Your Opinion - What % is the Greek component of modern Greeks?

[Stojacanec]

Latin was as widespread as Greek during Roman times. Why do you think that Latin split into several languages, yet Greek only has dialects?

Voltron, you can see from this where Latin was split and formed several languages. So anyone from (presumably) western Europe will declare they all spoke Latin at some stage but realise they are (today) completely different ethnic races due to what has been passed down from their ancestors and not to mention the formation of modern borders.

Compare that to the modern Greek that claims a common ancestry and ethnicity from past to present no matter what ethnic makeup along the way.

[Risto the Great]

So anyone from (presumably) western Europe will declare they all spoke Latin at some stage but realise they are (today) completely different ethnic races due to what has been passed down from their ancestors and not to mention the formation of modern borders.

I do not even think this can said unequivocally. I am very sure dialects existed back then and there was still a case of "lingua franca" back then with Latin being the dominant language throughout much of Europe.

[Stojacanec]

I do not even think this can said unequivocally. I am very sure dialects existed back then and there was still a case of "lingua franca" back then with Latin being the dominant language throughout much of Europe.

I think your right Risto. I must have adopted a greek mentality (brain freeze) for a moment. I'm sure in antiquity only a certain noblemen or clergy were educated in the lingua franca of the day.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Turkish ? we filtered them out during the population exchange. So that gets disqualified by default.

Actually, you filtered them in during the population exchange. There were hundreds of thousands of Christians from Asia that spoke Turkish as their native language.

Armenian ? Sure how many do you think were enough to make an impact.

Hard to determine how many because your government has historically been too racist and paranoid to conduct a proper census based on ethnic and linguistic backgrounds. But there were certainly a number of them that were shipped off from Asia during the population exchange and made their way to Greece.

Roma ? Roma will always be Roma they are a clan group and no matter how well they integrate they stick to their own.

Whatever the case may be, they are also a part of Greece's population, even though officially they are passed off as Greeks.

Who else ? What other Christians can you think of ?

You have Albanian, Vlach, Macedonian, Bulgarian, Turkish, Armenian and Roma Christian groups. How many more do you want? Should I also include the English, Germans, Russians, Italians, French and other westerners who also settled in Greece after its creation? You already know this. The only disagreement here is on percentage.

No, Tsakonian is Doric.

Ok, let's explore this further. Can you show me a sentence comparison between Doric and Tsakonian? Are you aware of the Albanian influence and how it has impacted this dialect?

Yes, it did split. Does that mean that there are no native Italians in Italy from Roman and Pre-Roman times ?

Not at all. It means that while Latin was used as an official language, it was also largely used as a spoken language in places like France, Spain, Portugal, etc, which is the reason why they developed into separate languages. I am not denying that Greek was used as a spoken language in some areas where Koine had spread, but it certainly wasn't as widespread in such a manner when compared with Latin. That is why you only have Greek dialects rather than Greek languages. It is not because ethnic Greeks predominated wherever Greek was spoken, it is because the local populations continued to speak their own native languages alongside Greek. On the other hand, the people of what would become France, Spain, Portugal, etc, adopted Latin in favour of their native languages and made it their own - at least in most cases.

Its common sense SOM. Thats all.

It's wishful thinking, and nothing more.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

EM i suppose you are right we have been doing it for a while.That's not to say the greeks are immune their turn will come.

To be honest, I don't think it is in our interests if the Albanians made their move in Greece. Greece has caused us a lot of problems, but we only have ourselves to blame for what the Albanians are currently doing in Macedonia.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Let's be fair here. I think it's ridiculous to say that no 'real' Greeks exist in modern Greece. And by a Greek component I assume that you refer to those who are somewhat descendants of the ancient Greeks. That aside, a large percentage of so called 'Greeks' living in Egej would not fulfill the true criteria of being a Greek. Of course the Greek government considers anyone who can say yasou as having Greek origins, which forms the '100% pure Greek' myth.

The population exchange in Egej such as the prosfygi, in conjunction with any locals/natives who have been completely assimilated would unsurprisingly form a large percentage of the population in the North. The South of Greece has not been as heavily exposed to such circumstances, which leads me to believe that not all Greeks are victims of a false identity.

[Daskalot]

Turkish ? we filtered them out during the population exchange. So that gets disqualified by default.

No Voltron, as SoM said you filtered them in and you filtered the ethnic Greeks with Muslim faith the Valaades out. Why?

[Daskalot]

^ There are enough to take notice Daskalot. Go to Argos then go to Pyrgos and you can easily hear the difference. This is just one example.

Can you please give us the official names of these so called dialects that you mention?

[Daskalot]

The South of Greece has not been as heavily exposed to such circumstances, which leads me to believe that not all Greeks are victims of a false identity.

EM, you need to study history a bit closer, the same thing has happened in the South as in the North, just a couple of hundreds of years prior.
Look for Slavic placenames, the plague, resettlements by the East Romans and the settlements of the Arvanites. Just for starters. :-)

And ask the question why Thessaly was known as Megali Vlachia.

The Greeks have so many loose ends, so they themselves cannot even grasp it.

[Stojacanec]

....and before the Ottomans came the Venetians who settled along the coastline and islands. So the Greeks have no trouble in labelling us as Slavs but they conveniently have gaping holes when justifying their greekness due to the settlment of the Ottomans and Ventians just to name a few.

[Voltron]

Actually, you filtered them in during the population exchange. There were hundreds of thousands of Christians from Asia that spoke Turkish as their native language.

Your referring to Karamnlides. We went over these people a number of times. I find it hard why a Turk would want to be a Christian there were no benefits in being one. Anyway, wont bother with that subject again.

Hard to determine how many because your government has historically been too racist and paranoid to conduct a proper census based on ethnic and linguistic backgrounds. But there were certainly a number of them that were shipped off from Asia during the population exchange and made their way to Greece.

Certainly a number doesnt help. There impact is probably next to none.

Whatever the case may be, they are also a part of Greece's population, even though officially they are passed off as Greeks.

Your deviating to citizenship now. Roma is Roma and you guys have your fair share as well. If not the highest in the Balkans but you wont see me mentioning it.

You have Albanian, Vlach, Macedonian, Bulgarian, Turkish, Armenian and Roma Christian groups. How many more do you want? Should I also include the English, Germans, Russians, Italians, French and other westerners who also settled in Greece after its creation? You already know this. The only disagreement here is on percentage.

I mentioned Arvanite and Vlach already. We mentioned Karamanlides, and even Armenians. You going to bring up the Franks as well ? These are all negligible numbers and it doesnt get any better as you go North.

It's wishful thinking, and nothing more.

No, its wishful thnking we are lesser a number than realisticly speaking. Probably a knee jerk reaction you have against some of our nationalists over there. Its ok, I dont take it personal.

[Voltron]

....and before the Ottomans came the Venetians who settled along the coastline and islands. So the Greeks have no trouble in labelling us as Slavs but they conveniently have gaping holes when justifying their greekness due to the settlment of the Ottomans and Ventians just to name a few.

Stojancec, if Greeks label you as Slavs its because you speak it. If our language was Slavic based than we would be Slavs as well. Has nothing to do with Genetics.

[Bill77]

Stojancec, if Greeks label you as Slavs its because you speak it. If our language was Slavic based than we would be Slavs as well. Has nothing to do with Genetics.

Well this is why we call you Turks. Because your language comprises of many Turkish words.........And also the fact that it has plenty to do with Genetics.

[Onur]

Your referring to Karamnlides. We went over these people a number of times. I find it hard why a Turk would want to be a Christian there were no benefits in being one. Anyway, wont bother with that subject again.

For the similar reasons of why some Greeks in Crete and Macedonia became muslims. Central Anatolian Turkish christians converted right after the Mongols destroyed Seljuk empire. Eastern Romans was always using forced christianization policies upon hopeless and poor people by using missionaries. There was about 50-60 years gap between the destruction of Seljuk and creation of Ottoman empire and Eastern Roman missionaries actively baptized as many Turks possible between that time. This was the best trick of Romans; Baptize the barbarians to tame them, so they obeys to the patriarch/pope and integrates into the Roman society. Vatican did same to the Germans in the west, Constantinople did the same to the Bulgars, Slavs and to the Turks.

I see no point to deny this fact while eastern Romans themselves wrote in their chronicles about how they allowed settlement of Gagauzes around today`s Varna/Bulgaria after they converted them. Konia, Karaman was the capital of Seljuks for 200+ years and after Mongolian army devastated the place, eastern Roman missionaries came and offered them protection if they convert to christianity. All these events are written by your so-called Greeks of Byzantine and in 15-16th century, western travelers relates same story in their diaries and says that all the christians of central Anatolia are these converted Turks and even in 16th century, they say that all the christians speaks only Turkish in there.

[Voltron]

No Voltron, as SoM said you filtered them in and you filtered the ethnic Greeks with Muslim faith the Valaades out. Why?

What the hell is a Valaades ?
Anyway, who the hell wants them. They sold themselves off to a religion that is foreign and no longer belong to our Ethnos. On what grounds can we claim them ? By blood alone ? Nobody can do that in the Balkans.

EM, you need to study history a bit closer, the same thing has happened in the South as in the North, just a couple of hundreds of years prior. Look for Slavic placenames, the plague, resettlements by the East Romans and the settlements of the Arvanites. Just for starters. :-)

And ask the question why Thessaly was known as Megali Vlachia.

No Daskalot, EM is not wrong. You are completely blowing things out of proportion. I would be the first one to mention the Slavs but after that you get carried away. The Arvanites although significant to our ethnos did not alter the general population as you would make us believe. I dont know any for example and I know quite a few people and been here over a decade.