.

no one here has openly stated to be attending.

given the size of this backlash towards this type of music, why don't we hold a protest in-front of the place wherever she will be having her concert with banners and MTO emblems stating

'any macedonian that would pay to see that chetnik slut is a traitor'

now how many macedonians attending would actually join us here after making such comments.

music is music. we can fight all we want on here but we will never get anywhere. go to macedonia and state these ideas and see the reaction we will get.
i remember reading a post-war europe book and a good notion which stuck with me was 'you can be a patriotic german or partiortic frenchman'

the germans with their level of nationalism lost greatly after WW2, they thought of themselves as being superior to everyone and anyone (german) who did not follow their lead or showed resentment to the nationalistic ideas was shot dead.

i believe in macedonian nationalism but lets not start calling people traitors simply for listening to ceca. lets not say there are two types of macedonian people.lets not fragment the community anymore, we already have enough predavnici. greeks and albanian issues are at the forefront for us right now. if every person who had listened to music originating from a serbian artist then we would have very few macedonians left. not only that i cant tell the difference between a serbian, bosnian, croatian or montenegrin artist simply by listening to the pop lyrics, can anyone here?

i have no issues with who will be attending, i think being able to have bosnians, croatians, serbians, montenegrins, macedonians, albanians and even bulgarians in one room, enjoying just music and having a good time is something australia is all about.

[Prolet]

Blagojche, When Aca Lukas came here at least 30% of the people who went were Macedonians. I got no doubt that at least 20% will be Macedonians who will go and Watch Svetlana Ceca Raznjatovic, there will be Croats,Serbs and Bosnians too.

[Blagojce]

Blagojche, When Aca Lukas came here at least 30% of the people who went were Macedonians. I got no doubt that at least 20% will be Macedonians who will go and Watch Svetlana Ceca Raznjatovic, there will be Croats,Serbs and Bosnians too.

thats true, i even remember seeing photos on stavrevski's website, some with him and aca.

YouTube - Tose Proeski - Igri Bez Granici

[indigen]

that's true, i even remember seeing photos on stavrevski's website, some with him and aca.

VOTE MTO SERBOFILS [I won't label you Srbomani, not yet anyhow! :-)]

1. Prolet
2. Mastika
3. Blagojce (2 and 3 could alternate as far as I can see).

IMO, Vladika JOLE KAREVSKI (PETAR) IS A SRBOMAN and Stavrevski appears to be one of his henchmen and the two of you are regular readers, it would appear, of his trashy website. Birds of a (a srbofil) feather stick together.....haha.

[indigen]

Anyway, I think the issue for patriotic Macedonians is that supporting someone with obvious connections to a war criminal with negative aspirations to Macedonians is demeaning.

That is it in a nutshell, RTG!

[Bratot]

What if your fathers listen to Bjelo Dugme or your nephews have posters of Jelena Karleusha, are they srbomans as well?

I'm trying to distinquish these given etiquetes. of srbomans, bugaromans etc.
What about Simon Trpcevski, the pianist, should he refuse to play in countries members of EU/NATO because of their policy?

Should we also withdraw all the sportists playing in the Greek national leagues?

[Prolet]

Indigen, I got a feeling that you dont like me very much

Tose sung in Serbian and Croatian, even Karolina Gocheva sings Serbian songs.

Indigen, Here is even Naumche Petreski signing a song in Croatian.

YouTube - Tose Proeski- Nesanica

YouTube - Karolina Goceva - Noc

YouTube - Naum Petreski - MOJA ILI NIČIJA (HRF 2009)