Macedonia to rename itself Sparta

[Risto the Great]

What a bizarre thought.
Imagine if we all held hands and decided to pick a new name for our country and ethnicity. Imagine if it was Sparta and we described ourselves as Spartans. How would Spartans feel about this? Would this be supported in the world community?

In what way would this be different to the Macedonian hullabaloo?
In what way would it be the same?

Obviously I hope that Spartan responds. But I would like to know the thoughts (as repulsive as the idea is) from the Macedonians and other Greeks as well. Please ignore the issue of whether we want to change our name, but whether any parallels or distinctions should or can be made.

[Royal Hellas]

From Greeces' perspective, you have two Greek states here, this will conclude in a civil war.

[Pelister]

From the Macedonian point of view, Modern Greek invaded, and now currently occupy traditional Macedonian lands.

[Spartan]

What a bizarre thought.
Imagine if we all held hands and decided to pick a new name for our country and ethnicity. Imagine if it was Sparta and we described ourselves as Spartans.
1.How would Spartans feel about this?
2.Would this be supported in the world community?
3.In what way would this be different to the Macedonian hullabaloo?
4.In what way would it be the same?

1.We would immediately dust off our breastplates and helmets and march north!
Just kidding, In all seriousness Risto, I/we would feel as our identity was being stolen, similar to how Macedonians(either side) feel, the exact same actually.

2.I think the Spartans would be supported due to the fact that Macedonia is far away from Sparta. It would be hard for a people to persuade anyone that they are "true Spartans" when they come from a region 1000 miles away.

3. I think the main difference would be the proximity of the states .In regards to the Macedonian issue, you have ROM and Greek Macedonia right beside each other, and because of this, confusion can be created. Borders have been redrawn over and over in a short span of time, the people near the borders speak both language on both sides, some used to live on one side and now they live on the other.This makes it hard, for the outsiders to determine who is who, and what is what(mish-mash).
If ROM wanted to change to Sparta, it would be difficult to have this idea widely accepted due to the differences of the cultures. I mean, we are distinctly different from northern Greeks,nevermind Macedonians!
Plus the lands are too far away from one another too have a dispute. All one would have to do is look at a map, and they would see Sparta and see Macedonia. In the Macedonian issue hwever, looking at a map could confuse people even more.

4.The only way it could possibly be similar is that some of the books Ive read theorise that Spartans and Macedonians were part of the same tribe. The ones who moved south became known as the Dorians, and the ones who stayed put as the Macedonians. If this is true, then Spartans and Macedonians could claim the same ancestry, and perhaps make claims on each other today.
This is very far fetched, I admit. I dont actually believe two peoples in 2008 can make claims on each other based on the theoretical events/origins of 1000 b.c.

My above answers are as hypothetical as the question, so please dont crucify me guys

[Soldier of Macedon]

Hey Slavalbaniartan, have you addressed the issue of your false article title about Macedonian quandry? Why did you deliberately mislead readers with a false title?

[Risto the Great]

Fair answers.
1. Perhaps I should have chosen Athens .... they are less prone to violence.

2. You and I both believe that Sparta (originals) would have world acceptance due to geography. I do believe the arguments in relation to antiquity would come out soon thereafter as well. Is the world ready for someone to self-determinate their identity in this fashion? I do not think so and imagine it would have been laughed off the world stage. Macedonians have not been laughed off the world stage, there is more to this than "picking a name".

3. Geography, geography. I think the geography clearly makes this a very different example. It is also different in the sense that there really is not any room for doubt over the distinction. If we look at the Macedonians, we see ethnic Macedonians having the "upper hand" in relation to the name issue as they have utilised it longer and more meaningfully than any Greeks have. This idea of adopting Sparta would be very different because the name would have no relevance to the people whatsoever.

4. From the Greek perspective, I am sure they believe it is EXACTLY the same scenario. And base this entirely on a connection with antiquity that supposedly ethnic Macedonians do not have. I think many of your Greek friends will be unable to distinguish between the 2 examples.

I am sure you agree it was a silly concept to deal with. But I see the denial of the Macedonian ethnic identity equally silly. And am trying to understand why we even have a problem given the fact that most of the Greek population in Northern Greece are mostly imported Christians from afar as well as various ethnicities that have only very recently evolved into what is now a modern Greek.

[Risto the Great]

Hey Slavalbaniartan, have you addressed the issue of your false article title about Macedonian quandry? Why did you deliberately mislead readers with a false title?

I believe Spartan did address the issue.

[Royal Hellas]

But I see the denial of the Macedonian ethnic identity equally silly. And am trying to understand why we even have a problem given the fact that most of the Greek population in Northern Greece are mostly imported Christians from afar as well as various ethnicities that have only very recently evolved into what is now a modern Greek.

Although you claim a Macedonian ethnic identity, there are countries, one of which is Greece who denies that ethnicity. They do not accept such an ethnic identity as they view Macedonians as ethnic Greeks.

The imported Christians you keep harping about are Eastern ethnic Greeks.

The evolution process you mention, surely applies to your people as well, or are you exempt from these processes?

[Spartan]

Hey Slavalbaniartan, have you addressed the issue of your false article title about Macedonian quandry? Why did you deliberately mislead readers with a false title?

My response from the actual thread where the slip-up occured.

Guys, I copy/pasted the link from another forum. I did not even read the url-link. My deepest apologies.In my defense Risto and El Bre seemed to have missed it as well. It was not intentional I assure you. I got banned from Maknews and I couldnt figure out why, now I know.

I have always adhered to the rules of this forum. I have referred to you guys as Macedonians and nothing else. The Url link is not my words, although in retrospect, I should have been more thourough in checking out what I post from other sources. I can assure you this will not happen again.

Next time I copy/paste anything I will be very careful to read everything. In this instance I read only the article, and missed the link. Again I apologise.

It is up to the administrators now, but by banning me, you would lose one of few Greeks who is opened minded to your cause. I feel I have built up a decent reputation since joining, and have engaged in some good conversations with Risto, El Bre and others. Please dont let one slip up ruin the reputation I have built up thus far.

Thank you for letting me respond before you ban me

Spartan

And here is Ristos responses to mine-

Spartan.
Thank God you said what you did. I was hoping this would be the case ... You are right, I also missed the reference in the link.
There is hope for Greeks all round the world!
I will be proposing a very bizarre hypothetical about Sparta in a few moments and I really need your input.
pozdrav

His response was impeccable. I cannot lump Spartan in the same group as many other Greeks in this (or other) forums Dejan. Certainly not at this point.

Dont ever refer to me as that bullshit you called me above ever again.
Ive referered to you gus as Macedonians and nothing else since joining, I have been respectful in all my posts to everyone.
Make sure you know whats going on before you blindly throw insults where they dont belong.

__________________

[Risto the Great]

Although you claim a Macedonian ethnic identity, there are countries, one of which is Greece who denies that ethnicity. They do not accept such an ethnic identity as they view Macedonians as ethnic Greeks.

The imported Christians you keep harping about are Eastern ethnic Greeks.

The evolution process you mention, surely applies to your people as well, or are you exempt from these processes?

The majority of Greeks in Northern Greece are imports. You might want to call them Eastern ethnic Greeks. I will be generous and call them a separate ethnicity that almost made it ... like the Cypriots ... related to Greeks but the very different circumstances they endured make them very different but related to the Greeks. Not unlike the Latin countries.

I will agree with you though .... lets call them Eastern ethnic Greeks .... who reside in Macedonia. You cannot call them ethnic Macedonians can you? How many titles can you bestow on these people ... here let me have a go:

Eastern Ethnic Greeks who are ethnically Macedonians who are ethnically Greek? Is that it? ummm, really?

Macedonians as ethnic Greeks is different from Ethnic Macedonians. Wake up and smell the geography.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Although you claim a Macedonian ethnic identity, there are countries, one of which is Greece who denies that ethnicity. They do not accept such an ethnic identity as they view Macedonians as ethnic Greeks.

The imported Christians you keep harping about are Eastern ethnic Greeks.

The evolution process you mention, surely applies to your people as well, or are you exempt from these processes?

Enough with your propagandist lies you idiot, this will be your last warning. We do not "claim" a Macedonian identity, we are the Macedonian identity.

Those Eastern "ethnic" Greeks you keep harping on about are imported Asians of the Christian faith, most of whom could not speak Greek when they arrived in Europe, this is a fact. Being Orthodox Christians does not qualify them as "ethnic" Greeks.

Enough with your bullshit lies, I am becoming tired of reading the same garbage on every thread. Macedonians are Macedonians, Greeks are Greeks, end of story.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Dont ever refer to me as that bullshit you called me above ever again.
Ive referered to you gus as Macedonians and nothing else since joining, I have been respectful in all my posts to everyone.
Make sure you know whats going on before you blindly throw insults where they dont belong.

You know exactly why I said what I did, next time, take your own advice and know what is going on before you blindly post that racist garbage again. Mistake or not, you post a link with an article you promote and endorse, didn't you read the title of the article? Open your eyes next time, I agree that you have been respectful enough since you came, and I have no problem with that, but if you are going to cite links from some racist Greek website which lies for its occupation then at least verify what the hell you are posting. I consider you a switched on Greek, so I still find it hard to believe you could not join the dots here and notice the discrepancy, but I will take your word for it, Spartan.

[Royal Hellas]

Enough with your propagandist lies you idiot, this will be your last warning. We do not "claim" a Macedonian identity, we are the Macedonian identity.

Those Eastern "ethnic" Greeks you keep harping on about are imported Asians of the Christian faith, most of whom could not speak Greek when they arrived in Europe, this is a fact. Being Orthodox Christians does not qualify them as "ethnic" Greeks.

Enough with your bullshit lies, I am becoming tired of reading the same garbage on every thread. Macedonians are Macedonians, Greeks are Greeks, end of story.

Don't read my posts if they annoy you.

I am sure many readers out there are learning about the intricacies of the Macedonian question.

Lets not forget the UN still hasn't signed off on this case yet.

[Royal Hellas]

Eastern Ethnic Greeks who are ethnically Macedonians who are ethnically Greek? Is that it? ummm, really?

Macedonians as ethnic Greeks is different from Ethnic Macedonians. Wake up and smell the geography.

You obviously are deliberately playing dumb or you have problems in comprehension.

Macedonians are viewed as ethnic Greeks from one point of view, albeit not yours.

The Greek position is that there is no Macedonian ethnicity.

The ethnicity aspect of the Interim accord is yet to be determined in the UN.

[Spartan]

You know exactly why I said what I did, next time, take your own advice and know what is going on before you blindly post that racist garbage again. Mistake or not, you post a link with an article you promote and endorse, didn't you read the title of the article? Open your eyes next time, I agree that you have been respectful enough since you came, and I have no problem with that, but if you are going to cite links from some racist Greek website which lies for its occupation then at least verify what the hell you are posting. I consider you a switched on Greek, so I still find it hard to believe you could not join the dots here and notice the discrepancy, but I will take your word for it, Spartan.

Yes I read the title, what I missed is that whoever posted it altered the link. Other people missed it as well.

What is a "switched on Greek"? , I dont understand.

Thank you for that at least. In time you will see that it was nothing more than an honest mistake.