Russian Influence in the modern Bulgarian Language

[Soldier of Macedon]

http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=EJ148194&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ148194

The Definite Article in Bulgarian and Macedonian

The enclitic status of the article in Contemporary Standard Bulgarian and Contemporary Standard Macedonian is investigated by comparing its junctural and accentual properties with those of undisputed enclitics in each language.

Can anybody get their hands on this text? It would be an interesting read no doubt. I am curious to know if the definite article was present in literature from the 12th century onwards.

[Soldier of Macedon]

http://openlibrary.org/b/OL1506284M/beginnings-of-the-scientific-study-of-minor-Slavic-languages

http://www.nlr.ru/eng/exib/cult/slovakia.html

Oblak, Vatroslav (1864 – 1896), Slovak philologist. Letter to Mikhail Fedorovich Raevsky. October 12, 1882. Cilli.
1 f., 228 x 144 mm, paper. Coll. 608. I.V. Pomialovsky. No. 3620.
Vatroslav Oblak was known for his research in the Macedonian, Serbian, Croatian and Slovenian dialectology.

http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/~ljubljan/newslets/l97-41.html

Oblak Symposium in Ljubljana
On December 12-13, 1996, the Filozofska Fakulteta of the University of Ljubljana hosted the Mednarodni simpozij Obdoja 17: Vatroslav Oblak in recognition of the 100th anniversary of his death. The conference was organized by Prof. Alenka Sivic-Dular of the University of Ljubljana, and attended by scholars from 10 countries. Papers were read by SSS members Marc L. Greenberg ("Vatroslav Oblak and Early Innovations in South Slavic Vowel Systems) and Breda Pogorelec ("Oblakov prispevek za zgodovino slovenskega knjiznega jezika. Gradivo in teorija"); Iskra Curkina could not attend, but appeared on the program. The conference coincided with an outstanding exhibit, "The Bible in Slovenia", at the Narodna galerija, which conference participants visited.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Very interesting.

[Delodephius]

I found an article in Slovenian about him. Vatroslav Ignacij Oblak. He was a young Slavist from Slovenia, died at age of 32 (1864-1896). He studied Slavic dialects, notably Macedonian, Croatian and Slovenian. By studying Macedonian dialects around Solun he found they are more similar to Old Church Slavonic than Slovenian, as was believed at that time. He was one of the first Macedonists, i.e. expert in Macedonian Studies.

[Soldier of Macedon]

How about Oblak, do you know him?

[Delodephius]

I know of Miklošić. He has done a lot of work with Old Church Slavonic.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Slovak, what do you make of the below?

http://www.oshchima.com/Historical%2...ents/hdoc1.pdf
HENRIK TUMA ON MACEDONIA AND THE MACEDONIANS (1398)
1912...Macedonia has 2,360,000 inhabitants, 52.4% of which, i.e. 1,182,000, are Slavs. There are half a million Turks, i.e. 22%. 230,000 Albanians, i.e. 5.7%, 80,000 Tsintsars or Wallachians, i.e. 3.6%, 70,000 Jews or 3%, and 54,000 Gypsies or 2.4%. The Greeks live in South Macedonia. The Turks mostly along the Vardar ravine and the Aegean Sea. The Jews live in Salonika. .....Of decisive significance for the realization of the South-Slav idea are the state and legal circumstances. Almost half of the South Slavs live in Austria-Hungary, i.e. 5, 700,000 Serbo-Croats and 1,200,000 Slovenes, while in the Balkans there live 3.5 million Serbs, 4 million .2 Bulgarians and 1,200,000 Macedonians. (1397)...Linguistically, all the Slav groups are related. The philologist, Mr Jagic, Ph.D., (1388) considers there are five dialects: Slovenian (kajkavian), Croatian (cakavian), Serbian (stokavian), Macedonian and Bulgarian. There literary languages have developed from these dialects; Slovenian, Serbian and Bulgarian. The South Macedonians (1388) have preserved the Old Slavonic language for us. The Holy Scripture, a gift by SS. Cyril and Methodius, was not written, as the philologist, Mr Miklosic, Ph.D., (1400) claims, in the language of the Panonian Slavs, but, as is natural and as was proved by the philologist, Mr. Oblak, Ph.D, (1401) in the language of the Slav apostles, i.e. in the Macedonian dialect from the vicinity of Salonika. ..

Do you know these scholars that the writer speaks of here?

[Soldier of Macedon]

There are copies of Slavonic texts older than Constantine's and Methodius' work (not the copies, the texts copies are of).

I was not aware of this until you informed us of that text in Latin letters, which I found extremely interesting as it is not something that is promoted (enough) when discussions take place concerning OCS and the Slavic languages.

[Delodephius]

I don't even understand what is he talking about. That someone invented "Slavic"? What does that mean? Language? If he by Macedonians mean Constantine Cyril and Methodius they (if they!) invented the Glagolitic alphabet, not a language. There was no conlanging (constructing languages) back then, as far as I know. And how could they invent a language half of Europe was already speaking back then? There are copies of Slavonic texts older than Constantine's and Methodius' work (not the copies, the texts copies are of).

[Soldier of Macedon]

Yeh, but because everyone believes that Bulgaria made it

Thats why

Only Bulgarians believe their own garbage.

[macorules94]

Yeh, but because everyone believes that Bulgaria made it

Thats why

[Risto the Great]

I'm pretty sure Macedonia invented slavic. Not coz I think so, but I have proof.
.... snipped

C'mon man, you have limited your choice to 2 modern languages (Macedonian and Bulgarian).

The first time I posted amongst the likes of SoM/Slovak which was ??? 4 years ago ... I felt quite humbled by their commitment to historical revelations and certainly read much more than I posted.

In reference to your post, why not critically analyse OCS before commenting futher?

[Delodephius]

In the above texts, Macedonian (OCS and modern) have the 'da' (да) conjunction, whereas the rest do not. It seems to be one of the main characteristics that distinguishes Macedonian from Moravian, at least in the above examples anyway.

The above text does distinguish, but that is because the Moravian Lord's Prayer is a reconstruction. It is supposed to be based on the tradition of the Lord's Prayer used in Slovak, Slovene and Czech. But the conjunction da nonetheless exists in the given languages or dialects. Slovak literary language uses it seldom but in older texts it exists, as it does in many dialects. It is that instead of a clause da bude an imperative one is used buď. (I can't remember how the former first clause is called. Any help?) But its truth, we don't exactly know which clause the Moravian Lord's Prayer used, only the ones used later. It is as easily possible that the clause with da was used but fell out of favour or the imperative clause was considered more appropriate.

[macorules94]

I'm pretty sure Macedonia invented slavic. Not coz I think so, but I have proof.


Jas
Vas
Nas

I
You guys
We

See? its all same. but in Bulgarian..

Az
Vas
Nas

Why not Vaz and Naz?

then, ours is

Kako
Taka

But in bulgarain..

Kak
Taka

lol

also,

Tie
Nie
Vie

and in Bulgarian,

Tija
Nie
Vie

Why not Vija and Nija

So their language makes like, no sence, and they rekon they made it

lol

Koga?
Toga/Togas

but Bulgarian:

Kogato?
Toga

all retared

Ne Ima = Nema

Ne ima = Njama

see what I mean, makes no sence

[Delodephius]

The text is in Macedonian. Moravian doesn't have the sound шт, щ (sht).