Priest didn't let a baptism to take place in Voden

[johnMKD]

A more general topic, related to religion, as I have seen many of the people here are interested in theological discussions.

On 22th August a priest in Voden didn't allow for a baptism to take place due to the fact that the Godfather was not married in a Church, but in the Town hall of the city. The same guy actually was their best-man in another Church just a couple of months ago.

The fact was reported by the people that were guests to the Baptism and made its way to the Greek national TV channels, turning on a looong discussion.

The source is in only Greek; I can put it on though if you want.

What are your views and thought on this?

[UMDiaspora.org]

were they macedonian? source?

[johnMKD]

were they macedonian? source?

I don't know whether they were Macedonian or not, but maybe yes given the large percentage of Macedonians in Voden.

Source: http://tro-ma-ktiko.blogspot.com/2010/08/5_22.html (in Greek)

http://translate.google.gr/translate...08%2F5_22.html (rough translation in English)

[Rogi]

Was the Godfather baptised as a child?

[johnMKD]

Was the Godfather baptised as a child?

As far as I read in the comments of the article, yes he was.

[Bill77]

A more general topic, related to religion, as I have seen many of the people here are interested in theological discussions.

On 22th August a priest in Voden didn't allow for a baptism to take place due to the fact that the Godfather was not married in a Church, but in the Town hall of the city. The same guy actually was their best-man in another Church just a couple of months ago.

The fact was reported by the people that were guests to the Baptism and made its way to the Greek national TV channels, turning on a looong discussion.

The source is in only Greek; I can put it on though if you want.

What are your views and thought on this?

John, i would assume it was a Greek ceremony. I tend to find Pro Greek church's verry strict and plenty of laws where as Macedonians are more liberal with their laws. Example here in Australia, Greek babies are refused baptism if they did not have a Greek sounding name. Another example iv'e heard is where females were refused entry in a Greek church because they were wearing Pants which was deemed unlady like and they must wear a dress.

To answer your question, my view is, its unchristian to refuse gods people in his house regardless especially for such petty man made laws that i mentioned. They would have alot of explaining to do at the pearly gates....... Thats if they get there in the first place.

[johnMKD]

John, i would assume it was a Greek ceremony. I tend to find Pro Greek church's verry strict and plenty of laws where as Macedonians are more liberal with their laws. Example here in Australia, Greek babies are refused baptism if they did not have a Greek sounding name. Another example iv'e heard is where females were refused entry in a Greek church because they were wearing Pants which was deemed unlady like and they must wear a dress.

To answer your question, my view is, its unchristian to refuse gods people in his house regardless especially for such petty man made laws that i mentioned. They would have alot of explaining to do at the pearly gates....... Thats if they get there in the first place.

Indeed Greek Church tends to be very strict, and I don't know why. This thing about pants cannot be worn by women is common in monasteries in Greece.
Once I heard of a priest from the Lerin Metropolis that stopped a wedding because people were throwing rice to the couple...
And I guess I agree with you when you say that it is unchristian to refuse people in God's house... especially since this poor guy was already baptised.

[Rogi]

To be entirely honest, I wish some of the Church rules/laws you describe above were more so adhered to and respected by the Macedonian community in Australia, as they are in the Republic of Macedonia, and as they are by in the Greek Orthodox Churches in Australia. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I know I'm not the only 26 year old to share these views.

[johnMKD]

To be entirely honest, I wish some of the Church rules/laws you describe above were more so adhered to and respected by the Macedonian community in Australia, as they are in the Republic of Macedonia, and as they are by in the Greek Orthodox Churches in Australia. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I know I'm not the only 26 year old to share these views.

Rogi, I fully support you. I'm also a religious man. The difference in this case is the rules of the Church and the rules of God.

On one hand, this guy should have known better than to enter the Church to perform the Baptism while knowing that the rules were against him. On the other hand, God never gave such rules to people. It is the Church that invented them.

But in the end, we can either choose to abide by these rules or not. I've chosen to do so in my life. This doesn't mean though that I fully support all of them.

[Prolet]

When i went to the Jovan Bigorski manastir (Before it burned down) i had to go back to the car and put pants on coz they wouldnt let me in with shorts, this was in the middle of summer where the temperature was 35 degrees.

All the ladies had to wear a skirt and if they didnt have one, the people at the monastery had a box full of them so it was OK i guess. I know on the treti krak in Egejska Makedonija (Sveta Gora) no women can go there only men.

[Risto the Great]

I guess if we follow this case logically, then this man's marriage would not be recognised by the church but he surely would be recognised as an appropriate person.

Naturally if his BMW was donated to the priest, he would have been fine I would imagine.

On the other hand, God never gave such rules to people. It is the Church that invented them.

And the Church will continue to make up the rules for a long time yet.

If you are in a church, you must follow the church's rules. As long as the priest was following the church's rules correctly, it is what it is.

I wonder who created the rule about not allowing Macedonian names for children to be baptised in Greece. I also wonder how that was a church matter. I also wonder whether any Greek pricks (oops I mean priests) haven't burned in hell yet.

[johnMKD]

I guess if we follow this case logically, then this man's marriage would not be recognised by the church but he surely would be recognised as an appropriate person.

Naturally if his BMW was donated to the priest, he would have been fine I would imagine.
And the Church will continue to make up the rules for a long time yet.

If you are in a church, you must follow the church's rules. As long as the priest was following the church's rules correctly, it is what it is.

This is what matters here, I agree.

I wonder who created the rule about not allowing Macedonian names for children to be baptised in Greece. I also wonder how that was a church matter. I also wonder whether any Greek pricks (oops I mean priests) haven't burned in hell yet.

I had no idea about such a thing. But I guess yes, they only allow Greek names in general. However, do you have any more info on this?

[Risto the Great]

I had no idea about such a thing. But I guess yes, they only allow Greek names in general. However, do you have any more info on this?

There is a whole generation of Macedonians who tried to name their children after their parents. This denial was so widespread that it is like asking me to prove the sky is blue.

The Greek church did a marvelous job of assisting with the eradication of the Macedonian identity. Which is quite amazing considering they still do not have canonical jurisdiction in the "New Territories" of Greece.

[Onur]

The Greek church did a marvelous job of assisting with the eradication of the Macedonian identity. Which is quite amazing considering they still do not have canonical jurisdiction in the "New Territories" of Greece.

Because Greek church is the heart and soul of Greek policy. They are fully integrated into the Greek politics. They interfere with every educational, cultural and political decisions in Greece.

Greek Priests are even doing blessing by sprinkling holy water for opening of a new building as a shopping center or a new road in Greece. So, when i see stuff like that on tv news, i see that Greece as no different than a medieval theocratic state.

[makedonin]

Because Greek church is the heart and soul of Greek policy. They are fully integrated into the Greek politics. They interfere with every educational, cultural and political decisions in Greece.

Onur, it is more accurate if we say that the Greek state is based on the Church fundaments. With out the Greek Church, there would have been no Greek state at first place.

All those Vlachs, Arvanites, Macedonians and others who were adherent to this Church united as one nation to build new state which never existed before.

One good point of what evil the Church System have done to the Macedonians and their cause, considering the Exarchist and Patriarchist division of Macedonia.

Greek Priests are even doing blessing by sprinkling holy water for opening of a new building as a shopping center or a new road in Greece. So, when i see stuff like that on tv news, i see that Greece as no different than a medieval theocratic state.

Everything that brings money. No different than other Christian or Moslem or any other priests.

Religion is the best business. They earn money selling hopes and sowing fear.

Hot air for bilion of dolars.