Mother language - Macedonian, found in Greek report from 1911!

[Bratot]

Recently, we obtained another official Greek document from the beginning of the 20th century in which Greek bureaucrats confirm the existence of the Macedonian nation and the Macedonian language.

Dimitar Ljorovski Vamvakovski, a historian at Macedonia's Institute of National History obtained the original document, dates it at year 1910-11. He explained that the document was written by the school principal for Greek propaganda in Macedonia and is a report on the pupils of the Bitola school center. It lists which pupil comes from what village and what is his or her mother tongue.

This is yet another "raw" proof that should be analyzed further by Macedonian historians and added to complete the bigger picture of Macedonian history.

Mr. Vamvakovski previously helped discover the Order of the Lerin prefecture of 1954 which outlaws the use of the Macedonia language in Greece.

We expect additional new discoveries to unmask further the propaganda efforts aiming at negating the Macedonians, and express out gratitude for the research conducted by Macedonian historians.


From Macedonian Spark.

[makedonin]

Interesting Bratot...

I am sure that Greeks are able to ignore this by stretch of their imagination... business as usual.

[Daskalot]

Great stuff Brate!
Do you have a higher resolution version of the scan? Can we see the complete page?

[Bratot]

Unfortunatelly we have to wait for the complete publication to be released, as it was promissed by Ljorovski.

[Bratot]

Btw, could you translate the Macedonian version in proper English, please?

[Daskalot]

I will do it, it will be ready in a couple of hours.
I would like to request some assistance of our Greek speaking members in translating the document posted above into English. Voltron are you keen to assist?

[George S.]

Amazing one minute we are recognized as macedonians & NEXT WE DON'T EXIST.This is proof that policy towards the macedonians was concocted as they went on the run.
If we can rember they called macedonia the occupied territory.Why would one call it occupied if it was liberated & was greek all the time.THere is so much inconsistencies in the greek way of treating macedonians as if they don't exist.But many instances there is ample proof that they have slipped or were unaware & they referred to us as macedonians.

[Voltron]

I will do it, it will be ready in a couple of hours.
I would like to request some assistance of our Greek speaking members in translating the document posted above into English. Voltron are you keen to assist?

I can assume you can read Greek by the letters, although I dont expect you to be able to understand what you read. But you may know the village names better than I do.

The columns are in order:
First-Last Name, Age, Location, Father's Occupation, Municipality, Language, Year Scholarship, School Class Grade, Location of Studies, Food - Pounds - Unit of Currency

I believe this is some type of food ration report for males in the school year of 1910-1911

The profession for the first person Athanasios Grigoriou is a Priest but language is shown as Macedonian. Katranitsa is the Location and Moglenon is the Municipality.

Under the Municipality field you can see the different names. Moglenon,Grevenon,Pelagonias,Prespon,Koritsas,Kast orias and Ioaninnon.

[Voltron]

Under the 3rd column you have names like Katranitsa, Mega Stylianon, Monastirion, Resna, Nevoliani, Florina, Eleousa, Gavresi, etc.

My question is why are the names Greek based ? I thought the Hellenization process was after 1910-11. They all end in "ou" except for Dalipis ( No 10 )

[Daskalot]

What name would a person hold if baptized by a Patriarchist priest in the late 19th early 20th century?
Thank you Voltron.

[makedonin]

My question is why are the names Greek based ? I thought the Hellenization process was after 1910-11. They all end in "ou" except for Dalipis ( No 10 )

The Hellenization process was pushed through the Patriarchist church. The names were key feature how to make people look Greek like. You can see that there are also Vlach speakers with hellenized names too.

The full strength of this process was only after the partition in 1913 when places also were renamed.

[Onur]

Under the 3rd column you have names like Katranitsa, Mega Stylianon, Monastirion, Resna, Nevoliani, Florina, Eleousa, Gavresi, etc.

My question is why are the names Greek based ? I thought the Hellenization process was after 1910-11. They all end in "ou" except for Dalipis ( No 10 )

It`s evident that you are ignorant to your country`s most of the issues. I posted a msg here b4 about the actions of Greek bandits supported by Greek priests between 1880s to 1912. These are the documents from the official Ottoman archives. It includes all kinds of oppression, beatings, religious conversion by force, rape and murders on Macedonians, Turks, Vlachs, Pomaks, Jews, Albanians etc. and to the protestant Greek community too. There are testimonies and statements of the victims and detailed reports;

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showpost.php?p=51391&postcount=79

[Lorenzo]

одлична работа браво момци

[Pelister]

The Hellenization process was pushed through the Patriarchist church. The names were key feature how to make people look Greek like. You can see that there are also Vlach speakers with hellenized names too.

The full strength of this process was only after the partition in 1913 when places also were renamed.

It was a common practice among the Serbian and Bulgarian jurisdictions on Macedonian territory to change the names of Macedonians in their official records. This served a number of purposes, the main reason they did it was to misrepresent the national and ethnic identity of the demographic to the Powers. Just another naming system, that entirely ignores the Macedonians, and puts a very carefully placed 'veil' over the truth. It was a common practice for a Macedonian to have a 'Baptismal name' depending on the jurisdiction, but more importantly on the attitude of the local priest (who was usually a Macedonian), and a Macedonian name, used by themselves and their families and friends, which they would be known by for the rest of their lives. So for example, a lady named Mara by her family and friends (might be baptised in a Patriarchist Church by the name 'Paraskeva' because she was born on a Friday ...etc).

[Daskalot]

Btw, could you translate the Macedonian version in proper English, please?

Here is my take on the text provided here: http://macedonianspark.com/mk/istori...25-------1911-

Recently, we got at our disposal another official Greek document, confirming the Macedonian nation and Macedonian language by Greek officials.

According to Mr. Dimitar Ljorovski Vamvakovski, a historian from the Institute of National History, whom helped us obtain the original document, the document is from the year 1910-11 it was compiled by a school superintendent of the Greek propaganda in Macedonia, a report on the school of Bitola and its students, it states from which village the students comes from and what was their native language.

This is another cruel document that should be further analyzed by the Macedonian historians and incorporated into a broader context.
Previously, Mr. Dimitar Ljorovski Vamvakovski helped in finding the order made by the Lerin prefecture from 1954 that prohibits the Macedonian language in Greece, which was reported in the news by the Macedonian media.

We are expecting new discoveries that will disclose propaganda denying the Macedonians, in this regard we express our gratitude and support for the research made by the Macedonian historians.

From Makedonska Iskra.

It is not a word for word translation, but it is true to its original.
Chini ili ne?