my iGENEA test

[tchaiku]

Bronze Age Dalmatians diverge genetically from Slavic Dalmatians (Croats).
Bronze age Dalmatians are closests to Northern Italians (their historical neighbours).
This male sample plots similar as the other Bronze Age Dalmatian (woman I3313):


Eurogenes K15 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 23.44
2 West_Med 22.65
3 Atlantic 22.42
4 East_Med 15.28
5 West_Asian 8.93
6 Baltic 4.91
7 Eastern_Euro 1.65
8 Red_Sea 0.72
9 Amerindian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Italian 6.76
2 Portuguese 8.96
3 Spanish_Galicia 9.36
4 Spanish_Extremadura 9.87
5 Spanish_Cataluna 9.96
6 Spanish_Murcia 10.16
7 Tuscan 10.54
8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 10.91
9 Spanish_Andalucia 11.83
10 Spanish_Valencia 12.28
11 French 12.71
12 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 12.77
13 Spanish_Cantabria 13.24
14 Spanish_Aragon 14.36
15 Southwest_French 15.29
16 Greek_Thessaly 16.34
17 Italian_Abruzzo 16.42
18 West_Sicilian 16.96
19 South_Dutch 17.54
20 West_German 17.65

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.9% North_Italian + 16.1% West_German @ 5.97
2 88.7% North_Italian + 11.3% Orcadian @ 6.02
3 90.2% North_Italian + 9.8% West_Norwegian @ 6.09
4 87.6% North_Italian + 12.4% Southwest_English @ 6.14
5 80% North_Italian + 20% French @ 6.17
6 89.1% North_Italian + 10.9% Southeast_English @ 6.24
7 90.9% North_Italian + 9.1% Norwegian @ 6.25
8 90.3% North_Italian + 9.7% North_Dutch @ 6.26
9 90.7% North_Italian + 9.3% West_Scottish @ 6.29
10 86.2% Portuguese + 13.8% Armenian @ 6.31
11 90.8% North_Italian + 9.2% Irish @ 6.33
12 91.8% North_Italian + 8.2% Swedish @ 6.34
13 85.3% Spanish_Galicia + 14.7% Armenian @ 6.35
14 91.2% North_Italian + 8.8% Danish @ 6.36
15 75.2% North_Italian + 24.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 6.38
16 88.7% North_Italian + 11.3% South_Dutch @ 6.43
17 76.7% North_Italian + 23.3% Portuguese @ 6.5
18 92.4% North_Italian + 7.6% North_German @ 6.51
19 84.1% Spanish_Cataluna + 15.9% Armenian @ 6.51
20 55.2% Spanish_Galicia + 44.8% Tuscan @ 6.54


Another one:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian-North 3.09
2 Italian_North 5.35
3 Kosovar 6
4 Corsican 6.22
5 Provancal 7.13
6 Romania 7.99
7 Swiss 8.93
8 Portugese 9.11
9 Bulgarian 9.23
10 Montenegrin 10.04
11 Gagauz 10.09
12 Iberian 10.36
13 Macedonian 10.74
14 Spaniard 11.06
15 Greek_North 11.44
16 Greek_South 11.89
17 French 12.41
18 Greek_Center 12.61
19 Serbian 12.76
20 Italian-Center 13.38


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.7% Spaniard + 18.3% Georgian_Imereti @ 1.36
2 61% Kosovar + 39% Bulgarian @ 1.37
3 79.8% Spaniard + 20.2% Georgian_Laz @ 1.58
4 64.8% Kosovar + 35.2% Macedonian @ 1.7
5 63.4% Kosovar + 36.6% Gagauz @ 1.8
6 78.8% Spaniard + 21.2% Georgian @ 1.8
7 81.8% Spaniard + 18.2% Abhkasian @ 1.83
8 54% Basque + 46% Greek_Azov @ 1.92
9 65% Greek_North + 35% Basque @ 2.02
10 82.8% Iberian + 17.2% Abhkasian @ 2.2
11 63.7% Kosovar + 36.3% Montenegrin @ 2.24
12 90.8% Italian-North + 9.2% British @ 2.31
13 85.7% Italian-North + 14.3% French @ 2.32
14 80.1% Iberian + 19.9% Georgian @ 2.33
15 91.3% Italian-North + 8.7% Orcadian @ 2.33
16 91.3% Italian-North + 8.7% CEU @ 2.38
17 87.9% Italian-North + 12.1% German-South @ 2.4
18 91.9% Italian-North + 8.1% Welsh @ 2.41
19 77.9% Italian-North + 22.1% Provancal @ 2.43

[Stojacanec]

You know who you are? So, who are you? Give us the short answer.

I am Macedonian. Next question...

[Karposh]

...The old administrators and the few left contributors (e.g. Carlin and Kaprosh) could play this role.

On behalf of Carlin and myself, thanks for the nomination and support...Much appreciated.

I can also help, mostly with tidying things up, but as you can see I’m not a contributor, I can only participate in dialogue and provide info.

No offence Amphipolis but a couple of quotes immediately come to mind: "Trojan Horse"; "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts"...

[Spirit]

Actually if your new Government really wanted to annul the Agreement that would be funnily interesting as it would embarrass the new Greek government that also claims to be against it. Theoretically, the Agreement would be easily annulled leading to a status quo ante. Yet, you wouldn’t be in NATO, as your President states in your post at another thread.


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Once The Republic Of Macedonia is in NATO and hopefully reverts to it’s rightful name there is no mechanism for it to be kicked out of NATO

[Amphipolis]

Gocka was right you aren't here to have a discussion but to humiliate and incite ignorance. I actually thought you were a normal greek person one able to have a normal conversation with. Although few I have met some, but you keep just antagonizing.

I’m a Greek person alight, certainly not a normal one.

For what its worth I'll answer your question; I am a Macedonian. You know that too. And unlike you my ancestors didn't have to cross the Bosphorus from Anatolia to settle in Macedonia, They are the real Macedonians, indigenous to Macedonia put there by god.

OK, that doesn’t agree with the Prespa Agreement. It’s not stated clearly, but I guess it implies you were not put by God, but came walking with the Slavic descent.

By the way, since this is a DNA thread, the (uncommented yet) DNA statistics of post#263 DO support your repeatedly stated claim that you are rather linguistically Slavicized and not Slavic in blood.

I don't fallow to closely, but I know that VMRO-DPMNE has stated it in press conferences. Not what I said they can do but just that they will reverse it.

Actually if your new Government really wanted to annul the Agreement that would be funnily interesting as it would embarrass the new Greek government that also claims to be against it. Theoretically, the Agreement would be easily annulled leading to a status quo ante. Yet, you wouldn’t be in NATO, as your President states in your post at another thread.


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[Amphipolis]

You shouldn't; prespa doesn't have jurisdiction on Macedonians in the diaspora. Furthermore the point that Macedonians will just decide to forget who they actually are because of a political agreement that is illegal is hilarious. We know who we are and we will never forget it, we have for centuries and we will continue to.

You know who you are? So, who are you? Give us the short answer.

Don't be surprised if it's annulled next year. It is anti-Macedonian and had 36% voter turnout so it is not law binding under legal laws it had to hit the 50% mark to be official. VMRO-DPMNE will reverse it and have many options whether they use the constitutional court or pass legislation, it will be over.

To be honest I didn't really know there is such a realistic and believable option. Does VMRO-DPMNE really claim that, are they clear about it?

[Amphipolis]

Rubbish. The sizeable bunch of racist maggots amongst your lot is obsessed with such people. Your presence here is an example of that. You can falsely claim your focus is solely on official policy, but even that doesn't reflect the complete reality on the ground and it certainly doesn't serve as the standard followed by most Macedonians across the world. On a political level, as far as the two countries are concerned, your side won, for now. On a cultural level, as far as your efforts to disconnect us from our history, your side lost. Forever. It wasn't even in contention. You don't seem to grasp the fact that despite what our treacherous politicians may have promised you, the Macedonians will never forsake their history. You can go anywhere in the world where my people live and most will rightfully regard the ancient Macedonians as part of their heritage and continue to do so. That will never change.

My opinion is the exact opposite. I don’t feel we won in the political side (it’s a compromise with several give and take), but we certainly won in the cultural side of the dispute (concerning Ancient Macedonia as referred in the agreement). I agree with you that the agreement doesn’t cover individual actions/feelings or the work of thinkers, scientists or philosophers but we never really minded about those. Actually, there were times I expected such issues could not be part of the agreement.

You're confusing politicians with the population in general. Further, you're discounting the thousands of people who live outside of Macedonia and are not represented by such politicians.

No offence, but we don’t see a threat in the diaspora.

You also have the sense that we don't exist, per your earlier statement among others. Both points are equally moronic. We don't need to have hundreds of people posting on the forum. We have thousands of readers each day. This place remains a wealth of information for Macedonians and others with a desire to learn more about my people. The MTO will never die, unlike the many other forums it has outlasted. That I can guarantee.

I think you should give some space to three or four new moderators/administrators so that there is some functionality. As someone who has been banned and re-registered more than 20 (?) times I can tell that registration of new members does not work fast, or it does not work at all. That explains why we often see new members registered, but they never eventually appear or post here.

The old administrators and the few left contributors (e.g. Carlin and Karposh) could play this role. I can also help, mostly with tidying things up, but as you can see I’m not a contributor, I can only participate in dialogue and provide info.

The vast majority of Macedonians even the most fervent supporters of SDS, of Zaev, and even of the Prespa agreement, still don't believe what the Greeks hope they do. They are just being the typical duplicitous morons they always are. They are playing a political game to get something that they want in the end (EU entry). If the Greeks really believe that they convinced everyone to not be Macedonians anymore well then we can sell them a nice tower in Paris. Its short sighted and pathetic in many ways, but its nothing more than a con job on our end.

That’s very optimistic… and cheap.

At least hundreds of thousands if not a couple million. More Macedonians live outside Macedonia than in it, so right of the bat these politicians are not even close to representative of all Macedonians. Then considering SDS only represents about half of Macedonians in Macedonia, of which almost half are not ethnic Macedonians to begin with. So how many Macedonians do these politicians represent? 10%

That is also optimistic. Some Greek nationalists may say the same thing in Greece, but reality proves both of you wrong. The agreement DID pass, it doesn’t seem that it will be annulled in visible future and the politicians behind it DID take the political cost which was not huge.

You can't remember them giving a fight?
Greece objected to name in 1992 at UN
Greek trade embargo 1995
multiple greek vetos on NATO entry over name

ring a bell?

Just remember history wasn't debated at the Prespa Agreement, it was the fear of irredentism.

Agreements come and go, hopefully this will be one of them.

OK I see what you mean. Most Greeks see these actions as simple pressure, there was a small cost for Greece but we wouldn’t call it a fight or a sacrifice. This also explains why some politicians (e.g. Bakoyianni) believed Greeks would never compromise. There was no carrot at the end of the agreement.

History IS included in the Agreement. The Agreement seems strong for the next decades. You are right, Agreements don’t last for centuries.


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[Stojacanec]

Your countrymen ARE short-sighted idiots, but who isn’t? My countrymen are the same.

Will our cowards win? I can’t remember them giving a fight.

You can't remember them giving a fight?
Greece objected to name in 1992 at UN
Greek trade embargo 1995
multiple greek vetos on NATO entry over name

ring a bell?

Just remember history wasn't debated at the Prespa Agreement, it was the fear of irredentism.

Agreements come and go, hopefully this will be one of them.

[Gocka]

On a cultural level, as far as your efforts to disconnect us from our history, your side lost. Forever. It wasn't even in contention. You don't seem to grasp the fact that despite what our treacherous politicians may have promised you, the Macedonians will never forsake their history. You can go anywhere in the world where my people live and most will rightfully regard the ancient Macedonians as part of their heritage and continue to do so. That will never change.

Amen.

The vast majority of Macedonians even the most fervent supporters of SDS, of Zaev, and even of the Prespa agreement, still don't believe what the Greeks hope they do. They are just being the typical duplicitous morons they always are. They are playing a political game to get something that they want in the end (EU entry). If the Greeks really believe that they convinced everyone to not be Macedonians anymore well then we can sell them a nice tower in Paris. Its short sighted and pathetic in many ways, but its nothing more than a con job on our end.

You're confusing politicians with the population in general. Further, you're discounting the thousands of people who live outside of Macedonia and are not represented by such politicians.

At least hundreds of thousands if not a couple million. More Macedonians live outside Macedonia than in it, so right of the bat these politicians are not even close to representative of all Macedonians. Then considering SDS only represents about half of Macedonians in Macedonia, of which almost half are not ethnic Macedonians to begin with. So how many Macedonians do these politicians represent? 10%


што го трпиш ова копилево. тој е тука не да дискутират ама да понижават. то сакат да се разправаш, тоа му дават задоволство. Зато не му го давај тоа задоволство.

.

турско копиле смрдено

[Soldier of Macedon]

We never really thought such people exist or worried about them. We used to focus on the official policy only.

Rubbish. The sizeable bunch of racist maggots amongst your lot is obsessed with such people. Your presence here is an example of that. You can falsely claim your focus is solely on official policy, but even that doesn't reflect the complete reality on the ground and it certainly doesn't serve as the standard followed by most Macedonians across the world. On a political level, as far as the two countries are concerned, your side won, for now. On a cultural level, as far as your efforts to disconnect us from our history, your side lost. Forever. It wasn't even in contention. You don't seem to grasp the fact that despite what our treacherous politicians may have promised you, the Macedonians will never forsake their history. You can go anywhere in the world where my people live and most will rightfully regard the ancient Macedonians as part of their heritage and continue to do so. That will never change.

That doesn’t seem to be the case. While SDSM and Syriza are warmer about the Agreement, no one ever worried that the “unwilling” VMRO and New Democracy will reverse or annul it. That’s because they were never really fanatic or patriotic enough. This is, more or less, the agreement they had been bargaining for decades.

You're confusing politicians with the population in general. Further, you're discounting the thousands of people who live outside of Macedonia and are not represented by such politicians.

I often have the sense you’re comfortable with the forum’s death.

You also have the sense that we don't exist, per your earlier statement among others. Both points are equally moronic. We don't need to have hundreds of people posting on the forum. We have thousands of readers each day. This place remains a wealth of information for Macedonians and others with a desire to learn more about my people. The MTO will never die, unlike the many other forums it has outlasted. That I can guarantee.

There are ways to revive it if you’re interested.

Better the Turkish bullet than the Greek pen.

[Amphipolis]

Not a single one of my kinsmen who acknowledges the ancient Macedonians as part of their heritage and who passes on that legacy to their family has changed their perspective as a result of the above.

We never really thought such people exist or worried about them. We used to focus on the official policy only.

All your side has is the signature of a moron who would sell his own daughter for the right price. It may make you feel good, but in the hearts and minds of most Macedonians across the world it means absolutely nothing aside from being an empty gesture by a treacherous politician. Rest assured, all free-thinking Macedonians with even an ounce of patriotism will continue to view the ancient history of our fatherland as part of the overall Macedonian story. Nothing will ever change that, least of all a traitor trying to appease the descendants of settlers from Turkey who arrived in Macedonia less than a century ago.

That doesn’t seem to be the case. While SDSM and Syriza are warmer about the Agreement, no one ever worried that the “unwilling” VMRO and New Democracy will reverse or annul it. That’s because they were never really fanatic or patriotic enough. This is, more or less, the agreement they had been bargaining for decades.

That's your evidence that it is having an effect? You're a clown. People come and go, the core group remains. When we can be bothered, we will write about it. Frequency will naturally fluctuate when certain topics have been thoroughly discussed in the past. We're not mindlessly programmed the way your ancestors were.

Well, actually the situation here is a bit of your fault too. Sometimes you come back, but you’re basically gone. I often have the sense you’re comfortable with the forum’s death. There are ways to revive it if you’re interested.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Did you mean "object"?

I meant what I wrote.

The Prespa Agreement does provide Greece full ownership of ancient Macedonian legacy; this DOES seem to have an effect.

Not a single one of my kinsmen who acknowledges the ancient Macedonians as part of their heritage and who passes on that legacy to their family has changed their perspective as a result of the above. All your side has is the signature of a moron who would sell his own daughter for the right price. It may make you feel good, but in the hearts and minds of most Macedonians across the world it means absolutely nothing aside from being an empty gesture by a treacherous politician. Rest assured, all free-thinking Macedonians with even an ounce of patriotism will continue to view the ancient history of our fatherland as part of the overall Macedonian story. Nothing will ever change that, least of all a traitor trying to appease the descendants of settlers from Turkey who arrived in Macedonia less than a century ago.

For instance, everyone has vanished from this forum, it’s been some time since I last heard of scientific activities the type of Boshevski and Tentov, etc.

That's your evidence that it is having an effect? You're a clown. People come and go, the core group remains. When we can be bothered, we will write about it. Frequency will naturally fluctuate when certain topics have been thoroughly discussed in the past. We're not mindlessly programmed the way your ancestors were.

[Amphipolis]

Enjoy it while it lasts you maggot.

My countrymen might be short sighted idiots, but you cowards will never win. You don't magically erase peoples minds because you add a prefix. They still believe they are Macedonian, you still have countless Macedonians living in Northern Greece who will always be in touch with their true roots.

You will never replace us, you will never fully own the Macedonian legacy. We will be a thorn in your hairy Turkish ass for eternity.

SUCK IT!

Your countrymen ARE short-sighted idiots, but who isn’t? My countrymen are the same.

Will our cowards win? I can’t remember them giving a fight.
The prefix will have an effect (both domestically and internationally), but I remind you the Prespa Agreements does recognize them as Macedonians (so why wouldn’t they still believe it?).

I think Rainbow Party does approve the Prespa Agreement and tries to see the positive side, but one can never be sure as (for alleged activists) they are not very active. Well said about the people who remember their true roots (language IS revealing), but, sorry to inform you, they are as countless as… pandas.

Who’s willing to replace you? The Prespa Agreement does provide Greece full ownership of ancient Macedonian legacy; this DOES seem to have an effect. For instance, everyone has vanished from this forum, it’s been some time since I last heard of scientific activities the type of Boshevski and Tentov, etc.

[sydney]

Enjoy it while it lasts you maggot.

My countrymen might be short sighted idiots, but you cowards will never win. You don't magically erase peoples minds because you add a prefix. They still believe they are Macedonian, you still have countless Macedonians living in Northern Greece who will always be in touch with their true roots.

You will never replace us, you will never fully own the Macedonian legacy. We will be a thorn in your hairy Turkish ass for eternity.

SUCK IT!

Hilarious Gocka, summed it up perfectly.

[Risto the Great]

The Severedonians will still vote for the Greeks and Albanians in the next Eurovision. Oh dear, I can't even be sure who I hate more nowadays.