It's all Greek to me: The etymology of Vasileus and Vasil

[Philosopher]

Vasil is a male name.

So the meaning would be either "one in authority, in power" or "a male in power, in authority," i.e. a powerful man. Meaning, a ruler.

And since Monarchy was the government of the time, and since the word vasil is in the singular, it means a single male person in power or authority. This definition is the very meaning of a "king."

If Vasil was imported to Macedonia from another language, let's say Greek, ask yourself: how is it possible that Vasileus, in Macedonian, literally means "a male in power, in authority," and in Greek, it has no inherit meaning?

[Ellinas]

you misunderstood me

What does 'Va' literally mean?

and what does 'Sil' literally mean?

Also how do I say 'a male in power' or 'one in power' or 'in power' in Macedonian?

[Philosopher]

My friend,

I think it is the other way around; you misunderstood me.

"Va" means "in"; "Sil" means "power, authority"; literally, when combined, means "one (a male) who is in power, in authority."

Sort of like "Geo" earth; and "ergos" worker; "Earth worker, Farmer." In other words, "a person (a male) who works the earth."

Get it?

There are different ways to express a person in power in Macedonian; just like there are different ways to express the same thing in almost in any language.

[Ellinas]

OK well I'm no professional in this field (neither are any of us on this forum) so why dont you try and find a linguist on the net or where ever, ask them and see what they say?

no offense but I think you will probably end up disappointed because there will be a simple explanation

[Delodephius]

Argument from authority is a false argument.

[Dejan]

Va Sil = In Power

[Pelister]

So, could we conclude that Greek etymology of the term is unclear.

And could we say that Slavic etymology of the term, has been established.

I would like to add that "Silenus" is also a Slavic deity - referring to a "Powerful Spirit of the Woods" or thereabouts.

This discussion reminds me of the term "Olympus" [English]. According to N.G.L Hammond the term cannot be explained by Greek etymology, but curiously it appears as a personal name of a Phrygian Princess - so go figure. Who knows what is going on here. The mythology of how "Olympus" was born or brought about is very, very interesting - it relates to the Light in the Eyes of Zeus and its a real stretch but "Olympus" and "Lamba" are close, right??

[Svoliani]

It turns out, that, "va" in Vasil, in Macedonian, means "in" and therefore the meaning of Vasil is "one who is in power or authority," as in one who is ruling--like a king or potentate.

So it looks like you have been disproved, once and for all?

Admit defeat!!!

HEHEHE Admit defeat LOL

I got 3 sources from books and you got some slovakian guy who helped you find out what Va means!! yeah you win

In Russian its V pronounced Vuh not Va , now you were asked how do you say IN po nashi , now please we are waiting.
And its not someone in power , this Vsil would come out meaning ' in strength or in power' . A strong person would be Silny , like Silny chelovek. What you have done is found a coincidence and trying to make something out of nothing.
Why wouldnt Vasil be used for King then? Why do you use Kareol??
What will be your next project? Olympus? Hey it can come from Golym (big) and Bog (god) , hey there were big gods living up there!!!!!

Does Kliment have an inherit meaning?? it comes from the Latin Clemenus (meaning simply mild or gentle).
Thank god Alexander and Filipos have inherit meanings in Greek, now i can breath easier. But hey you can work something out with that, try Alezhan and Dar , that mean anything in your language??
Keep em coming Juicy

[osiris]

svoliani you still dont get it do you.

ancient greek boroowed many words from other langauges, along with cultural concepts and scientific knowledge, according to the ancinet greek authors themselves from other nations including egypt and the pelasgians.

one of those words is vasileus, another is thalassa.

in ancinet greek they did not mean anything but have since their inclusion into ancient greek now mean king/ruler and sea.

in macedonian talas mean wave

vo or va mean in

and sila means power.

make what you want from it, have a greek pizzza and coffee while you ponder it.

[MapleLeaf1]

Until you find out what the Va means in your language

Who's language is that Vancho(po Nashi)? Slovak's?
Or did you mean Macedonian?

[Philosopher]

HEHEHE Admit defeat LOL

I got 3 sources from books and you got some slovakian guy who helped you find out what Va means!! yeah you win

In Russian its V pronounced Vuh not Va , now you were asked how do you say IN po nashi , now please we are waiting.
And its not someone in power , this Vsil would come out meaning ' in strength or in power' . A strong person would be Silny , like Silny chelovek. What you have done is found a coincidence and trying to make something out of nothing.
Why wouldnt Vasil be used for King then? Why do you use Kareol??
What will be your next project? Olympus? Hey it can come from Golym (big) and Bog (god) , hey there were big gods living up there!!!!!

Does Kliment have an inherit meaning?? it comes from the Latin Clemenus (meaning simply mild or gentle).
Thank god Alexander and Filipos have inherit meanings in Greek, now i can breath easier. But hey you can work something out with that, try Alezhan and Dar , that mean anything in your language??
Keep em coming Juicy

People like you give true Hellenic people, like Spartan, a bad name. I don't know whether you are stupid or stiffnecked--perhaps a bit of both? Part of the problem is that your English is awful; and the other part is that you don't make any sense.

The three sources you gave before did not address what "Va-sil-eus" means in Greek. It only repeats the same errors, namely, the word means King and that it is "a Greek name." Doesn't it bother you to hold down the truth? How do you sleep at night? Why can't you admit that the word "Basileus" is imported to Greece? This name is not a native word in Greece. No part of "Vasileus" means "king."

Why are you bringing in Russian? We are not Russian; we are Macedonian. The two languages are not identical.

The Macedonian word "Va-sil" means "in power or authority," as "one in power or authority." Vasil is a name meaning this; the fact that you don't understand this is your problem, not ours. "Va" means "in."

Are you actually arguing that the word "Va-sil" in Macedonian is just chance? That somehow or another a "Greek" name, which was imported to Macedonian, has inherit meaning in that language, but no inherit meaning in Hellenic? What? confused:

Let me explain it to you again. If "Geo" in Greek is "earth" and "ergos" is "energy" or "work," then the word must mean "earth worker," or "Farmer." Right?

Now, ask yourself: what does "farmer" mean? Does not farmer mean "one who works the earth?" If so, this is the definition of farmer. It is self defining. In English, for example, there are two different ways to express this. The word "farmer" is a word that means "one who works the earth."

In Macedonian, "Va-sil" means "one (a male) in power or authority." By definition, the word "king" or "ruler" or an "official" means "a person in power--in authority."

Just because there is another word for "king" in Macedonian, doesn't mean that Vasil can't mean King. Again, you don't understand etymology and lingustics. When the ancients created a word, they did so by defining or explaining something in terms of action.

You take it for granted that when society began, that people a prior had a definition for "king" or "farmer" or "fisherman" or etc. All these words in modern language have their own phrases for; back then, they did not. Languages begin by explaining something. When the ancients tried to create a word for fishing, for example, they would bring certain letter combintaitons together to explain the action. However, as society advanced, they developed a new word expressly for fishing.

In the case of a "king," primitive people, when trying to formulate a name for a king, used letter combinations to explain and define the action of a king or ruler.

In this sense, before one can call someone a "king," one must first define what a king is, what he is not, what his actions are, and what his social role was; in this light, the ancients came up with "Va-sil," a title or name for someone who is in power or authority, whether ruler, king, monarch, etc.

Just because there is no evidence of anyone using "vasil" as a title for king, like "Vasil Marko," doesn't mean that Vasil doesn't mean king.

In English, one can explain "king" in terms of a "monarch," a "potentate," a "king," "a desport," "ruler," etc. However, none of these words explain to someone what they mean; they are not self defining.

However, the English statement "a person who is in power or authority," explains the definitin of a king or ruler.

Actually, the etymology of the "Greek" word "Odyssey," the title of the book by Homer, is of Macedonian etymology.

NOT HELLENIC!!!

[Delodephius]

Actually the phrase "va sil" grammatically means "in power" hence it is an adjective. It later becomes a noun, it acquires the meaning of "a ruler", but as itself it has no gender, hence it is both "a queen" and "a king". Once it is established as a noun "vasil" changing the zero morpheme into -a changes the meaning from a male into female. But in it's original adjective phrase form has no gender.

[Pelister]

Actually the phrase "va sil" grammatically means "in power" hence it is an adjective. It later becomes a noun, it acquires the meaning of "a ruler", but as itself it has no gender, hence it is both "a queen" and "a king". Once it is established as a noun "vasil" changing the zero morpheme into -a changes the meaning from a male into female. But in it's original adjective phrase form has no gender.

That's a pretty insightful observation.

[Philosopher]

Actually the phrase "va sil" grammatically means "in power" hence it is an adjective. It later becomes a noun, it acquires the meaning of "a ruler", but as itself it has no gender, hence it is both "a queen" and "a king". Once it is established as a noun "vasil" changing the zero morpheme into -a changes the meaning from a male into female. But in it's original adjective phrase form has no gender.

We are comparing apples and oranges.

I'm arguing that the name "vasil" is a male name. In other words, "vasil" is given to male babies. Thus, in this sense it means "a male in power." I don't dispute that the name can be a femine one.

That's not the point, however.

[Svoliani]

" Tsarigrad is an Old Church Slavonic translation of the Greek Vasilias Polis " this taken from good old wiki since you used it too.


So a word that is supposedly non Greek in origin , and not only that possibly some kind of Ancient Macedonian, years later had to be translated into something totally different in the Macedonian language!!!

Simply amazing , i mean they should of just called it Vasilgrad !!


Philosofies, stick to breaking down names like Snezana and Zlatko , leave the Greek ones alone will you.