Sarkozy to Ban Islamic Face Veils

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  • Prolet
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2009
    • 5241

    Sarkozy to Ban Islamic Face Veils

    Now others will follow suit, lets hope this law spreads to Australia and Macedonia.

    Wednesday, 21 April 2010

    French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Wednesday ordered legislation that would ban women from wearing Islamic veils that hide the face in the street and other public places.

    In seeking to forbid the garment from public view, Sarkozy defied the advice of experts sought by the government who warned that such a broad ban risked contravening France's constitution.
    Such a measure would put France on the same track as Belgium, which is also moving toward a complete ban in a similar reaction as Islamic culture has come in conflict with native European values. Sarkozy has repeatedly said that such clothing oppresses women and is not welcome in France.

    Government spokesman Luc Chatel said after Wednesday's weekly Cabinet meeting that the president decided the government should submit a bill to parliament in May on an overall ban on burqa-like veils.

    "The ban on veils covering the whole face should be general, in every public space, because the dignity of women cannot be put in doubt," Chatel said.



    The decision to seek a full ban, rather than a limited ban, came as a surprise. After a Cabinet meeting just a week ago, the government spokesman announced a decision for legislation that bans the veil but takes into account conclusions on the matter by the Council of State, France's highest administrative office.

    The government had sought the council's opinion to ensure a law would pass constitutional muster. The Council of State advised that a full ban would be "legally very fragile." A six-month parliamentary inquiry also concluded that a full ban would raise constitutional issues, as well as enforcement problems.

    "It's a transgression, an aggression even, on the level of personal liberty," said Abdellatif Lemsibak, a member of the National Federation of Muslims of France. "The Muslims have the right to an orthodox expression of their religion ... it shocks me."

    France is a firmly secular country but has western Europe's largest Muslim population, estimated at some 5 million. France worries about clashes in values as well as about a spread of radical Islam. Authorities widely see the veil in light of gender equality and security issues.

    In neighboring Belgium, a similar initiative for a ban on full veils in public places, including in the streets, is expected to become law in July.

    Muslim leaders in France say that the face-covering veil is not a religious requirement of Islam but have cautioned against banning the garment.

    The government spokesman said the French president considered that burqa-style veils that hide the face, such as niqabs, "do not pose a problem in a religious sense, but threaten the dignity of women."

    France outlawed Muslim headscarves and other "ostentatious" religious symbols from classrooms in 2004 after a marathon parliamentary debate and, "we are acting in the same way today. We have decided to legislate," Chatel said.

    Numerous school girls wore headscarves in class, but only a tiny minority of women wear the all-covering veil. Nevertheless, debate on the question of whether a law is needed and how far it should reach has continued for nearly a year.

    Muslim leaders say that the debate itself has stigmatized Muslims, as has a national debate on the French identity.

    Even within Sarkozy's own conservative UMP party, the question of forbidding face-covering veils in streets is divisive.

    One of the party's leading lawmakers, Jean-Francois Cope, had already filed his own preliminary bill for a global ban on the garments — which should be superseded by the government's. Cope called Sarkozy's decision "wise" and said the government needs to move rapidly "so the French know that, on this point, we are truly determined."

    Cope, speaking to reporters, suggested the law should be passed by the end of July — but followed by a six-month consultation period before it is applied.

    Sarkozy insisted that "everything should be done so that no one feels stigmatized," Chatel said without elaborating.

    The French parliament is already slated to discuss a nonbinding resolution on May 11 that sets out political principles, including the need for women to keep their faces uncovered.

    МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.
  • osiris
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 1969

    #2
    a fully support him lets not forget that turkey also has banned it for over 80 years now.

    Comment

    • Onur
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2010
      • 2389

      #3
      This was even late decision for France...

      This humiliating clothing style for women is not related with Islam at all. Its a lie created by radical groups.




      France outlawed Muslim headscarves and other "ostentatious" religious symbols from classrooms in 2004 after a marathon parliamentary debate and, "we are acting in the same way today. We have decided to legislate," Chatel said.

      Numerous school girls wore headscarves in class, but only a tiny minority of women wear the all-covering veil.

      All these stuff outlawed in Turkey at 1924 and stays like that since then. We partly took this firmly secular laws from France but it looks like France relaxed on these rules laters unlike Turkey. There was some demands for relaxations of secular laws in Turkey recently but after strong opposition to that, they stay quite for a while and our current government party lost most of its support because they were eager to change some of secular laws for that and they will go away probably at next elections. There was several protests against the decision of government party at the streets here , like 100s of women tear headscarfs to pieces to protest them.



      BUT the thing is, i hope they don't do any discrimination between Christians and Muslims on that. They should outlaw all extreme religious stuff not only Islam`s.
      Last edited by Onur; 04-21-2010, 08:46 PM.

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13676

        #4
        I think it is a logical and sound decision, which is quite suprising coming from Sarkozy.
        Originally posted by mail2onur
        i hope they don't do any discrimination between Christians and Muslims on that. They should outlaw all extreme religious stuff not only Islam`s.
        Onur, I welcome your progressive views, you have certainly been a very informative member since you came to the MTO. Can you tell me what are some of the things that Christians (radical or otherwise) may wear that would fit into this category?
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • Mastika
          Member
          • Feb 2010
          • 503

          #5
          Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
          Onur, I welcome your progressive views, you have certainly been a very informative member since you came to the MTO. Can you tell me what are some of the things that Christians (radical or otherwise) may wear that would fit into this category?
          I dont know about Onur, but this is "Christian" attire is to extreme for me! lol


          Hopefully this law will be taken up in Macedonia as well. Wearing a samija is apart of both Christian Macedonian and Muslim (Albania/Torbes/Turk etc.) cultures, however the recent introduction of burqa's is NOT apart of any of the culture's present in Macedonia and thus should be forbidden.

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15661

            #6
            I propose the all-covering veil is restricted to the ugly chicks of all religious persuasions.

            I will now retreat gracefully from this conversation.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • Daniel the Great
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2009
              • 1084

              #7
              Some more news on this, like France Belgium is going to try pass a legislation to ban the berqa (face veils).
              It looks like other countries will follow.
              I think it is a real problem for identifying people but we must keep in mind it is there religion to wear the face veil which will probably cause some problems in the Muslim community.
              In saying that i hope they find a solution to this


              ______________________
              Macedonian and proud
              Last edited by Daniel the Great; 04-22-2010, 07:41 AM.

              Comment

              • Onur
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2010
                • 2389

                #8
                Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                Onur, I welcome your progressive views, you have certainly been a very informative member since you came to the MTO. Can you tell me what are some of the things that Christians (radical or otherwise) may wear that would fit into this category?

                Thanks SOM.

                I was mainly talking about anti-Islam extremist cults/sects like the ones in USA.

                Also the wearing huge cross, head scarfs, burqa should be outlawed in schools/politics. People who does that just announces their side/position to the public. This causes discrimination and separation between people and poisons innocent mind of kids. People should focus to the common elements which unites them, not to divisive stuff like these. These things always leads problems between people.


                For example, I saw this scene on tv channels 1000s of times;
                Greek cleric dressed up in black with a huge beard and giant cross on his hand talks about politics, standing by Papandreu and making announcement about Turkey. I mean, WTF is this?? This is sooo medieval. Is this guy a cleric or politician? How come religion and politics can come across?? Politics is just a game of devils and the war-field of materialistic interests. On the other hand, religion has no relation whatsoever with materialistic world.

                Its the politicians who does that. They wanna influence and manipulate people`s mind by using religion. I don't consider that Greek cleric as a man of belief either. He is just one of the greedy politicians. In my eyes, he is not a religious man anymore if he enters the field of devils(Politics). I just believe in god but neither of religion myself but i think these clerics might be even more sinner than me because i am not the one who tries to manipulate people by abusing religious symbols for his own materialistic and political greed.


                Tbh, I think secularism laws should be in every country in the world. For own good of people. Religion and politics cant be together in any way.


                P. S : All of these comments i made here was the vision of "Ataturk" at 1924 and i fully agree to his views of secularism.
                Last edited by Onur; 04-22-2010, 08:11 AM.

                Comment

                • Onur
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2010
                  • 2389

                  #9
                  Originally posted by daniel the great View Post
                  I personally disagree with this new law for everyone is entitled to there human rights.
                  I know it is a big problem with identifying people but it is apart of there religion and that should not be debated about in any way.


                  Violating the dignity of human being in humiliating manner cant be considered as a part of "human right" and clothing like Burqa is a disgrace for all humanity. I am living in a country which consists %95 of Muslims and i am telling you these type of clothing is not related with Islam. This is a lie.

                  Do you think these women wear cloths like that as their own preference? They wear cuz someone forces them or because they raised with a false belief of Burqa is the only "proper" clothing for them.


                  Check my message about "Iran`s Islamic revolution" and tell me if am wrong about that and all Iranian women wear Burqa cuz they want to...;

                  http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=48329#post48329
                  Last edited by Onur; 04-22-2010, 08:05 AM.

                  Comment

                  • osiris
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 1969

                    #10
                    i must concour with som onour i enjoy your posts and the spirit they are meant.

                    onour greece according to some of its best and bravest intellectuals is still a theocratic medieval political culture and not the self proclaimed bastion of liberal democracy.

                    Comment

                    • julie
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2009
                      • 3869

                      #11
                      Ditto, I have learnt from onur's posts and have enjoyed them too.

                      RTG - restricting the burkha for all ugly chicks - what about ugly men?

                      Incidentally the shamiya the Macedonian women wear in church as a sign of respect, diehard catholic women wear a white lace one in church
                      it is considered disrespectful in any religion for a woman to show her bits, for want of a better word in a church

                      Onur, religion and politics have always gone hand in hand - an example is Henry the 8th I think who wanted to divorce his wife Catherine to marry Anne Bolyne in England.
                      The split in the catholic church happened when he pronounced himself as head of the new Anglican church.

                      I agree politics should not be entered into with religion, but almost all wars , senseless as, have been started in the name of God
                      "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                      Comment

                      • Daniel the Great
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2009
                        • 1084

                        #12
                        Originally posted by mail2onur View Post
                        Check my message about "Iran`s Islamic revolution" and tell me if am wrong about that and all Iranian women wear Burqa cuz they want to...;

                        http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=48329#post48329

                        Wow mail2onur i saw those photos and i couldn't believe it, it must be newly imposed to the Muslim woman.
                        Plus they look so much happier in the older photos without the burqas so i understand what you are saying.


                        ______________________
                        Macedonian and proud
                        Last edited by Daniel the Great; 04-22-2010, 09:41 AM.

                        Comment

                        • osiris
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 1969

                          #13
                          its because the veil was introduced to islam by the eastern romans from tsarigrad.

                          Comment

                          • Mastika
                            Member
                            • Feb 2010
                            • 503

                            #14
                            Originally posted by daniel the great View Post
                            Wow mail2onur i saw those photos and i couldn't believe it, it must be newly imposed to the Muslim woman.
                            Plus they look so much happier in the older photos without the burqas so i understand what you are saying.
                            I remember watching a program which commented on the same thing happening in Cairo, Egypt as well. Whereas in the 1970s women were eager to wear western clothes and dresses it now seems like they (the 1970s generation) are wearing very conservative clothes and imposing this on their children.

                            Comment

                            • osiris
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 1969

                              #15
                              i saw the same program mastika, but i am actually old enough to have witnessed the change and it came predominately because

                              1 western powers are in denial bout their role in ripping of the islamic oil bearing nations

                              2 western intelligence agencys and politicians supported the most conservative and reactionary religious movements and governments in the islamic world to oppose the secular ones that we in the main anti western and socialist.

                              its not just the taliban that is a western creation.

                              Comment

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