Priest didn't let a baptism to take place in Voden

[johnMKD]

There is a whole generation of Macedonians who tried to name their children after their parents. This denial was so widespread that it is like asking me to prove the sky is blue.

The Greek church did a marvelous job of assisting with the eradication of the Macedonian identity. Which is quite amazing considering they still do not have canonical jurisdiction in the "New Territories" of Greece.

In fact the "New Territories" belong straight to the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Istanbul. I remember last year a broadcast from a Church in Veria or in Solun, where the Archbishop of Athens was there. Still at the end of the ceremony all priests present in the Church from the "New Territories" (and trust me they were quite a lot) were naming the Ecumenical Patriarch as their "primate" and even just having the guy in front of them.

Funny though Athenian media still refer to their Archbishop as "of Athens and of entire Greece", which obviously is a lie. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_...urch_hierarchy).

However, about the Macedonians wanted to give names to their children and the Church denying them- I had no idea, but it makes perfect sense and just fits with the rest of the puzzle.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I had no idea about such a thing. But I guess yes, they only allow Greek names in general. However, do you have any more info on this?

Joanche, see below:

http://www.florina.org/news/helsinki_watch.pdf

Law No. 87 of 1936 ordered Macedonians to change their names to Greek names.

Georgos Natsulis, thirty-nine, a worker in the fur business in Kastoria, told the mission:

My family's name was originally Nachev; they were forced to
change it in the 1920s to a Greek name. Two years ago I tried to
change it back. I went to the nomarch's office to do it; I was told
that it was a "foreign-sounding" name, and that I could not
change it. I didn't appeal the decision. In theory it is possible to
appeal such a thing, but I know from talking with others that
there is no way I could win. Even [rights activist] Christos
Sideropoulos won't try to go back to his Slavic name. Of course
there's no problem if you want to change your name from one
Greek name to another.

Asked by a member of the mission whether a local ethnic Macedonian
couple could give their child a Slavic name like Boris, a small group of men sitting in a coffee house in the village of Lofi laughed heartily. One replied:

You couldn't possibly do that. When a baby is born you take the
birth certificate without a name to the church and tell the priest
what you want the baby's name to be. The church accepts only
Greek names. So in order for the baby to be properly registered
with the government, you have to give it a Greek name.

Asked by Human Rights Watch/Helsinki whether parents would be
allowed to give their children Slavic names, the Greek Foreign Ministry replied:

Name-giving in Greece is, in essence, a private affair and the
state has no jurisdiction over it. The names of children are
chosen by the parents or the godparents and are sanctioned by
religious ceremonies (Christian, Jewish, Moslem). Those not
belonging to a religious denomination may have their children
named by a civic procedure. Only abusive names are excluded
by law to protect the child's personality. Consequently, names
such as [Boris] may be found, although rarely, among Greek
citizens.

However, when asked by the mission in Florina whether a child could be
named "Boris," Greek priest Father Irineos Hatziefraimidis said:

No one has ever asked that. We have a list of saints, and we give
the children names from that list, or sometimes historical
names like Pericles.

Racists.

No one has ever asked that? Is this guy in denial or what? Irineos sounds like another racist in black robes. Seems like an interesting way of getting around the matter, the law doesn't specifically prohibit non-Greek names, but the 'priests' on the ground level ignore such requests altogether.

[Komita]

Whats the problem with this?
The church did the right thing.

[Komita]

To be entirely honest, I wish some of the Church rules/laws you describe above were more so adhered to and respected by the Macedonian community in Australia, as they are in the Republic of Macedonia, and as they are by in the Greek Orthodox Churches in Australia. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I know I'm not the only 26 year old to share these views.

What do you mean that these rules arent respected in our churches in aus?
Btw, Is it true that in our australian churches the priests hold the services in the english language?

[Risto the Great]

What do you mean that these rules arent respected in our churches in aus?
Btw, Is it true that in our australian churches the priests hold the services in the english language?

Don't worry Komita, they will use serbian soon if Petar has his way.

[Komita]

Don't worry Komita, they will use serbian soon if Petar has his way.

A real disgrace is having services in english. Your sarcastic humor doesnt change it.

[johnMKD]

Joanche, see below:

http://www.florina.org/news/helsinki_watch.pdf

Racists.

No one has ever asked that? Is this guy in denial or what? Irineos sounds like another racist in black robes. Seems like an interesting way of getting around the matter, the law doesn't specifically prohibit non-Greek names, but the 'priests' on the ground level ignore such requests altogether.

Thanks for the info SoM.

It seems that everything is just part of the greater plan of eradicating Macedonian identity within Greek borders.

However, wouldn't it be possible and equally acceptable by Greece a hypothetical case where for example: a Macedonian takes his child to be baptised a few kilometres norther, i.e. within RoM, and therefore gives it a Macedonian name.

This also makes me think a little bit more in general. Can somebody give his child a Macedonian (or Greek or Russian or whatever) name in other Orthodox Churches or is it only a Greek fact?

Joanche

[Komita]

This also makes me think a little bit more in general. Can somebody give his child a Macedonian (or Greek or Russian or whatever) name in other Orthodox Churches or is it only a Greek fact?

Joanche

In most cases yes he can.

[Prolet]

They use Macedonian and Staro Slovenski jazik for liturgii, when there is a mixed marriage in a Macedonian Church or a Chirstening they do the service in Macedonian and English. Its only fair so the person who is not Macedonian and their family can understand what is going on.

[George S.]

they don't let people do what they want because they are fascists.What kind of soceity do we have when church & state turn against it's citizens?

[Risto the Great]

A real disgrace is having services in english. Your sarcastic humor doesnt change it.

Perhaps you should have a think about what a church really stands for Komita. As we head towards a 100 year old Macedonian Australian Diaspora, I am sure we will see more English spoken in Macedonian churches.

I am sorry about the sarcasm, but I will be honest and tell you that I find your affection for Orthodoxy OVER being Macedonian quite distasteful. You always seem to support Orthodox priests and "brothers" without question. I don't know where it stops but lets look at a few examples a little closer to test your faith:

- Greek priest insists you cannot name your child with a Macedonian name.
- Greek priest blesses Turkish muslim soldiers as they are about to fire upon Macedonians.

Are these OK with you? I know the priest is always right in your mind, but can you ever draw a line in the sand on some issues?

And while you are at it, tell me one example when Serbia has been good for Macedonia (church or state).

[Risto the Great]

This also makes me think a little bit more in general. Can somebody give his child a Macedonian (or Greek or Russian or whatever) name in other Orthodox Churches or is it only a Greek fact?

Joanche

Absolutely they can.
Look at the hypocrisy of the Greek church, antique pagan celebrated names are acceptable but Macedonian names are not. This phenomena is limited to Greece and defines Greeks in an unhealthy way.