Macedonian Gypsies (Romani)

[Phoenix]

if they don't like it today and they have voiced on many occassions in Macedonia that they don't than you must stop. They are Romi, they refer to themselves as Romi and you should respect that. If a Roma mate of yours says Prolet you can call me ciganin than fine , but most don't want to be called that.

...its a point lost on most people, education in aspects of what exactly constitutes discrimination and harrassment is needed before peoples behaviour and outlook is modified...

[Prolet]

Mastika, Slav Macedonian is a made up name did the Greeks call us that 50 years ago? They started calling us that once we became independent.

Ask your father,grandfather how they called them.

[Mastika]

Jankovska, No its not but thats a made up word incited to cause racism this is their name its who they are.

The Vlasi are also called Cincari does this mean they should be offended if somebody calls them Cincars? Like i said these names have long histories they are not made up to cause racism. They are not segregated, bashed,arrested just because of who they are and their race.

Prolet, I will give you an example of a similar case to your own. Historically, a number of different words/terms have been used to describe Indigenous Australians incluing the "natives", "coons", "abos", "boong" etc. They are all offensive. Aboriginals once upon a time called themselves "Abos", however does this give you/anyone the right to use the word in 2010?, Absolutely not. In our era this is unacceptable.

If Vlasi dont want to be called Cincari then we have to respect their decision and not call them this. It is there right to determine their own name.

After all of the hassle people have gone through getting others to call them Macedonians and getting them to call Macedonia by its proper name, I would have thought that people would take their own advice and call others what they want to be called.

[Jankovska]

Jankovska, No its not but thats a made up word incited to cause racism this is their name its who they are.

The Vlasi are also called Cincari does this mean they should be offended if somebody calls them Cincars? Like i said these names have long histories they are not made up to cause racism. They are not segregated, bashed,arrested just because of who they are and their race.

No it isn't, coz they call each other Niger. Cigani is used in the same way and that is why the Roma in Macedonia want to move away from that name. It's associated with travelling people (most Roma don't travel these days) and troublemakers. So if someone wants to be called by a name that makes them happy you should call them that.Afterall we Macedonians should know what it means to be called by your rightful name, a name that makes you happy and proud.

[Phoenix]

Mastika, Slav Macedonian is a made up name did the Greeks call us that 50 years ago? They started calling us that once we became independent.

Ask your father,grandfather how they called them.

prolet, what fathers and grandfathers called them doesn't make it right...infact thats the root of the problem, that these attitudes are so deeply rooted in our/their society...

[Prolet]

Calling someone a Tsintsar would be deeply offensive

Are you serious?

Its actually a Vlach word for starters.

Julie, So lets all take offense then if we are called Macedonians

[Serdarot]

Mastika, pls donīt take that "brainwashing" offensive or personal. maybe some Gjuptin told you that "gjuptin" and "gjupci" is offensive, but trust me dude, 30 years ago no Gjuptin was offenced if you called him Gjuptin.

Also 40 and 50 years ago.

How come sudenly it is offensive term?

Brainwashing, on such level, you can not even imagine

It is easy to brainwash complete Nation(s) and Religion(s) , people with high education as well as people with low or no education.

You only have to have the money and some basic knowledge of Freud, Bernays etc

[julie]

Prolet you dribble utter rubbish and bullshit. Gypsy - derogatory. Macedonian - race and ethnicity
Sometimes I think the boys are too hard on you, now I am positive they are not.
How rude.

[Mastika]

Are you serious?

Its actually a Vlach word for starters.

Julie, So lets all take offense then if we are called Macedonians

The origins of any word/term is irrelevant. If the term is offensive, and you dont want to offend, then you need to stop using it.

[Prolet]

Jankovska, What do you think of that girl who was upset because she couldnt steal? She looked 14 years old.

Mastika, You see Macedonia is a country thats been around for thousands of years it wasnt found and formed 200-300 years ago like Australia and USA. Its not like these people migrated yesterday they have been around for so long that America and Australia wernt even on the map. We all know eachother, we've lived together for so long and now you are here giving me a lesson on how we should call them when we've lived together for over 1000 years? You can say that in Australia or USA where there are 170 different nationalities and races that emigrated 30-40 years ago but not to people who have been living in Macedonia for much longer.

[julie]

prolet - ti si serbche ili grche ili bugarche
ajde be, shto si, srbomanche?

How do you like it. You are a pig

[Boge]

prolet, what fathers and grandfathers called them doesn't make it right...infact thats the root of the problem, that these attitudes are so deeply rooted in our/their society...

Shit...!!! So you're not the pig headed racist chavka who grovels to tinkachi after all.

[Jankovska]

True but 50 years ago the Macedonians in Greece were called Greek and they still are. We don't like it and they don't like it. They may have accepted it, some of them haven't. The reality is they want to be refered to as Macedonians. Majority of Roma want to be refered to as Roma. We shouldn't have a problem with that, because they are people same as us and deserve respect. Basic human rights, the right to be called what you want, the right to be who you want to be. Fifty years ago Roma in MAcedonia lived much worse than they do now, they could have simply be terrefied to object to being Cigani. Or we could have been very arogant not to listen to what they want to be called. We shouldn't be. Basic human rights must be respected no matter koi luge se vo prasanje.

[Mastika]

Mastika, pls donīt take that "brainwashing" offensive or personal. maybe some Gjuptin told you that "gjuptin" and "gjupci" is offensive, but trust me dude, 30 years ago no Gjuptin was offenced if you called him Gjuptin.

Also 40 and 50 years ago.

How come sudenly it is offensive term?

Brainwashing, on such level, you can not even imagine

It is easy to brainwash complete Nation(s) and Religion(s) , people with high education as well as people with low or no education.

You only have to have the money and some basic knowledge of Freud, Bernays etc

I agree with what you are saying. In the past the term Roma didnt exist/wasn't widely used, and more people called them Gypsies or Cigani. However, Serdar, we live in 2010. We are not living the 60s. We must call people terms which are acceptable for our time.

[Prolet]

Prolet you dribble utter rubbish and bullshit. Gypsy - derogatory. Macedonian - race and ethnicity
Sometimes I think the boys are too hard on you, now I am positive they are not.
How rude.

Come on Julie dont be like that, why do we need to walk on egg shells seriously? You have been very good to me the last thing i want to do is upset you.