Philiki Eteria founders most likely Vlachs & Slav

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  • Amphipolis
    Banned
    • Aug 2014
    • 1328

    #91
    Originally posted by Carlin View Post
    It was among the Vlah merchants of Odessa that the Philike Hetairea was founded, and revolutionary literature was produced on the Vlah printing presses of the Pului brothers in Vienna.

    Link:
    http://www.academia.edu/302560/_The_..._the_Evidence_
    Cough... Cough...
    That is easier to check, since the founders of the "Friends' Company" were... only three (3) and then a fourth was added. Xanthos, Skoufas, Tsakalov and Anagnostopoulos. Was ANY of them Vlach?

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    • Carlin
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2011
      • 3332

      #92
      Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
      Cough... Cough...
      That is easier to check, since the founders of the "Friends' Company" were... only three (3) and then a fourth was added. Xanthos, Skoufas, Tsakalov and Anagnostopoulos. Was ANY of them Vlach?
      I'm afraid the answer is yes.

      Comment

      • Carlin
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2011
        • 3332

        #93


        HellenoVlachs first in the foundation of the Friendly Society, a founding member of Tirnavos Tsakalof with most members of this organization was preparing the revolution of enslaved nation..

        Source: Γιωργης Εξαρχος - ''Οι Ελληνοβλαχοι Αρμανοι'' ("The Hellenovlahoi Armanoi")


        For fair use.
        Last edited by Carlin; 05-19-2016, 03:28 PM.

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        • Amphipolis
          Banned
          • Aug 2014
          • 1328

          #94
          Originally posted by Carlin View Post


          HellenoVlachs first in the foundation of the Friendly Society, a founding member of Tirnavos Tsakalof with most members of this organization was preparing the revolution of enslaved nation..
          As far as I see, none of these five was Vlach.

          First of all, lets’ take Tsakalov, the less famous of them. I couldn’t find any indication that he was Vlach. He was born in Ioannina (where his mother comes from). His father indeed comes from Tyrnavos where Vlachs (specifically the so-called Arvanito-Vlachs) DO exist, but I couldn’t find anything specific. His father's name was Tekelis or Tsakalos and he made his name Russian (Tsakalov) when he moved to Russia.

          Regarding the second paragraph neither Kolokotronis (Peloponnesian), Karaiskakis (Saracatsanos, a Greek nomadic tribe), Botsaris (Souliote, a separate more Hellenised Arvanite clan) or Androutsos (Arvanite father, mother from Preveza) are Vlachs. Actually, you can find more detailed discussions for each one of them in the forum, using the forum search engine.

          So, are we sure this is not from the book… “We are all Vlachs”? Is this a new fashion that any ass suddenly calls everybody a Vlach and then another ass calls everybody an Arvanite? Any source or justification would be appreciated (I mean by these authors, not you). Maybe I’m missing something.

          A few posts ago, an author mentioned a local legend from a Vlach village that Kolokotronis family (remotely?) comes from it. Well, that is a legend. It doesn’t seem to have any value. At least, Kolokotronis didn’t have any knowledge of such ancestry; and still that wouldn’t make him a Vlach.


          ====
          Last edited by Amphipolis; 05-19-2016, 02:10 PM.

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          • Carlin
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2011
            • 3332

            #95
            Quote: "First of all, lets’ take Tsakalov, the less famous of them. I couldn’t find any indication that he was Vlach. He was born in Ioannina (where his mother comes from). His father indeed comes from Tyrnavos where Vlachs (specifically the so-called Arvanito-Vlachs) DO exist, but I couldn’t find anything specific."

            1) Arthur Evans (in an open letter to The Times on October 1st, 1903.):

            The truth is that a large number of those described as Greeks are really Roumans. Till within recent years Hellenism found a fertile field for propaganda among the representatives of the gifted Romance speaking race of the Pindus region. Today Janina has quite forgotten its Rouman origin, and has become a center of Hellenism.

            2) http://www.farsarotul.org/nl11_1.htm

            Tyrnavos, a town to the north, is perhaps 60 percent Vlach, mainly those from Avdhella and Samarina. [--> 60 percent Vlach-speaking?? And this was towards the end of the 20th century.]

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            • tchaiku
              Member
              • Nov 2016
              • 786

              #96
              Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post



              Bookmarked.

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              • Risto the Great
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 15660

                #97
                Of course, now they all speak perfect ancient Greek. The best experiment ever.
                Risto the Great
                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

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                • Liberator of Makedonija
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2014
                  • 1597

                  #98
                  Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                  Of course, now they all speak perfect ancient Greek. The best experiment ever.
                  I thought the Modern Greek language was completely unintelligible with the Ancient Koine tongue? It certainly appears that way when I look at the two side-by-side anyway.
                  I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                  Comment

                  • Amphipolis
                    Banned
                    • Aug 2014
                    • 1328

                    #99
                    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                    Of course, now they all speak perfect ancient Greek. The best experiment ever.
                    Aren't you tired of speaking about things you can't understand? Almost nobody can speak ancient Greek in Greece now, especially perfectly. A University Professor of Ancient Literature certainly can, I’m not sure about his students. Common modern Greeks (like me) are not even educated to "speak" it, only to read and understand it.

                    On the contrary, foreigners DO try to learn how to speak it, as we usually do with foreign languages. The problem is that they use the so-called Erasmian pronunciation and they're not sure which era or type of Greek they speak. The overall results are hilarious and they certainly cannot lead to an effective contact with a modern Greek.. or an ancient Greek (in case of time-travel). Still, they could contact if they would write down what they're trying to say.

                    Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
                    I thought the Modern Greek language was completely unintelligible with the Ancient Koine tongue? It certainly appears that way when I look at the two side-by-side anyway.
                    The term Common (Koine) Greek refers to Bible Greek, not the classical Ancient (Attic) Greek. This is much closer to Modern Greek. Furthermore, everybody was/is familiar with it, as all Church liturgies and hymns are (more or less) in this language.

                    Still, people do not practice to form sentences and speak this way, only to read and understand it.


                    ==
                    Last edited by Amphipolis; 04-14-2017, 12:57 AM.

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                    • tchaiku
                      Member
                      • Nov 2016
                      • 786

                      Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                      Aren't you tired of speaking about things you can't understand? Almost nobody can speak ancient Greek in Greece now, especially perfectly. A University Professor of Ancient Literature certainly can, I’m not sure about his students. Common modern Greeks (like me) are not even educated to "speak" it, only to read and understand it.

                      ==
                      I did look once to those ancient texts. Ancient Greek has no grammar structure it is literally impossible to understand them nearly as close you can understand Latin text. You need a translator while you are reading the text.
                      Last edited by tchaiku; 04-14-2017, 07:48 AM.

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                      • Risto the Great
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 15660

                        Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
                        I thought the Modern Greek language was completely unintelligible with the Ancient Koine tongue? It certainly appears that way when I look at the two side-by-side anyway.
                        That's right. I was being sarcastic. Most can't understand shit. And the ones that do understand have gone to great lengths to affirm their antiquity connection. But they have thrown in a whole bunch of really old words to make them feel good about themselves. Add a whole bunch of ancient sounding first names and hey presto, you are related to the ancient Greeks and everyone else are just barbarians.
                        Risto the Great
                        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                        Comment

                        • tchaiku
                          Member
                          • Nov 2016
                          • 786

                          Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                          That's right. I was being sarcastic. Most can't understand shit. And the ones that do understand have gone to great lengths to affirm their antiquity connection. But they have thrown in a whole bunch of really old words to make them feel good about themselves. Add a whole bunch of ancient sounding first names and hey presto, you are related to the ancient Greeks and everyone else are just barbarians.
                          Other than the alphabet, few words and pronunciations like ''us'' ''os'' but that is it. Even Latin is easier to learn than ancient Greek.

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                          • Dejan
                            Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 591

                            I really don't know much about the greek language. If the ancient and modern languages are unintelligible to each other, what is it that makes them related? Is it merely location they were spoken?

                            Is this something that future research would show that they are different languages that use the same alphabet? Something along the lines of the Macedonian language being used with the Greek alphabet?
                            You want Macedonia? Come and take it from my blood!

                            A prosperous, independent and free Macedonia for Macedonians will be the ultimate revenge to our enemies.

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                            • tchaiku
                              Member
                              • Nov 2016
                              • 786

                              Originally posted by Dejan View Post
                              I really don't know much about the greek language. If the ancient and modern languages are unintelligible to each other, what is it that makes them related? Is it merely location they were spoken?

                              Is this something that future research would show that they are different languages that use the same alphabet? Something along the lines of the Macedonian language being used with the Greek alphabet?
                              They are related to a certain degree, at least compared to other languages but not as much let's say Italian and Latin are.

                              Comment

                              • Amphipolis
                                Banned
                                • Aug 2014
                                • 1328

                                Originally posted by Dejan View Post
                                I really don't know much about the greek language. If the ancient and modern languages are unintelligible to each other, what is it that makes them related? Is it merely location they were spoken?

                                Is this something that future research would show that they are different languages that use the same alphabet? Something along the lines of the Macedonian language being used with the Greek alphabet?
                                Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                                They are related to a certain degree, at least compared to other languages but not as much let's say Italian and Latin are.
                                This discussion may help, though it concludes the opposite.

                                It would seem like an obvious (and superficial) generalization: Italian's "obvious" ancestor is Latin, Modern Greek's obvious ancestor is Ancient Greek, Latin and Ancient Greek were used (very loos...


                                Iíve never studied Latin, but it is considered a very easy language, though more complicated than English. Greek (modern or ancient) is way far more complicated.

                                In English nouns have two forms, in modern Greek 10, in Bible Greek 12 in Ancient Greek 18. Thatís because except of singular, plural (and dual) we have 5 or 6 cases Also nouns have genres and adjectives appear in all genres.

                                In English verbs have two or three forms, in Greek (modern or ancient) about 36.

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