Russian Influence in the modern Bulgarian Language

[AlexanderTheGay]

ATGay, I asked a question based on sound logical arguments and you gave me that insipid answer. It was a stupid answer from a stupid person with a stupid name. Why?

Maybe you are right. This name is really stupid.

[Risto the Great]

ATGay, I asked a question based on sound logical arguments and you gave me that insipid answer. It was a stupid answer from a stupid person with a stupid name. Why?

[AlexanderTheGay]

ATGay, your English appears to be functional.
Can you understand Olde English of circa 1000 AD?

I bet you can.

[Risto the Great]

As I understand from your previous posts OCS is a macedonian language, but isn't it strange that it contains some strange letters - ь,ч,ѣ,ъ and others.

ATGay, your English appears to be functional.
Can you understand Olde English of circa 1000 AD?

[AlexanderTheGay]

Dear Alexander, macorules94 was in fact a Greek pretending to be a dumb Macedonian. Are you related to him/her?

Sorry, no relation.

[AlexanderTheGay]

Yeah, because you don't know Slovak. Argumentum ad ignorantum.

But lets compare Slovak, Slovenian and Macedonian Lord's prayer with OCS.

Отьчє нашь, (OCS)
Оче наш, (Mk)
Отьчє нашь, (OCS Moravian)
Otče náš, (Sk)
Oče naš, (Sl)

їжє єсі на нєбєсѣхъ,
кој си на небесата,
їжє єсі на нєбєсѣхъ,
ktorý si na nebesiach,
ki si v nebesih,

да свѧтітъ сѧ їмѧ Твоє,
да се свети името Твое;
свѧті сѧ їмѧ Твоє,
posväť sa meno tvoje,
posvečeno bodi tvoje ime.

да прідєтъ цѣсарьствіє Твоє,
да дојде царството Твое;
пріді цѣсарьство Твоє,
príď kráľovstvo tvoje,
Pridi k nam tvoje kraljestvo,

да бѫдєтъ волѣ Твоѣ
да биде волјата Твоја
бѫді волѣ Твоѣ
buď vôľa tvoja,
zgodi se tvoja volja,

ѣко на нєбєсє ї на зємлі;
како на небото, така и на земјата.
ѣко на нєбєсє ї на зємі;
ako v nebi, tak i na zemi.
kakor v nebesih tako na zemlji.

хлѣбъ нашь насѫштьнъ даждь намъ дьньсь,
Лебот наш насушен дај ни го денес,
хлѣбъ нашь вьшьдѣіші дазь намъ дьньсь,
Chlieb náš každodenný daj nám dnes
Daj nam danes naš vsakdanji kruh

ї оставі намъ длъгъи нашѧ
и прости ни ги долговите наши,
ї отъпѹсті намъ грѣхъи нашѧ
a odpusť nám naše viny,
in odpusti nam naše dolge,

ѣкожє ї мъи оставлѣємъ длъжьнікомъ нашімъ;
како што им ги проштаваме и ние на нашите должници.
ѣкожє ї мъи отъпѹшчаємъ грєшьнікъмъ нашімъ;
ako i my odpúšťame svojim vinníkom.
kakor tudi mi odpuščamo svojim dolžnikom,

ї нє въвєді насъ въ їскоушєніє,
И не не воведи во искушение
ї нє въвєді насъ въ їскоушєніє,
A neuveď nás do pokušenia,
in ne vpelji nas v skušnjavo,

нъ їзбаві нъи отъ лѫкаваєго;
но избави не од лукавиот,
нъ їзбаві нъи отъ нєпріѣзні;
ale zbav nás Zlého.
temveč reši nas hudega.

ѣко твоє єстъ цѣсарьствіє ї сіла ї слава въ вѣкъі.
зашто Твое е царството и силата и славата во сите векови.
ѣко твоє єстъ цѣсарьство ї моць ї слава въ вѣкъі.
Lebo tvoje je kráľovstvo, moc i sláva teraz i vždycky i na veky vekov.
/

Амінь.
Амин.
Амінь.
Amen.
Amen.


The above is the original OCS similar more to Macedonian than to the OCS mixed with Moravian. The latter is more similar to Slovak and Slovene. Slovak would be even more similar because some words were changed during various reforms, for example nepriazeň (нєпріѣзнь) is now Zlé; vezdajší (вьшьдѣіші) is každodenný; cisárstvo (цѣсарьство) is kráľovstvo; hriech, hrešnik (грѣхъ, грєшьнік) is vina, vinník. Mostly synonyms.

As I understand from your previous posts OCS is a macedonian language, but isn't it strange that it contains some strange letters - ь,ч,ѣ,ъ and others.

[Risto the Great]

Dear Alexander, macorules94 was in fact a Greek pretending to be a dumb Macedonian. Are you related to him/her?

[AlexanderTheGay]

I'm pretty sure Macedonia invented slavic. Not coz I think so, but I have proof.


Jas
Vas
Nas

I
You guys
We

See? its all same. but in Bulgarian..

Az
Vas
Nas

Why not Vaz and Naz?

then, ours is

Kako
Taka

But in bulgarain..

Kak
Taka

lol

also,

Tie
Nie
Vie

and in Bulgarian,

Tija
Nie
Vie

Why not Vija and Nija

So their language makes like, no sence, and they rekon they made it

lol

Koga?
Toga/Togas

but Bulgarian:

Kogato?
Toga

all retared

Ne Ima = Nema

Ne ima = Njama

see what I mean, makes no sence

Looks quite the same to me

[Pelister]

Excerps taken from "The Beginning of Written Slavic" by Horace G.Lunt

Not entirely related, but in the general region of interest.

The importance is that 863, despite many unanswered questions, marks the beginning of written Slavic culture

The important thing is that all sources attribute to Cyril and/or Methodius the invention of the Slavic alphabet and to the brothers and their immediate pupils the translation of the major liturgical books thereby the establishment of a new written language

What does it mean to be "Greek"?

We must assume that the ambitious Slav in the Byzantine Empire would strive to be accultured - to become a Christian adept in Greek

Surely many Greeks, like Constantine and Methodius, had grown up speaking Slavic

Politics in Translation ?

Constantine was able to render the sense in natural, unforced Slavic, although naturally enough, with Hellenisms (spot the anachronism)

It was not his fault that later scribes constantly "corrected" the translation with a slavish mechanistic literalism that eventually led to a wooden word for word reproduction of the official Greek versions.

Greek versions are curiously absent in relation to the early works of Cyril/Methodius ?

their impact (through their Moravian mission) is recorded in Western sources as a dangerous but passing encroachment on the German bishoprics, while Greek chroniclers make no mention at all. It is the Slavs who have clung to the pious memory of the holy brothers ...

The earliest and ONLY Greek source emerges, in the 11th century, about 200 years later. It was written by a Greek, known as Theophylactus, the Archbishop of Ohrid, 1084-1107.

Many scholars are convinced that he merely adapted an originally Slavic biography written shortly after Kliment's death

The possibility of late compilations, of fictions, of bad copyings and redactions, all come into play.

Then we have this:

The ONLY late Greek source.

Known as the "Bulgarian Legend" it is a twenty five page Life of Kliment, a pupil of Methodius who was bishop in Macedonia, 893-916

Why is the term "Bulgarian" used for the first time nearly two centuries later, and by a Greek clergyman ?

It looks as though Greek clerics near Byzantium preferred to identify Christianity with Greek language and culture, and baptism with a desire for Hellenization

one admits that the political overtones, particularly in regard to anti-Slavonic forces, are very strong indeed

Oldest texts written in what alphabet ?

the oldest and most archaic texts are written in Glagolitic

Finally,

it is only very recently that the need has been recognized to investigate separately the history of Slavonic, from the Cyrillo-Methodian Old Church Slavonic, through the Macedonian, Bulgarian Kievan and other recensions ... for the historian, the Moravian mission of Cyril and Methodius is an intriguing puzzle in diplomatic and ecclesiastical jurisdictional struggles ...

[Risto the Great]

Bulgarian before Russian influence ------> Macedonian language, from the Macedonians.

Merci ;-)

[indigen]

Re: Russian Influence in the modern Bulgarian Language

Ilya Talev [Bulgarian-American Linguist]:
"....It is not accurate to say that Bulgarian was "Russified". Such a
term would imply that there was a pre-existing Bulgarian literary language,
which later underwent a metamorphosis of "Russification". The Bulgarian
literary language (as opposed to the living dialects) was formed under
a very strong Russian influence....It was a voluntary process, which
took place well before the creation of any Bulgarian state. The result
today is that perhaps 65% of all the 150,000 words in the Bulgarian
language are of Russian origin...."

IT

Ilya Talev
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001

[Soldier of Macedon]

Not sure if they all have the same origin, but it is interesting that the feature exists in other languages beyond the Danube such as Romanian and Scandinavian.

[Risto the Great]

The enclitic definite article is used by Scandinavian languages as well as classical Armenian, Romanian and Albanian. Can we try to list who else puts the definite article at the end of the word (enclitic)?

Where did this influence come from?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Courtesy of Daskalot.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/definite_article_macedonian-306321.pdf

Interesting text, but does not discuss anything concerning the origin of the definite article.

[Soldier of Macedon]

http://www.jstor.org/pss/306321

That is a part of it.