Deconstruction of the term Bulgar/B'lgar/Bugar/Voulgar!

[Soldier of Macedon]

Ancestors of the "bulgarian" Macedonians

As there are other threads that go deep into the reasoning as to why Macedonians of the 19th and 20th century identified as 'Bulgarians' in some instances, this thread will demonstrate who these "bulgarian" Macedonians considered their ancestors.

1845: Russian Chronicler Victor Grigorovich, who travelled among these "bulgarian" Macedonians, has the following to say -

In all areas I visited, I have not heard other names but the names of Alexander the Great and King Marko. Both are alive in the memory of the people…Still, the memory of Alexander the Great is the more established in the people.

1852: Macedonian writer Jordan Dzinot identified as a 'Bulgarian' or 'Slav-Bulgarian' in his writings, yet his ancestry, although called 'Bulgarians' by him, pre-date the Bulgar hordes of the 7th century -

Bulgarian children! In the times before SS Cyril and Methodius, the most known people in the Eastern Empire were Bulgarians: Such as Emperor Justinian.........and Emperor Basil the Macedon was a Bulgarian.......

1866: Bosnian writer Stefan Verkovich, who also speaks of the 'Bulgarian' reference regarding Macedonians, recorded the following about these people -

The Marvatsi have tales and folklore passed down through generations from the distant past, which could fill the gaps in general and local Slavic history, as well as clarify and correct many inaccurate and troubling opinions and arguments among ancient and more recent historians about the people living in the Balkan peninsula, about their forefathers, the ancient Thracians, Macedonians and Illyrians…The folksong a very unusual and significant which come down from a distant past. They also relate a song about Alexander and Bucephalus; about his crusade in Asia and war against Darius and Porus….

1868: Bosnian writer Stefan Verkovich, after having travelled through Macedonia and recorded such rich culture and songs, was thus compelled to write the following to the Zagreb newspaper 'Dragoljub' -

The Slavs, and not the Greeks, are the forefathers of the civilisation

1878: The background of the Macedonian Rebel Committee is intertwined with the Russian invasion of Turkey in Europe and the confidence inspired in the Balkan Slavs such as the Serbs, Bulgarians and Macedonians. Although sometimes referred to as a 'Bulgarian' movement by some writers (namely those from Bulgaria), the ancestry cited in the prescripts again betrays the Bulgarian manipulation of history -

With the wish to cast off the Turkish bondage from our fatherland, each and every one of us stands ready to sacrifice whatever is necessary. We have rebelled as champions of freedom. By shedding our blood throughout the fields and forests of Macedonia, we serve as the Macedonian army of Alexander the Great once did. We fight for freedom and our motto is: "Freedom or Death!"

1892: Macedonian writer Kuzman Shapkarev, who also often identified as a "bulgarian" Macedonian, considers the following his ancestors -

During our childhood my father would telling us many stories about King Marko and about Tsar Alexander – Alexander the Great.

1903: Nikola Karev during an interview for a Greek paper, is clear about what the ancient Macedonians meant to him - ......

I am Macedonian

. The Greek interviewer asks,

direct descendant to Alexander the Great?

Karev responds,

Yes

.

1923: Macedonian writer Krste Misirkov, who had his Macedonian identity often contested and compromised by his Bulgarian peers, and who at times identified as a Bulgarian himself, wrote the following with regard to the ancestors of the Macedonians -

King Mark is the son and pride of Macedonia and one of the three great conquerors who spread the name of their land far beyond its territories: (1) Alexander of Macedon spread the glory of Macedonia as far as the Central Asian rivers of Amu Darya [Oxus] and Syr Darya [Jaxartes], and also to India and the Indian Ocean; (2) The holy Cyril and Methodius spread the Macedonian word and script among all the Slavic peoples, and (3) King Marko placed under his authority and under that of the Macedonian muse all popular singers and peoples on the Balkan Peninsula, including you, the descendants of his sworn enemies......

The key point here is simple: The people that produced these texts often referred to the Macedonians as 'Bulgarians' during the era cited above. However, despite their 'Bulgarian' terminology, it is clear from the texts that these so-called 'Bulgarians' from Macedonia considered as their ancestors the historical figures of Macedonia, and not Bulgar Khans from Asia. Yet another reason why the 'Bulgarian' name was eventually dropped due to being rendered useless for the national aspirations of the Macedonians.

If the 'Bulgarian' name and so-called Bulgarian origins from Asia were dear to the Macedonians, they would have been retained by the Macedonians the same way the Macedonian name and local Macedonian history was.

[makedonin]

So it is well after the time of Saint Cyril, probably written by some monk and his rendition of Saint Cyril's actions in life.

Yes in deed. put it somewhere X or XI century, not sure exactly.

[Soldier of Macedon]

So it is well after the time of Saint Cyril, probably written by some monk and his rendition of Saint Cyril's actions in life.

[makedonin]

Which year or century is it from?

Here what it say's:

Comments
the author of the e-Edition
of Solunska legend "



"Solunska legend is autobiographic story of St. Cyril of Christianity by the Bulgarians and the Bulgarian alphabet invention. Besides all the other merits of this document, it is also one of the many direct evidence izvekovnoto presence of Bulgarians in Cappadocia, Asia Minor. In the transcript found in the village of Turnovo around town Kriva (Tarnovski copy) The story begins thus: "He was born in Cappadocia moe ...". The other two copies known to us (copy Konstantinov - found by x vazrozhdenetsa Jordan. Konstantinov - Dzhinot and copy Tikveshki) begin as follows: "It was a legend in Cappadocia moe ...".
"Solunska legend" shows us that so-called "Gothic" to Christianity, became the territory of modern Bulgaria during the IV century Christianity is actually Bulgarians, and that "Gothic" Vulfila Bishop (born in Cappadocia) is the identity of St. Kurilo (vulf = Kurt = wolf), "Gothic" writing is nothing other than the Cyrillic alphabet. This link in a peremptory manner proved his works Dr. Gancho Tsenov.

Source: here

Translated with Google Translate.

On the other hand, I have seen this on Wikipedia:

Yordan Hadzhikonstantinov-Dzhinot found a manuscript of a Bulgarian medieval story "An oration of Saint Cyryl, how he baptized the Bulgarian people"', called "Solunska legenda" ("A legend from Thesalonika"). It was published in Glasnik magazine in 1856.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yordan_Hadzhikonstantinov-Dzhinot

I can't tell you which Century it is so far.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Which year or century is it from?

[makedonin]

Makedonin, what is the original source of that text quoted by the Bugar?

Do you mean this Bugar?:

(Й. Иванов, "Български старини из Македония", БАН, 1970 г. ).'

I posted the link in the quote:

Online Link for the Solun Legend

Here is it as a picture:

[Soldier of Macedon]

Makedonin, what is the original source of that text quoted by the Bugar?

[makedonin]

Have you heard about the Solun Legend?

Here is what those Medieval writers considered as Bulgarian:

"The Bulgarian heard of me, the Great Knez Desimir of Moravia, Radivoi Knez of Preslav and all of the Knez bulgarian gethered together around Solun, and fought for the great blood and talked: send us a one of ours. So they sent me. The Bulgarians received me celebrant and brougth me in the town Ravn on the river Bregalnica. I wrote them their letter(characters). I teached them, and many of them converted on their own. They swore to give the Pravoslav Faith of Christ further. "(free translation)

It is from the book:
(Й. Иванов, "Български старини из Македония", БАН, 1970 г. ).'
Online Link for the Solun Legend

So the Moravian Knez Desimir....Knowing that Cyril and Methody were sent to Moravia region in the Czech Republic to teach them the "Slavic" letter, than this text would make the Czech's being Bulgarians.

This text shows that the word Bulgarian had no Ethnic meaning, since the Moravian Knez, and the other "Slavic" speaking Knez were also considered as Bulgarian.
A Bulgar tried to dump this conclusion, pointing to the Great Moravia region in Serbia, but this would be noticed in the text as Desimir the Great Moravian Knez, which is not.

And even so, that would make the Serbs of Great Moravia a Bulgarians, which in this case can't hold the water. And since the "Other Knez" were also Bulgarian, and the Bulgarians had only one the only reasonable conclusion would be that, the term Bulgarian in deed refered to the "Slavic" spaking peasants, commoners and their rules.

[Risto the Great]

Very damaging stuff.

[makedonin]

As Misirkov put's it:

The Greeks did not distinguish between the slavic Nations and all the Slavic people, specially the part fo them, who was making the troubles for them during the Turkish rule and were under their Jurisdiction (church), they were hating them and calling them with the name "Bulgarian" wich for tham was dispicable name.

All in all, those lovable people were for them Hondrokephalos Bulgaris, cause they were not wanting to become descendants of Pericles.

And he wonders why the Macedonian Comettee as he call's it was killing those double faced Greek Priests, the tool for Hellenisation.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Being neither Turkish nor Greek, we called them Bulgarian, but their language is not Bulgarian, but the Macedonian dialect, and I found lovable people among them........

The Macedonian dialect of what? He stops short of referring to the language of those "lovable people" as simply Macedonian. I doubt very much that those "lovable people" went around calling their language a "Macedonian dialect", to them it was simply Macedonian.

Not matter what (lies) he mentions in other parts of the text which exhibit his confusion (or denial), they are all betrayed by the above quote.

Not Turkish, not Greek, not Bulgarian, but Macedonian-Makedonski-Makedonika.

[makedonin]

Well that is very interesting TM.

Confirmation of Misrikovs statement by wonna be "Greek".

Besides their awareness of the difference between the Macedonians and Bulgarians, they kept calling them Bulgarians. Derogative designation....

His statement even gains momentum, since he spoke spoke Turkish and the Macedonian "dialect" and he could tell the difference.

Good one TM

[TrueMacedonian]

Here's something I think belongs in here.







Just like the front cover of the book states, "Know you not that the value of what is said depends not upon the speaker, but upon the listener?" (By the way this book was published in 1913 when propaganda in Macedonia was peaked.)
As you read through this book you realize that it is mired in racist ideological diatribe that the modern "greek" government has embedded in the population of not just modern "greece" but most of the world. Like the Nazis once said; If you tell a lie long and loud enough, especially a big lie, people will eventually start to believe it.

Here is a person who lived in Macedonia with the supposed "greeks", Vlachs, Albanians, Turks, and the supposed Bulgarian Macedonians. Well.....as illustrated in the pages I posted on here these people do not really speak Bulgarian but a Macedonian Dialect. And that the author, George Demetrius, states "we called them Bulgarian". Calling them this does not necessarily make them this.

Here's Krste Misirkov's statement at the time of why the Macedonians were labelled "bulgarians"-(Thanks Makedonin )

We saw in the greeks spiritual masters and religious leaders. We had the same attitude towards them as we had towards the Turks. The greeks were exploiting us in the church and wanted under the Turk rullership to achieve their goal which they were not able to do before their rule. To assimilate us, they were avoiding to call us with our national name.

They were calling us Risyani (Christians), and we approved: of course brother, we are Risyani, what else should we be! When they got angry at us, and they would call us stubborn Bulgarians: we would say: it is true, we are Risyani, but we are not that educated, as the greeks! Our heads do not understand; we are Bulgarians.

With other word, in Turkish time we were approving and agreeing with everything that the Turks and the Greeks were telling us.

But the Turks, with designating us: Rayati and Giuri, they did not see us as people of certain Nationality, but with relation to them as a masters and people of orthodox religion.

With same respect we were using this name's between us. That means, that the Turks were not recongnizing Nations in their country. So we were doing the same.

The Greeks did not distinguish between the slavic Nations and all the Slavic people, specially the part fo them, who was making the troubles for them during the Turkish rule and were under their Jurisdiction (church), they were hating them and calling them with the name "Bulgarian" wich for tham was dispicable name.

This name was expressing the Greek detest, and not the honor of the bulgarians, that's why it's epithet was "hondrokefalos".

Translated from: http://www.misirkov.org/sostauala.htm


The brainwashed George Demetrius, whatever his true background may be, displayed the contradiction relevant even in todays society.

[Risto the Great]

We just have to read what our people said before.... they knew it, it was in their time, before this stupid Nationalism have screwed the things up.

Well put.

How ridiculous. One of the oldest nations (Macedonia) failed to grasp the modern pale imitation version of nationalism and has suffered ever since.

[makedonin]

You are welcome guy's, but this is old stuff.

We just have to read what our people said before.... they knew it, it was in their time, before this stupid Nationalism have screwed the things up.