Macedonians and their 'slave' names, time to change?

[Pelister]

In the past the traditional determinants were:

1. Name of the father (^Double names as Nikola Pande^)
2. Name of the Village or Region: Kliment Ohridski
3. Name of the particular (family)proffession: Advokatov, Daskalov, Gramatikov, Furnadziski, Kozarov, Svinjaroski or Zogravski.

4. Not so often but we can find also some nicknames (nagaleni ili smeshni iminja) such as Abdal-oski, Bilmez-ovski or Alabak-ovski where Abdal/Bilmez/Alabak derives from the turkish meaning - stupid, ignorant - Budala and some like Govedarovski, Babackovski, Dupevski, Prdlevski, Gazlevski or Kiselov

How Macedonians name eachother

Most Macedonians have probably been conditioned to believe that there should be only one way we pass on our names. The example set for us in the Western tradition is that we pass on the last name of our paternal father.

This has led many Macedonians to ask where the "ski" came from, or where the "ov" came from.

Maybe there was more than one way in the Macedonian tradition to name a person or family and that there were many ways someone got their name. This is a fascinating area that really hasn't been explored in any detail.

Family Name

I've been told that a family can take on the name of its Paternal Grandfather or Greatgrandfather (If still alive) and that this name keeps on changing so that the oldest living Paternal relative is usually the name the rest go by. But I have the feeling that this is an "internal" classification so that Macedonians in the village knew who belonged to who. Pando is the first name, and Trajko is the name of his living grandfather, so Pando Trajko is his name.

Origin of Birthplace

In the same tradition I know many Macedonians who go by only a first name, e.g., Stojan, Pavle, and their last name corresponds to the village or place they are from, i.e, Stojan "Berovets". This is another way Macedonians are named.

Profession

There are other ways Macedonians name each-other, through the name of a profession. Hence, Mitre "Vlaho". Everyone knew his first name, but he got the name "Vlaho" because his profession was a shephard. Again, there were "internal" and specifically local Macedonian classifications.

Clan

At the same time I have some personal experience in my family of us having a "Clan Name". I am certain that this is not a common thing among Macedonians, but it does exist. So someone could have a first name of Stojanka and attach a Clan name to it - "Donevci" or "Buderci" or "Manushi" (all of which are Macedonia clan names).

Last names

In many cases last names have been recorded and survived and have always been the same generation to generation.

[Risto the Great]

Let us not forget the "in" endings.
I believe they are reserved for the domazets.

[Pelister]

Let us not forget the "in" endings.
I believe they are reserved for the domazets.

Or the "da" endings, e.g., Bojda

I know some Croatians whose last names end with 'in' but I havn't come across a Macedonian with this ending yet.

[Risto the Great]

Altin, Radin ... a couple of well known Macedonian names.

[Rogi]

Pelister,

I think clan names (known in Macedonian as the 'soj') are actually quite common and they go back quite far.

Though, this may perhaps be dependent on the region within Macedonia.

I know that from both sides of my family there is a 'clan name' or 'soj', which is no related at all to the family surnames.

I know this to be the case for many, if not most, of the families in regions of and surrounding Prilep, Bitola and including Mariovo. Many families don't keep track of their family history though, so today they may not be aware of the original 'clan' (soj) name.

[Pelister]

Altin, Radin ... a couple of well known Macedonian names.

Ah, thats right. I forgot about Michael Radin.
I have relo's who keep their Greek sounding names to make a political point.

[indigen]

Let us not forget the "in" endings.
I believe they are reserved for the domazets.

I am no expert (and we do need some here on mto) but 'in' also can be derived from a son adopting his mothers first name (e.g. Dosta = Dostin) This may happen by choice for various reasons - to honour a single mum, father was a bastard and deserted the family or just was not worthy of having his name carried, etc.

As Antonio Miloshoski owes much of his political career advancement to Dosta Dimovska, IMO, he should change his surname to Dostin and show his tataromanski gratitude

BTW, does anyone know the origin of the surname Tatarchev? :-)

[Pelister]

Pelister,

I think clan names (known in Macedonian as the 'soj') are actually quite common and they go back quite far.

Though, this may perhaps be dependent on the region within Macedonia.

I know that from both sides of my family there is a 'clan name' or 'soj', which is no related at all to the family surnames.

I know this to be the case for many, if not most, of the families in regions of and surrounding Prilep, Bitola and including Mariovo. Many families don't keep track of their family history though, so today they may not be aware of the original 'clan' (soj) name.

I wasn't aware of that. Can you give an example with the "soj" ending.

The clan name we go by sounds alot like "Belushi". But its "Manushi" only it was never Albanian.

[Rogi]

Golevci and Mindevci

[Risto the Great]

"ci" makes a great deal of sense to me as an ending. It forms the core of our everyday parlance.

[sf.]

OK, I'm going to absolutely butcher this topic, but here it goes.

A couple of different and interesting points have been raised.

The origin of 'ov' suffix. Under the Ottoman Empire, Macedonians led a fairly isolated life. So names were formed locally, by local customs - some structures were preserved from earlier times, while others were derived later. Some common elements would've been present across the regions based on interaction, common traditional heritage and language. I think the 'ov' suffix came into play with the expansion of the Exarchate. Can someone confirm this? It would make sense, because here we have a movement that is widespread and can promote a uniform ideology.

The 'ski' suffix would've also been politically imposed in the post-war period.

Our names and some of the variations suggested in this thread are based on possesive pronouns:

moj - mine
tvoj - yours
negov - his
negovo - its
nejzin - hers
nash - ours
vash -yours (pl)
niven/nivni - theirs

So, it implies possesion or belonging to. Most likely after a paternal member 'ov' or maternal 'in.'

The 'ci' suffix implies plural. So a whole family can be referred to as a collective noun??? based on their name.


I think 'ski/ska' are elements that create the adjective modifier. Meaning: from; relating to; of the type; like (noun).

So you have eg:

Ohridski - from Ohrid; or in the style of Ohrid; or like Ohrid
Detski - childlike; from child/children
Germanski jazik - language from Germany; language used by Germans
Trajkovski - related to trajkov; from trajkov etc.


That's my dumb understanding of it. Don't laugh.

[Po-drum]

The 'ski' suffix would've also been politically imposed in the post-war period.

Maybe it's politically imposed after Mcedonia became federal unit in Yugoslavia but I can't agree it's political invention like bulgarians says. This is an archaic suffix and there are two main areas in Macedonia where he was originaly present. These are two of the three most extensive areas in Macedonia. One of them is Mijachija in the western part, the second is Maleshevija on the east.

...За Западна Македонија, а особено кај Мијаците се сочувани најархаични библиски презимиња со наставката -ски. Суфиксот -ски е најтипичен македонски патронимичен суфикс, но не и единствен...
source: А.Матковски, „За историското потекло на македонските имиња и презимиња“

[El Bre]

som i agree with you one hundred percent i first brought this up in the late 80s and said imagine the impact it could have if 1000 macedonian turned up at the relevant government office in melbourne on the same day, it would make every news service in the nation.

there are 2 things i have been pushing the above and an advertisement in the papers in melb and sydney

do you have a baba and dedo
do you come from macedonia
come and celebrate our culture and history
at macedoniantruth.org
a service for nashi by nashi.

i am prepared to make 100 dollar contribution right now to place an ad in a melbourne paper.

A slight alteration Osiris, hope you don't mind.

do / did you have a baba and dedo? did your giagia and papous speak a language that wasn't greek? ever wonder why?

[osiris]

its just a suggestion el bre i think its fundamentallly sound and would work and i hope we can test it here in melbourne. i agree with your alterations, it may also bring arvaniti prosfigi and vlasi to our site.

[osiris]

back to names.

surnames are a relatively new phenomena in most nations. in macedonia all the suffixes denote ownership of sorts, in the case of ev and ov it relates to names trades nicknames etc.

popov petrov delchev etc etc

the ski was mainly used to denote a relationship to a geographic name. makedonski solunski and in russia nevski

wheras n meant maternal maichin

rogi the tsi or ci on the end is like the s on the end of english surnames its not part of the name its used to speak about the people of that name in the plural

there are other names that were and are used that do not have any suffix.